3-handed 10/20 NL
 

3-handed. You're on the button and have both your opponents covered.

SB seems tilting. BB is a good player who isn't afraid to gamble.

You have QQ and make it 80. SB immediately moves in for about 1500 total. BB thinks for a few seconds and goes all-in for about 2k total.

Do you call or fold? And if you think it's a no-brainer call/fold, please say so.

Regards

Re: 3-handed 10/20 NL
 

As you have both your opponents covered, I would go All in:- try and win it there and then, only scared of two hands, AA, KK and equal with AK, I recon they both got big aces, or JJ, TT, but probably one of each. Call and hope for the best.

If you are lucky, BB might think SB is tilting, and you are attempting to steal the blinds, and so you could easily be up against a lots less.

What they have?

ZCAHV82

Re: 3-handed 10/20 NL
 

sorry, Thought this was a tournament section, might want to ignore what I said above!

ZCAHV82

Re: 3-handed 10/20 NL
 

hmmm, the only thing that even remotely wants me to fold here is the fact that you've only got $80 invested in the pot thus far . . . SB's bet really seems like a medium pair you've got beat, and to me, BB coming over the top screams AK/AQ making this exact read and trying to shut you out of the pot (or perhaps vice-versa).

It's also very possible that SB has you on a steal, and BB is trying to pick him off and shut you out at the same time . . .

QQ is a monster three-handed. Given that and your description of your opponents, I'm calling here way more often than not.

Re: 3-handed 10/20 NL
 

I don't see how you could possibly fold here. You probably can rule out the possibility of the SB having AA or KK right off the bat with a high degree of certainty given the size of his reraise. Your hand plays well against the range of hands BB might hold, assuming that he also puts SB on a large range with little possibiilty of a truly top-end holding. Even when you are against AK and 99 you have a nice gamble here, and sometimes you will be up against two lower pairs or a pair and AQ or something.

Re: 3-handed 10/20 NL
 

I think this is an easy call, you likely have the sb dominated, and the bb could be pushing with AK, AQ, or something you dominate as well like JJ.

Re: 3-handed 10/20 NL
 

although calling in NL is never fun, you're getting 2:1 and BB doesn't need aces or kings to make this play. as such I think it's a call.

Re: 3-handed 10/20 NL
 

I agree with what all the posters said. I thought button had an easy call getting a bit less than 1:2, knowing SB would likely not have AA or KK, and BB is likely to know that.

SB held 99 and BB AA. I wasn't the button by the way, but the button, who is a good player, said he folded QQ. I didn't believe him, but wanted to check if some of you thought folding QQ actually is a decent play given the situation.

Regards

Re: 3-handed 10/20 NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
hmmm, the only thing that even remotely wants me to fold here is the fact that you've only got $80 invested in the pot thus far . . . SB's bet really seems like a medium pair you've got beat, and to me, BB coming over the top screams AK/AQ making this exact read and trying to shut you out of the pot (or perhaps vice-versa).

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would the BB call here with AK or AQ if he thought the SB had a medium pocket pair???

Re: 3-handed 10/20 NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hmmm, the only thing that even remotely wants me to fold here is the fact that you've only got $80 invested in the pot thus far . . . SB's bet really seems like a medium pair you've got beat, and to me, BB coming over the top screams AK/AQ making this exact read and trying to shut you out of the pot (or perhaps vice-versa).

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would the BB call here with AK or AQ if he thought the SB had a medium pocket pair???

[/ QUOTE ]

See original post: "BB is a good player who isn't afraid to gamble" . . . [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: 3-handed 10/20 NL
 

I think this is a call. SB is probably on a lower middle pair, a weak ace, or bull with that gross over bet. BB makes the call with a strong ace or middle pair(You said he paused, so that probably negates the possibility that he's ahead of you, imo). Even if SB wins you aren't down much by taking down BB.

Re: 3-handed 10/20 NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
BB thinks for a few seconds and goes all-in for about 2k total.

[/ QUOTE ]

I fold. This think in this situation is so often KK or AA. The think is "hmmm.... will calling here make it more likely that he will call? nah. that might even spook him. hmmm, if I push, maybe he'll think I'm isolating tilter and call with hands that would fold if I just call. OK I push." A gambler like this with TT almost always pushes pretty quickly.

If he is a real gambler, the think sometimes means AJ or AQ that he thought long and hard about.

I guess that's what it comes down to. If you think he might play AJ or AQ here, call. If you think he needs AK or a pair, then fold.

