Flamed for raising. Was I out of line?
 

Hey all,
Just wondering how well I played this hand. I took a lot of heat from MP1 for my flop raise. Any thoughts on how I played the hand, particularly the flop.

Thanks in advance.

PokerStars 5/10 Omaha/8 (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (10.40 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (9.70 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

River: (12.70 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 15.70 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
UTG+1 has Ac 5c 2h Jd (Low: 8, 7, 5, 2, A | High: flush, nine high).
MP1 has Ad 9d As 3d (Low: 8, 7, 5, 3, A | High: one pair, aces).
Hero has Ah Th Qc 2c (Low: 8, 7, 5, 2, A | High: flush, ace high).
Outcome: Hero wins 11.77 BB. UTG+1 wins 3.92 BB. </font>

Re: Flamed for raising. Was I out of line?
 

ignore 'em. people complain about preflop agression all the time in o8. but only stupid people. personally i wouldn't have 3 bet with your hand preflop. but i would have played postflop the same.

Re: Flamed for raising. Was I out of line?
 

You played the hand correclty.

You are getting flamed by someone who thinks he/she is entitled to win the pot (or at least 1/2) with a crappy AA combo.

WTG for jamming. I would have done the same thing and not look back.

NJC

Re: Flamed for raising. Was I out of line?
 

Never take anything seriously from somebody who just lost a pot.

Re: Flamed for raising. Was I out of line?
 

... and your line on the whole hand is fine. Well done.

Re: Flamed for raising. Was I out of line?
 

Well played.

Re: Flamed for raising. Was I out of line?
 

Thanks for all the replies. I have been playing less than a year so I still have a ton to learn. The player in question was a "table captain" and went on to offer "advice" to other players as the session went on (the hand in question was a short time after I sat down).

Thanks again.
AnyAce

Re: Flamed for raising. Was I out of line?
 

What do people think of capping the flop? You're drawing to both the nut high and low. The player after you already cold called two bets so he's probably staying in.

There's likely another A2 with all the raising, but the potential to have him come along and get quartered is nice. Or is the risk of getting quartered yourself if you miss your flush an issue?

Re: Flamed for raising. Was I out of line?
 

You raised with the nuts two ways - what a fish.

[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: Flamed for raising. Was I out of line?
 

I personally wouldn't have raised, but I'm a fairly passive PF player in O8. I don't think you did anything wrong. That was a pretty solid hand - nut low potential and lots of great high features.

I don't understand why people get so pissed about people raising the "wrong" hands, regardless of whether it's O8, HE, etc. You can bet however the hell you want. If we all raised with the same Tier 1 hands everytime, the game would be way too predictable. Just like when people get all upset when their AA gets cracked. If you were obligated to win when you get AA, why deal the rest of the cards?

Sure, I get annoyed when someone makes a retarded play and sucks out on me, but it's cards. People can do what they want.

Re: Flamed for raising. Was I out of line?
 

I would have capped it.

Re: Flamed for raising. Was I out of line?
 

I certainly wouldnt have raised the flop. You have the NUT flush draw, and the NUT low draw. Why are you raising the player to your immediate right who just led out? In most cases, although your getting more money into the pot, your eliminating players because theyll have to call 2 bets cold. When you have 2 big draws to the nuts, you want as many people in the pot as you can. Therefore, you shouldnt have raised the bettor right before you.

Didnt see what you did turn or river, so cant comment.

Re: Flamed for raising. Was I out of line?
 

Preflop: I would rather cold call in hopes of suckering more people into the pot in case you flop well.

Flop: I would rather call here to try to encourage UTG+1 to stay in the pot. With a pair in your hand I think a raise is a good play because it encourages UTG+1 to drop, but with a draw I would rather play this particular street passively.

Turn: This is when I would start to jam.

River: Keep jamming.

Re: Flamed for raising. Was I out of line?
 

Turn your chat off.

Nice hand,
Joe Tall

Re: Flamed for raising. Was I out of line?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Turn your chat off.

Nice hand,
Joe Tall

[/ QUOTE ]

Best. Reply. Ever.

Re: Flamed for raising. Was I out of line?
 

i think MP1 was mad he misplayed his hand in the first place, if i had his hand i would've 3 bet before the flop and then i see a call from you and utg+1. MP1 has to realize that one of you has to have the Ace of hearts because he doesn't and when the 3rd heart comes on the turn to me its a easy laydown but not for MP1. just be glad MP1 is in your game. also i wouldve capped the flop.

Re: Flamed for raising. Was I out of line?
 

Thanks Joe. Good plan [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Flamed for raising. Was I out of line?
 

