O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

Does anyone (who knows what he’s talking about) have any ideas or advice for some sort of bury it in the back yard or hide it under the mattress type investments? Something that a person can easily buy for a couple hundred or a couple thousand at a time every once in a while?

It should be something that doesn’t require a lot of specialized knowledge (art work, classic books, antiques, etc) or time consuming market following, nor anything that generates additional paper work and tax complications. Something other than “put in stocks and wait.”

Something that has a chance to beat inflation over a 10 or 20 year period ... not a 1.4% CD or Money Market account.

Not Franklin Mint Collector Plate / Star Trek Chess Sets pathetic and hopeless type crap.

I know that investment grade diamonds are something very different from jewelry store diamonds, but that is the extent of my knowledge on that subject. They are probably out of the price range, anyway.

Are the tanzanites they’re pushing on Jewelry TV in the same category as collector plates, preying on stupid, poor people or are they actually an “investment” with some potential?

Something that is pretty easily liquidated when the time comes. Bags of silver coins, perhaps? Or some particular sort of gold coins or bars? Can they readily be sold in coin shops or somewhere without taking a huge beating on both buying and selling?

Any ideas?

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

I hear silver is a good investment.

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

If you actually want to put it under the mattress, then buy gold. silver is too bulky. With a 10-20 year horizon you probably won't be tearing it up but it will keep up with or outpace inflation.

If you actually want to invest and you don't need liquidity, you should be putting the maximum in to tax defferred accounts allocating as much as you can to small cap stocks with a healthy portion in emerging markets. Then, and this is important- never check to see how its doing. Any investment specialist can help you with this. do some research and bite the bullet with the paperwork.

If you want to be really risky then bankroll me [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img].

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

Drugs

I believe this correctly meets all of your listed criteria

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

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not a 1.4% CD or Money Market account.

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On a 10 year CD, you should be getting a hella lot better than 1.4%.


This would probably get more (and better) replys in the stock market forum.

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

Tough question. I wont claim to be an expert at any of this, but I don't see how a novice could possibly expect a better return off diamonds, gold, art, etc. over the market.

You don't want to study the market, or make risky plays? Fine, s&p500 index fund. Lower expenses than any other fund, and highly diversified with a small piece in many major US companies. This will likely crush all that other stuff over 10+ years (not to mention beat the hell out of most fund managers).

CD's do suck, but better than sitting in an even lower % savings account. You can squeeze out a few extra dollars (while remaining semi-liquid) by staggering cd's.

I'd imagine the mark-up on most of this stuff is large. Walk into your local coin shop and buy $200-300 worth of quality coins. Go back in a few weeks and see what he'll give you for them. I'll guess 75%, tops. These dealers are a lot like poker players, they can smell a sucker from a mile away.

I know this isn't exactlly what you asked, but I think it's very solid advice. I'd hate to read about how you lost your ass on investment grade collector plates [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

Hockey cards are probably pretty cheap right now. Maybe once the NHL recovers they will go up in value. I haven't tried this, but have heard of some people who had success with baseball cards during their strike.

Note: I don't even know if there are any hockey cards worth anything.

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

stock index funds

low cost,you should average 6%-8% yearly over eternity.Of course you may go thru stretchs where the market flatlines for 1O years-it happens.
Set one up and dollar-cost average monthly thru automatic montly deductions from checking/savings account.
Vanguard,Fidelity should do the trick.I use Vanguard VTSMX.
You could also buy QQQQ or SPY or any other broad market exchange traded fund and just hold it but I think the custodial fees or inactivity fees could possibly cost you more than an index fund.

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

[ QUOTE ]
Set one up and dollar-cost average monthly thru automatic montly deductions from checking/savings account.
Vanguard,Fidelity should do the trick.I use Vanguard VTSMX.


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Ditto. Setup a dollar cost averaging plan with a Vanguard index.

If you do not want to spend a ton of time each month learning the market and researching investments (most people don't and shouldn't), you have no chance of beating the market beyond random luck. However, matching the market over a 10 year horizon is pretty damn good. The key then is to beat the "rake", buy more under-valued stocks, and buy less over-valued stocks. Vanguard has the lowest fees for index funds available.

