JJ fold
 

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

UTG+1 is a 17/8/1.7 player and MP1 is a 36/12/0.4 player

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, BB calls.

Flop: (16.66 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 3-bets</font>, BB calls, Hero folds...

Re: JJ fold
 

*yawn* Next hand...

Re: JJ fold
 

You do look screwed here for sure, I fold too.

Re: JJ fold
 

I wouldn't make this fold, but I can see how the TA-N's flop raise followed by the 3-bet by MP1, who is ordinarily passive postflop (but, in this hand, makes a suspiciously and uncharacteristically passive preflop cold-call) could make it correct.

I'm thinking MP1 probably has AA or a set (though I guess something like 87s is also possible, which would also be a big problem).

I'm also thinking I'm not ready for 15/30.

Re: JJ fold
 

What was your reasoning behing capping it PF?

Re: JJ fold
 

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What was your reasoning behing capping it PF?

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Are you serious?

Re: JJ fold
 

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What was your reasoning behing capping it PF?

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My guess is that hero feels that his pot equity at this moment is substantially greater than 25%, especially if the villains are sharing each others outs with hands like AK and AQ.

Re: JJ fold
 

Is .4 his post flop-aggression? Thats pretty low for someone so loose and aggressive pre-flop. Seems like he must have a big hand.

If that is based on a large number of hands I like your fold.

If not, I am not yet convinced that you are behind. If the same action repeats on the turn, I would be convinced.

I try not to read too much into flop aggression, especially when the pot is big.

Re: JJ fold
 

Yes... but I guess asking for more info/trying to learn something is wrong.... sorry for wasting space in your thread..

Re: JJ fold
 

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What was your reasoning behing capping it PF?

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Are you serious?

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I think you're overly harsh here. While it is probably better to cap preflop I doubt there's much in it. I can't exactly see UTG+1 3 betting with 99.

Re: JJ fold
 

I just don't understand the PF cap. UTG seems to be a tight player and most likely is 3-betting with AA-QQ and AK. MP1 is loose but aggressive PF and here makes a very unusual call of 3-cold (AA-22???, Ax?). I can understand capping it if you're putting UTG on AK and MP1 on a smaller pair. If you're going to make this read and cap PF then don't you need to see this hand at least a round further on this board? Wouldn't you cap the flop to drive out UTG... bet the turn and fold to a raise?

Re: JJ fold
 

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What was your reasoning behing capping it PF?

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Are you serious?

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I think you're overly harsh here.

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Ya think? [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Re: JJ fold
 

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What was your reasoning behing capping it PF?

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Are you serious?

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I think you're overly harsh here. While it is probably better to cap preflop I doubt there's much in it. I can't exactly see UTG+1 3 betting with 99.

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I can.

scrub

Re: JJ fold
 

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What was your reasoning behing capping it PF?

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Are you serious?

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I think you're overly harsh here. While it is probably better to cap preflop I doubt there's much in it. I can't exactly see UTG+1 3 betting with 99.

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I can.

scrub

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He'd be making a very dubious play.

Re: JJ fold
 

[ QUOTE ]
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What was your reasoning behing capping it PF?

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Are you serious?

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I think you're overly harsh here. While it is probably better to cap preflop I doubt there's much in it. I can't exactly see UTG+1 3 betting with 99.

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I don't understand why everybody is so scared to cap Jacks nowadays. A player like UTG+1 who I described as a 17/8 player (TAG) will almost always 3-bet AK here. with the presesnce of a loose caller behind him, this is an EASY cap.

UTG+1's range of hands
AK - 16 combos
AA - 6 combos
KK - 6 combos
QQ - 6 combos
JJ - 1 combo
TT - 6 combos

he'll also occasionally 3-bet a hand like AQ. even if he never 3-bets AQ or TT, you're still only a slitht dog against his range of hands, but the presense of a loose coldcaller gives you enough overlay to make the cap +EV.

Re: JJ fold
 

Yes, but does that give reason to act like an ass to a new poster looking to learn?

Re: JJ fold
 

i agree that you were probably a bit harsh. Kiss and make up.

Cappping jacks pf seems ultra-reasonable if you are willing to make these kind of laydowns.

peace

john nickle

Re: JJ fold
 

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[ QUOTE ]
What was your reasoning behing capping it PF?

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Are you serious?

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I think you're overly harsh here. While it is probably better to cap preflop I doubt there's much in it. I can't exactly see UTG+1 3 betting with 99.