I WOULD OF CALLED THE PREFLOP AND 4-BET THE FLOP.

Preflop: Hero is CO with A, T, Q, 2.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, MP1 calls, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets (I WOULD OF CALLED), 3 folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (10.40 SB) 5, K, 7 (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, MP1 3-bets, Hero calls(I WOULD OF 4 BET), UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (9.70 BB) 9 (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets(FINE), UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

River: (12.70 BB) 8 (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets(FINE), UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 15.70 BB

NICE WIN!!!!

PAUL

Re: Flamed for raising. Was I out of line?
 

Joe is right. And that is the real crux of the matter, when you get down to it.

People in this world seem to have developed passive/aggressive personality disorders. Yeah, I'm playing amateur shrink here, since I'm doped up and have an excuse [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Anyway, I have noticed that the world has become a super PC place, where you are never, ever supposed to tell the truth, no matter what. Not only is it considered not politically correct to tell the truth, but it is considered rude and just downright wrong (at times, even illegal). You are supposed to live in this dream world, where everything is perfect if you just pretend it is.

So my point, long as ever, is that people use Internet poker, and the Internet in general, in order to vent. Since they can't say to their co-worker, "Hey, buddy, I do all the work around here while you flirt with the girls in the next building, and I'm constantly covering for you. You are a lazy, no-good SOB, and I'm gonna bust you to the boss," they get on the Internet and act like total scum.

They not only play badly, but then proceed to abuse everyone else at their table in order to "feel better about themselves." Naw, it never works, but somehow they can sleep at night, feeling okay about ignoring the woman who was getting mugged on the street and yelling for help, then jumping online and abusing a few innocent people trying to have a good time.

The real world is not perfect, the real world is not PC, the Internet is a magnet for passive/aggressive behavioral disorders, and you will be better off if you never, ever have chat enabled.

Felicia [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Flamed for raising. Was I out of line?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Joe is right. And that is the real crux of the matter, when you get down to it.

People in this world seem to have developed passive/aggressive personality disorders. Yeah, I'm playing amateur shrink here, since I'm doped up and have an excuse [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Anyway, I have noticed that the world has become a super PC place, where you are never, ever supposed to tell the truth, no matter what. Not only is it considered not politically correct to tell the truth, but it is considered rude and just downright wrong (at times, even illegal). You are supposed to live in this dream world, where everything is perfect if you just pretend it is.

So my point, long as ever, is that people use Internet poker, and the Internet in general, in order to vent. Since they can't say to their co-worker, "Hey, buddy, I do all the work around here while you flirt with the girls in the next building, and I'm constantly covering for you. You are a lazy, no-good SOB, and I'm gonna bust you to the boss," they get on the Internet and act like total scum.

They not only play badly, but then proceed to abuse everyone else at their table in order to "feel better about themselves." Naw, it never works, but somehow they can sleep at night, feeling okay about ignoring the woman who was getting mugged on the street and yelling for help, then jumping online and abusing a few innocent people trying to have a good time.

The real world is not perfect, the real world is not PC, the Internet is a magnet for passive/aggressive behavioral disorders, and you will be better off if you never, ever have chat enabled.

Felicia [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

You, my friend, kick azz.

For the others, my chat has been off for 6 months, unless I see someone I know in the game.

Great response,
Joe Tall

Re: Flamed for raising. Was I out of line?
 

I would have capped the flop and then put in my notes the table captain was a -ev player , and to make sure and laugh at him everytime I was seated with him.

In short you played it perfectly (aside from not capping one of the best flops you can hope for). 99% of the idiots that will tell people how to play at an omaha table have absolutly no clue what they are doing.

Re: Flamed for raising. Was I out of line?
 

This has nothing to do with how you played the hand, but its just a sidenote: UTG+1 did not have a flush for the high hand. As we all know, you must use two of your hole cards to make either hand in Omaha. His high hand was a pair of 5's.

Re: Flamed for raising. Was I out of line?
 

Why cap the flop when you can cold-call and encourage an A3 hand to call? All for jamming the turn though obviously.

Re: Flamed for raising. Was I out of line?
 

MP1 is hilarious. Try playing with him more often, he obviously doesn't like money.

I would've played it the same way, nice hand.

Re: Flamed for raising. Was I out of line?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why cap the flop when you can cold-call and encourage an A3 hand to call? All for jamming the turn though obviously.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because if UTG (whom raised pre-flop) will call 3 bets he will call 4. How many times do you see people lay down their hands after throwing 3 small bets into a round in fear of calling one more ? Plus he may put you on jamming a set which would give him even more reason to call with A3 on the turn or river when the bets are more expensive.

Thats just my way of looking at it thow.