Also, for more liquid investments, it's hard to beat ING's Orange Savings. Even with today's low interest rates, the APY last month was 2.35%. They generally offer a better rate on their regular savings than a most banks offer on their long-term CDs. Back when interest rates were higher, they were offering over 5%.

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

Something I do with all my spare cash is to buy "broken gold jewellery", I get it for 15-20% discount to its gold content. I then refine it myself and separate the gold from the silver (freebie) and other metals.

There are always friends, acquaintances, etc. that have old jewellery, coins, scrap, etc. that they want to dispose of. At a nice 20% "entry profit" is a good deal.

When my hoard gets too big, I sell the 99.9% pure gold to a jeweler at full market price plus a premium for being it a black market operation.

All in all I'm happy with it.

If you want details on setting up a "gold and silver home refinery" with some pots and acids and cheap chemicals, etc. I have a guide that I sell for $100. You will produce 999.5%+ pure gold and 999/1000 silver.

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

I meant to say 9995/10000 pure gold and 999/1000 pure silver.

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

"I'd imagine the mark-up on most of this stuff is large. Walk into your local coin shop and buy $200-300 worth of quality coins. Go back in a few weeks and see what he'll give you for them. I'll guess 75%, tops. These dealers are a lot like poker players, they can smell a sucker from a mile away."

The bid/ask spread on most 'hard' investments is huge. Coins, 25-50%. Stamps, forget it. Diamonds, count on 25% minimum.

Gold bullion like Krugerands are pretty liquid, maybe $10 spread per ounce but gold in not a great play. All commodities are getting cheaper over the long run. The silver market is illogical in the extreme. Avoid it.

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

Ferraris

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

coffee beans

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

What's gold done over the past 13 years? Virtually NOTHING! In '92 gold was running around $380/oz, and everyone was saying it would go to $1600 in the next 5 years. Today, its at a spectacular $430/oz.

Mutual funds are the way to go, particularly for those who dont know all the ins & outs of investing. Check out the stock market forum, there are plenty of posters on there that know their stuff (much better than me)

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

[ QUOTE ]
Drugs

I believe this correctly meets all of your listed criteria

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Very liquid, very profitable. Have to know someone who gets a good deal though. Stick to weed.

Also, I am going to Barcelona in the summer, and then traveling to Cannes, Malta, and a couple other places. I plan on buying luxury goods over there and bringing them back. I know you can buy a luxury watch over there and just wear it back on the plane for a nice profit. Something to think about if you are ever out of the country.

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

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Something I do with all my spare cash is to buy "broken gold jewellery"

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I have seen signs for this on campus. Never understood what their deal was until now.

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I have a guide that I sell for $100

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www.google.com

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

<<I know you can buy a luxury watch over there and just wear it back on the plane for a nice profit. Something to think about if you are ever out of the country. >>

Where do you sell the goods in the US, and what kind of ROI do you achieve?

2nd

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

I Bonds.

They are guaranteed to beat inflation, are exempt from state and local income taxes, may be tax free if used for education expenses, are very liquid if held for more than five years, can be purchased via automatic periodic deduction, and can be purchased in amounts from $25 to $10,000 at a time.

Personally, I'm a big fan of maxing out a Roth IRA and loading up on high-dividend investments like REIT's. There's something to be said about 15% yields that are tax free. Of course, that's not very hands off and not liquid in the least.

WT

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

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Where do you sell the goods in the US, and what kind of ROI do you achieve?

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Oh well I havn't gotten around to looking into it yet, but I would imagine 30-40 percent.

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

[ QUOTE ]
www.google.com

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That is cheaper than my guide... till you get to spill a 5-gallon bottle of gold chlorides with $12,000 worth of metal disolved in it...or when your hands become purple-stained or you get emphysema in your lungs from the fumes...or whatever...

For whatever is worth, I was manager of a Gold Refinery that used to process up to 2 tons per month fine gold, and the associated silver and PGMs that came with it. And really, the guide would need to be written, as I don't have it, except as a sketch, in my mind.

The profit is all in the buying-it-cheap, not in the refining of it. You can always send it to a refiner for processing.

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

There are no good investments - well, except real estate, but you said you didn't want to mess with it.