I'm pretty much ignoring SB's push here.

Re: 3-handed 10/20 NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
hmmm, the only thing that even remotely wants me to fold here is the fact that you've only got $80 invested in the pot thus far

[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh. Always makes me sick to read "you only have xxx invested." Sick.

Re: 3-handed 10/20 NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
I guess that's what it comes down to. If you think he might play AJ or AQ here, call. If you think he needs AK or a pair, then fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

if he would play AK folding must be an error.

Hand 1: 35.8563 % [ 00.36 00.00 ] { QQ }
Hand 2: 47.4877 % [ 00.46 00.02 ] { AA-KK, AKs, AKo }
Hand 3: 16.6560 % [ 00.15 00.02 ] { JJ-77, AKs-AQs, AKo-AQo }


edit: pasted in the wrong sim

Re: 3-handed 10/20 NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
I fold. This think in this situation is so often KK or AA. The think is "hmmm.... will calling here make it more likely that he will call? nah. that might even spook him. hmmm, if I push, maybe he'll think I'm isolating tilter and call with hands that would fold if I just call. OK I push." A gambler like this with TT almost always pushes pretty quickly.

[/ QUOTE ]

SB is on tilt, but let's still give him credit for something - maybe AK or AQ or decent pocket pair if he wants to tilt-gamble like this.

BB knows this, so he can isolate him with a lot of hands also with pocket pair and AK or AQ to "take a good gamble"

BB also knows that it's also very unlikely that our hero here could have a big hand. I mean, this is 3 handed here.

I like BB play to call and hopefully isolate down SB. But hero has to know this and this is what hero can use to his advantage.

I call. I wouldn't say it's a no brainer decision, but given how the players are, their state of mind, what BB knows about SB and what hero knows about BB and how hero has the great advantage of being last to act here, I call.

If wrong..so be it!

Lawrence

Re: 3-handed 10/20 NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I guess that's what it comes down to. If you think he might play AJ or AQ here, call. If you think he needs AK or a pair, then fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

if he would play AK folding must be an error.

Hand 1: 35.8563 % [ 00.36 00.00 ] { QQ }
Hand 2: 47.4877 % [ 00.46 00.02 ] { AA-KK, AKs, AKo }
Hand 3: 16.6560 % [ 00.15 00.02 ] { JJ-77, AKs-AQs, AKo-AQo }


edit: pasted in the wrong sim

[/ QUOTE ]

my statement
that was not the point
read it again

Re: 3-handed 10/20 NL
 

it all depends if you want to gamble. you could be up against overcards or a higher pair. you could be a small favorite to a big underdog. with only 80 invested and an opponent who seems like he has some leaks in his game I being waiting for a better spot.

Re: 3-handed 10/20 NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
with only 80 invested

[/ QUOTE ]

once again
money invested
who cares
how much invested
not me

Re: 3-handed 10/20 NL
 

love the new posting style.

straight poetry homie.

Re: 3-handed 10/20 NL
 

no brainer call.

but if you have a brain, you fold.

Re: 3-handed 10/20 NL
 

Have not read any answers to your post but I would be very
suprised if anyone says call. Autofold in my opinion

Re: 3-handed 10/20 NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
if he would play AK folding must be an error.

Hand 1: 35.8563 % [ 00.36 00.00 ] { QQ }
Hand 2: 47.4877 % [ 00.46 00.02 ] { AA-KK, AKs, AKo }
Hand 3: 16.6560 % [ 00.15 00.02 ] { JJ-77, AKs-AQs, AKo-AQo }

[/ QUOTE ]

This information fails to consider the side pot.

If these hand ranges are accurate, Hero's total equity will be a little over 2k.

4500*0.36 (main pot) + 1000*0.40 (side pot) = 2020.

Given that your pot equity is 2020 and you have 1920 to call, it is +EV to call.

Re: 3-handed 10/20 NL
 

for the pot equity calculations, there needs to be a way of factoring AK as actually less likely here than AA or KK.

i know this might seem counterintuitive as there are more ways to make Ak but as flynn and diablo are pointing out that is the more likely holding.

Re: 3-handed 10/20 NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
no brainer call.

but if you have a brain, you fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

HAHAHA. Perfect. Yes, I know it's easy for me to say now, since I've seen the results, but I was stunned by all the advice to call. When someone "seems" to be tilting, and then moves over the top with a massive overbet on any street, you need a lot more to go on than the appearance of tilt. When I'm genuinely on tilt, I take advantage of it with seemingly rash decisions, and when the opportunity to fake tilt presents itself, I take it, in case I pick up a monster in the next 2 or 3 hands (a leftover move from my blackjack days).

