Top 2 on a one-suited flop
 

$3-$6 game last night. Table is fairly weak-tight from what I've observed, a dream game, really. I limp in late position behind two other limpers (one EP, one MP) with
K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. BB checks, and we see the flop:

K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

BB bets, EP limper raises, MP limper folds. 7 1/2 SB in the pot, and it's 2 to me. I don't have any specific reads on either player still in the hand, as I've only been at the table for 15 minutes or so.

Your play?

Re: Top 2 on a one-suited flop
 

I'd raise while it was still SB to see what happens...just called, the guy is probably drawing for a fourth heart. Capped, he's probably got the flush, but I'd call anyway to see the turn.

Either way, if the 3-bet slows them down you might get a free river shot at your boat

Re: Top 2 on a one-suited flop
 

i'm inclined to say calling is your worst option.

there's probably nothing wrong with folding, as at least one of these shmucks has a heart.

but you don't know a lot about them, and you very well may have the best hand right now.

so i'm inclined to say raise this. if it's capped coming back to you and led into you on the turn, you can probably release. or you get c/r on the turn.

but i'm not sure. perhaps it's actually best to call here and see a non-heart turn, as you're not sure your raise is "charging" your opponents.

if the game is incredibly passive, i'd release. otherwise, i flip-flop between calling and raising and ultimately decide that, as i said before, i think calling is probably your worst option, and i raise and proceed with caution.

i'm relatively certain this situation has a proper answer that i'm whiffing on because i got 3 hours of sleep and i should be heading to class now.

ciao.

Re: Top 2 on a one-suited flop
 

This is tricky i think im 3 betting and if capped im ditching on the turn if my boat doesnt hit. You can just randomly say someone has a flush on a 1 suit flop just because there was a bet and a raise this could easily be Mid pair for BB and TPTK for EP guy. Although based on your reads EP might be a set and you might be drawing to 2 kings. so this is really read dependant. But with no reads I'm three-betting and getting away on the turn if capped on the flop

Re: Top 2 on a one-suited flop
 

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i'm inclined to say calling is your worst option.


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Yeah, at no point did I consider calling, because I still had the original bettor to hear from. If he three-bets and EP caps, I've just thrown away two bets for nothing.

Re: Top 2 on a one-suited flop
 

I don't think calling is as bad of an option as you think. Actually it may be the best option.

Re: Top 2 on a one-suited flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think calling is as bad of an option as you think. Actually it may be the best option.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this. If a non heart falls on the turn, do you raise if it's 1 bet to you?

Re: Top 2 on a one-suited flop
 

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i'm inclined to say calling is your worst option.

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Folding is the worst option by far.

Re: Top 2 on a one-suited flop
 

I agree with chief I think calling is the best option. I want see what the turn action is before I let this hand go. If a non heart falls and it is one bet to you I would raise here and fold to a 3 bet if it was two cold to me might let it go right there. If your turn raise is just called and another non heart falls on the river I would probably call one bet or check it through.

Re: Top 2 on a one-suited flop
 

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I agree with this. If a non heart falls on the turn, do you raise if it's 1 bet to you?


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Yes. I may reconsider if there's a 3-bet on the flop though.

edit...I'd likely still raise the turn though.

Re: Top 2 on a one-suited flop
 

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I would probably call one bet or check it through.


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I think checking the river through sucks if there isn't much action on the turn and two non hearts fall.

Re: Top 2 on a one-suited flop
 

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[ QUOTE ]
I would probably call one bet or check it through.


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I think checking the river through sucks if there isn't much action on the turn and two non hearts fall.

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You might be right the only hands you beat are one pair hands. If they paid off on the turn they will pay off on the river. If I'm check raised I'm folding.

Re: Top 2 on a one-suited flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
$3-$6 game last night. Table is fairly weak-tight from what I've observed, a dream game, really. I limp in late position behind two other limpers (one EP, one MP) with
K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. BB checks, and we see the flop:

K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

BB bets, EP limper raises, MP limper folds. 7 1/2 SB in the pot, and it's 2 to me. I don't have any specific reads on either player still in the hand, as I've only been at the table for 15 minutes or so.

Your play?

[/ QUOTE ]

Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop. <font color="red">3-bet the flop </font>. Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.Fold preflop.

Re: Top 2 on a one-suited flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think calling is as bad of an option as you think. Actually it may be the best option.

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I disagree. A big [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is gonna call, so raise it up when you're ahead. The odds of fropping a frush are pretty low. Slow down on the turn, not the frop.

Re: Top 2 on a one-suited flop
 

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If I'm check raised I'm folding.


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I agree that this is probably the right play if check/raised on the river.

Re: Top 2 on a one-suited flop
 

I wouldn't play this hand, but I don't see how limping in here is a huge mistake if you are a decent postflop player.

Re: Top 2 on a one-suited flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree. A big [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is gonna call, so raise it up when you're ahead. The odds of fropping a frush are pretty low. Slow down on the turn, not the frop.

[/ QUOTE ]
A big [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] will call a turn raise also. I never said I'd call the flop because I'm worried about a made flush. But you win more with a turn raise than a flop raise. And you lose less when a fourth heart falls on the turn. However, that's only IF you're bet into again on the turn which is why I don't mind a flop raise. But I think if you call the flop you'll be bet into fairly often in this situation.

Re: Top 2 on a one-suited flop
 

Its not a huge mistake but its not a good decision either. And isnt that what we strive for. I would assume its hardly EV enough to make it worth playing.

Most likely he just got bored and started playing.

Re: Top 2 on a one-suited flop
 

Given the opponents, there can be a big difference between their raise and when they 3 bet or cap.

I'd call and see what the next guy does. He isn't 3 betting w/o a flush. He's weak tight. If they continue to get active, you fold. Why raise? Give them 2 more bets to define their hands.

A case could be made for raising, then if they only call, you can fold if bet into on the turn, but if checked to, then you can check behind taking the free card. Your 3 bet could freeze up a paranoid small flush.

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there's probably nothing wrong with folding, as at least one of these shmucks has a heart.


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Just because they have 'a' heart? Im not folding because of that.

b

Re: Top 2 on a one-suited flop
 

Even if he's on the button against 2 weak tight, predictable opponents? Some may raise this here.

b

Re: Top 2 on a one-suited flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I disagree. A big [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is gonna call, so raise it up when you're ahead. The odds of fropping a frush are pretty low. Slow down on the turn, not the frop.

[/ QUOTE ]
A big [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] will call a turn raise also. I never said I'd call the flop because I'm worried about a made flush. But you win more with a turn raise than a flop raise. And you lose less when a fourth heart falls on the turn. However, that's only IF you're bet into again on the turn which is why I don't mind a flop raise. But I think if you call the flop you'll be bet into fairly often in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent point.

Re: Top 2 on a one-suited flop
 

a big [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is making money off your raise, you charge them more by raising the turn.

Re: Top 2 on a one-suited flop
 

i'm thinking i was wrong.

by "thinking" i mean "knowing"

i will make a concerted effort to not post when half my brain isn't at the table. i think bernie covered this nicely.

Re: Top 2 on a one-suited flop
 

he handt seen many hands so his read most likely isnt entirely accurate

But i think its either raise or fold here? against weak-tight opponents.

Re: Top 2 on a one-suited flop
 

Are the blinds likely to fold, or call a raise?

b