Gold has no intrinsic value, and as somebody said, it hasn't done anything in years. It's purely speculative.

Stocks - despite having stagnated for almost five years now - are still overpriced. You should expect them to go down even more (in terms of P/E ratios) over the next decade or so.

Interest rates are going up, so any long-term non-liquid investment, is going to suffer.

Stay with short-term safe, interest bearing accounts.

Short-term CDs, money markets, that kind of thing.

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

Make sure that the Rolex doesn't go tick tick tick with the second hand. I had a girlfriend in college that bought me a Rolex that looked and felt good, unfortunately my wrist turned green.

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

I'm not going to read any of the other posts so if this is redundant, move on. That said, you could buy discounted promissary notes. They are usually 10K or more but it's possible to find smaller ones. The way they work is, basically, you find someone who has a promissary note for a future value of X and they need to liquidate for some reason so you come along and offer them it's present value Y minus a discount. For example, someone has a settlement from a lawsuit and has $10,000 coming to them over the next 5 years. They need money now so you offer to give them $6,500 for the note giving you a $3,500 return over five years or 10.77% per year. That is simple interest return not compound however.

I've never done this sort of investing because it's tough to find someone who is willing to sell their promissary note for a discount that's high enough to be worth your while (remember, simple interest < compound interest). It is possible however. I have a cousin who sued Target and the Gap (long story) and got a $500,000 dollar settlement that was annuitized over 10 years. A few weeks after the settlement, she got a call from some guy who offered to give her $170,000 up front for the note. She took the offer and gave the guy a note that gave him a 19.4% simple return. It's a bad deal for her but in her mind it was a lot of money because she was getting around $4200 paid to her monthly and $170,000 up front seemed huge in comparison. If you work the right deal, it's a perfect investment...large return, no risk.

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

Mutual Funds. Or an index fund. Just pick an equity fund and let it grow over time. It's the safest for somebody that doesn't want to do a lot of research.

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

Wow. A lot of good “traditional” investment thinking here, and a lot fewer goofball replies than I expected. Thank you all for taking the time to answer.

Of the suggestions posted so far, Baulucky has come the closest to what I’m looking for with the old gold thing. I have a friend who did very well with that back in the 70's. He went out knocking on doors with his gram scale and acid test kit and bought up old eyeglasses, class rings, that sort of stuff. It’s more actual “work” than I want to get involved in, but it would probably be very good for some of you ambitious guys.

If anybody has any more ideas, let me repeat that I am not interested in stocks, bonds, or any sort of “paper” investment – I’m all set with that stuff. I had always planned to retire at 55 and managed to do it at 50 instead ... so I’m not looking for traditional major life-time retirement planning investments, but rather something to do with some of the “extra” money poker generates.

RE: Drugs. I haven’t had a gram scale since the 60's ... and I ingested or gave away more than I sold, anyway.

RE: Coins. I wasn’t thinking of a rare coin collection type thing. I’ve seen / heard of bags of (unsorted?) silver coins sold by weight, but know nothing about it. Viable? Worth looking into?

RE: Gold. I would disagree that gold has no intrinsic value ... it does have industrial uses, as does silver. I realize, though, that silver is very iffy and can actually cost more to mine than it can be sold for. That said, do you think gold coins, even if they are not spectacular investment performers, have the potential to beat inflation? How about a period of severe inflation, should that come to be?

RE: Real estate. Not for me. My brother owns dozens of rental properties ... can you say “work”? ... or “headaches”? I even hated owning a house. Let me just pay the rent and call the landlord when something goes wrong. That particular American dream has never been one of mine.

RE: Risk. I’m not at all adverse to risk. I’ve made my living in and around gambling for a long long time. Something very speculative would be just fine, so long as it doesn’t involve a lot of work, including paperwork.

RE: Should have posted in Stock Market Forum. Nah. I’m looking for non-traditional Zoo type thinking.

So there ya go ... It took me a while to figure out what I’m talking about, but it seems I’m looking for “items” that can be readily bought and sold that have some value that will probably increase at least at the rate of inflation. Now that’s the American dream.

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

Krugerands make classy chips, too.

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

I also bought some tax-lien-certs when I lived in Texas, very nice % return, but illiquid. I read somewhere that many poeple are doing that these days and hence the % returns may have come down a lot.