The other guy moves in, too, and that does make you believe you can beat one of them, since he could conceivably do this with JJ, AK, and maybe TT, among the hands you are beating now. So I admit it's somewhat enticing, 3 handed. But I would never, ever call in that spot, and I'm glad to see that a couple guys on here agree with me.

Not mentioned (I think) is the fact that you'd hate to get the "tilter" off tilt by doubling his AK up, for a few dollars in EV.

Re: 3-handed 10/20 NL
 

[ QUOTE ]

HAHAHA. Perfect. Yes, I know it's easy for me to say now, since I've seen the results, but I was stunned by all the advice to call. When someone "seems" to be tilting, and then moves over the top with a massive overbet on any street, you need a lot more to go on than the appearance of tilt. When I'm genuinely on tilt, I take advantage of it with seemingly rash decisions, and when the opportunity to fake tilt presents itself, I take it, in case I pick up a monster in the next 2 or 3 hands (a leftover move from my blackjack days).

[/ QUOTE ]

Though there's a chance you are right,
I think you play way too tight,
The SB is obviously on tilt,
And BB is gambling right down to his kilt,
QQ is a monster hand,
So I still stay shove those chips in and take a stand.

Lawrence

Re: 3-handed 10/20 NL
 

its not like he was getting run over all night.

why does he need to take a stand?

Re: 3-handed 10/20 NL
 

I have to say im a bit surpised by all the people that say fold. The BB is described as "a good player who isn't afraid to gamble."

Even if you constrict his hand range to AA, KK and AK calling shows a profit.

The game is 3-handed, the SB is on tilt and BB isnt afraid to gamble? I cant see folding QQ here...

Re: 3-handed 10/20 NL
 

this hand can swing from being auto-call to auto-fold purely based on small differences in one's appraisal of BB

Re: 3-handed 10/20 NL
 

if you think you are a better player then the BB fold...why flip a coin with someone you can outplay?
if you think you aren't a better player then the BB fold and go find a new game.

Re: 3-handed 10/20 NL
 

I don't understand this. Now, I am entirely on the side of fold, but it's a matter of +EV. You don't wait for big edges, if you have an edge here, this is your edge over all, playing the small ones.

But you don't have an edge here so fold.

Re: 3-handed 10/20 NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand this. Now, I am entirely on the side of fold, but it's a matter of +EV. You don't wait for big edges, if you have an edge here, this is your edge over all, playing the small ones.

But you don't have an edge here so fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm walking out the door so i don't have time for an extended debate, but hopefully someone can step up to defend my position which is:

if you have a big edge over this opponent, why put it all in preflop (and thus not be able to exploit that edge any further) when it is very likely that the best situation you are facing is a coinflip...follow?

even if you hypothetically did have a small edge in this situation i would still advocate a fold.
why take the very small edge when it effectively takes the place of a much larger edge.
i believe it was sklansky who talked about not taking a bet today if losing it will stop you from taking a much better bet tomorrow.
and since this is a RESTRICTED buy-in game, if he loses this hand he will no longer be able to cover the player over whom he has a big edge...follow?

Re: 3-handed 10/20 NL
 

Well, you're not doubt out the door, so hopefully someone can step up for you here.

Why do you think this is a restricted buy in game? I think most $10/$20 NL games are unrestricted. Most $5/$10 games around here are uncapped.

Also, if the very best situation you could be facing is a coinflip, this is likely not +EV.

Re: 3-handed 10/20 NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why do you think this is a restricted buy in game?

[/ QUOTE ]

because he assumed
like me
it was online

Re: 3-handed 10/20 NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
because he assumed
like me
it was online

[/ QUOTE ]

Very nice.

Do you ever mess around with structured verse (beyond haiku-style and suchlike)?

Re: 3-handed 10/20 NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
because he assumed
like me
it was online

[/ QUOTE ]

Very nice.

Do you ever mess around with structured verse (beyond haiku-style and suchlike)?

[/ QUOTE ]

well sometimes i do
and sometimes i dont
but mostly free verse
yes that would be true

Re: 3-handed 10/20 NL
 

I think you're a huge dog here considerably more often then your a huge favorite. MAYBE the BB calls with jacks, AQ would be pretty damn loose, and your racing AK. I think given your edge, if there is indeed a minute edge here, is small enough that you can saftely get away from the hand.