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I can.

scrub

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He'd be making a very dubious play.

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I'm not saying he wouldn't be making a dubious play. I'm saying that many players in the 15, even those with decent/bordering on passive preflop stats 3-bet 99 here.

scrub

Re: JJ fold
 

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Yes, but does that give reason to act like an ass to a new poster looking to learn?

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Well said (written?).

Re: JJ fold
 

[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
What was your reasoning behing capping it PF?

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Are you serious?

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I think you're overly harsh here. While it is probably better to cap preflop I doubt there's much in it. I can't exactly see UTG+1 3 betting with 99.

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I can.

scrub

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He'd be making a very dubious play.

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Furthermore "he'd be making a very dubious play" is pretty poor justification for why someone can't have a hand, even if their numbers do look approximately good.

scrub

Re: JJ fold
 

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Cappping jacks pf seems ultra-reasonable if you are willing to make these kind of laydowns.


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Bingo

Re: JJ fold
 

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What was your reasoning behing capping it PF?

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Are you serious?

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I think you're overly harsh here. While it is probably better to cap preflop I doubt there's much in it. I can't exactly see UTG+1 3 betting with 99.

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I can.

scrub

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He'd be making a very dubious play.

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Furthermore "he'd be making a very dubious play" is pretty poor justification for why someone can't have a hand, even if their numbers do look approximately good.

scrub

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My wording was wrong. I can easily see players having 99 there, but not often a good player as I believed that to be the assumption. I don't care much for this area of the post, I am more bothered about the tone of CDC's initial reponse.

Re: JJ fold
 

I don't think threebetting with 99 here is a dubious play [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] It's the worst hand I'd raise though, so if that counts as dubious...

-Michael

Re: JJ fold
 

FYI - I have no hard feelings.... onto the hand....

The reason I posted the question about capping in the first place was only because you released so quick on the flop. As I posted above (and per your post) we're both putting UTG on the same range of hands. It's MP that you're worried about after the flop.

However, with no real read on MP due the the lack of PF agression why don't you try to push out UTG on the flop with another cap and see where it goes from there? IMO the range of hands for MP1 is fairly large here (especially if MP is putting YOU and UTG on big cards). Do you think he'd 3-bet the flop with TT/88/77? I'm not trying to be arguementative - just inquisitive.....

Re: JJ fold
 

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Yes, but does that give reason to act like an ass to a new poster looking to learn?

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Well said (written?).

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Put, well put.

Re: JJ fold
 

I think you played inconsistantly. Before the flop, you cap, thinking your hand is best. You get a perfect flop for you (besides a set) and then you fold. Either fold preflop (which I think is best) or play past the flop when you have an over pair.

Re: JJ fold
 

The reason he can fold here is because of the preflop cap.

-Michael

Re: JJ fold
 

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Yes, but does that give reason to act like an ass to a new poster looking to learn?

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sorry tosh, i never meant to sound pompous, its just that the thought of not capping seemed incredilous to me that was my first reaction. didn't mean no harm. my appologies.

Re: JJ fold
 

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I don't think threebetting with 99 here is a dubious play [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] It's the worst hand I'd raise though, so if that counts as dubious...

-Michael

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If I knew it was FishDaddy, I'd probably let him get on with his bad self at many tables. If I saw an UTG raiser with FishDaddy's stats, I would probably 3-bet, but his stats are deceptive since he raises so much in position.

scrub

Re: JJ fold
 

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The reason he can fold here is because of the preflop cap.

-Michael

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This is a big reason for capping that I almost mentioned in my first post.

scrub

Re: JJ fold
 

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I think you played inconsistantly. Before the flop, you cap, thinking your hand is best. You get a perfect flop for you (besides a set) and then you fold. Either fold preflop (which I think is best) or play past the flop when you have an over pair.

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He's capping because he probably has the best hand. Very few hands are better than JJ. However on this flop they are screaming they have one of those few. A preflop cap doesn't commit you to see the turn regardless of action.

Re: JJ fold
 

I agree. Its a good hand to cap pre-flop, JJ could very easily be the best hand. I think the flop fold is a fairly easy decision. A guy with .4 postflop aggression just three bet after cold-calling 3 to go preflop. He may have done that with 99, which gives him a set, or he hass AA or KK. Either way, JJ is in big trouble if the board is this ragged and there's this much action. If you call or cap the flop, what are you going to do from there? Call it down and drop 2,3,or 4 big bets? Its very likely JJ is behind, probably way behind. Nice hand.