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

don't don't and don't buy TV jewelry!!! if you want to flip that quick for profit, a jeweler will look at that crap and laugh at you.

if you are going to invest in jewelry, try and get estate pieces or name brands with high appreciation value (e.g. tiffanys, van cleef & arpel, cartier).

diamonds are a tricky investment. a big rock can be sold to a speculator for a profit. if you don't sell the uncut stone, then you can have it carved. if it comes out nice you can easily make 5X more than selling a rough stone (but this is a gamble)

if you are going into cut diamonds, try and get diamonds with a high clarity/quality rating. also, try and get a GIA certification on your stones as a security measure to help sell and make sure your stones are real.





if that doesn't work, go sell snow like tony montana [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

Hiya Mike. That link led me to doing some research on British Sovereigns, a small, common gold coin whose value is related more to the gold market than to “collector” value – they sell for just a bit over $100, making it easy to buy with whatever spare cash a person might have. They are apparently easy to buy and sell, recognized world wide, they were even provided to soldiers in the Gulf War as emergency currency. Anybody know anything about these?

lil_o, I wasn’t considering the TV jewelry, rings and such. I was curious about the loose gemstones they are selling, particularly the tanzanite. I was wondering who buys those things – they sell gems for $10,000 and more on live late night TV, obviously not the trailer park / collector plate crowd buying them ... Then again, they sell $400 computers to ignorant buyers for $2500 on TV ... the loose gems just have me intrigued in a Scrooge McDuck money bin way, but I’m looking for info, not to dump my bankroll on marketing scam.

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

In your case, gold may be a good investment, but there is something to keep in mind:

[ QUOTE ]
All persons are hereby required to deliver on or before May 1, 1933, to a Federal Reserve bank or a branch or agency thereof or to any member bank of the Federal Reserve System all gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates now owned by them or coming into their ownership on or before April 28, 1933

[/ QUOTE ]

For more info, http://www.the-privateer.com/1933-go...fiscation.html

This may never happen again, but it's something to consider when selecting which coins to purchase.

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

Buy municipal bonds. They are mostly tax free, will beat inflation, and show better income then the cds, etc..

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

Yes, it could happen again.

In my recent research I’ve come across some interesting stuff regarding gold coin and bullion sales – for instance:

There are companies that will lock in the current price for you on a telephone order. They take your name and address but don’t physically write it on the invoice, writing it instead on a 3x5 card stapled to the invoice. The preferred method of payment is (anonymous) Postal Money Order. Once they receive payment they ship by Registered Mail. As soon as they confirm that the order was delivered they destroy the 3x5 with your personal info on it.

And this is big, reputable businesses that have been around for a long long time. Interesting, the lengths people will go to to protect their privacy.

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

Buy a pattern mapper (or develop one of your own) and sell it on Ebay for a nice profit.

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

Not funny...

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

Stocks with a yield of over 6% and costing less than 10 times earnings will outperform inflation and the stock market by a massive amount over time, plenty of different holdings is the way to avoid bad luck, if the majority of major investment banking firms have them down as likely to underperform the market, then they are even more likely to outperform. People may think this is a joke but these are facts born out over a 100 years, people who have invested in all the 'big things' such as motor vehicles, computers, software, telecommunications, and internet companies have lost money more often than not, better of putting it in a water company or a stressed manufacturer, nothing exciting will likely happen you'll just get more wealth slowly.

Regards Mack

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

this is a good site to explore

until i read your comments, Terry, i would have said the opposite: Krugerrands are bought by investors as handy lumps of gold; whereas Sovereigns are bought by collectors as gold coins with a history and hence at a premium price

regards

m

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

How about platinum, the us mint sells platinum coins and this years mintage is the lowest ever or close to it. Could be a very good investment.

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

Sponsor Dutch Boyd. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: O/T Looking for \"under the mattress\" type investment
 

[ QUOTE ]
Drugs

I believe this correctly meets all of your listed criteria

[/ QUOTE ]

lol... yeah, the OP never stated the risk factors he's willing to assume.

of course body armor, a few peeps to watch your back, and a good lawyer can mitagate the risk of bad deals, competition + cops. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]