Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

I played some rich fish in a heads up game for high stakes one night. This guy runs a home game that I had been to before and I had grown to trust him. I bought in for $2300 and starting it heads up at midnight NL with 5/10 blinds. By the end of the night it was 25/50 and I cashed out at $10,125. He was only able to pay back $1500 total because he had also lost in the ring game before the heads up and didnt have any more cash on him. He said he would have the money by a certain time and he owes me $8600. Now he says me and my friend cheated him and he won't pay me. What is the best course of action?

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

Hired goons.

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

I'd rather do something more reasonable as he is a respected man in the business world and can hire much better goons and I am a college student.

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

Why would you play for that kind of money without seeing the cash up front? It's your own fault, really. That kind of carelessness in this situation lends me to believe this is a bogus post.

Best course? Never play with him again. I'd right off the amount to a learning experience.

b

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

I'd just like to point out how stupid you are for trusting him, and thinking that the guy would actually pay up. Only play people who have cash up front.

Also you're never getting your money back.

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

Are you serious?

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

You're never seeing a dime unless you can shake him up. If it's wise not to mess with him, you take the loss and move on.

-Michael

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd rather do something more reasonable as he is a respected man in the business world and can hire much better goons and I am a college student.

[/ QUOTE ]
Tell him you'll forgive the debt if he hooks you up with a cushy job.

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

I second this one!

I really hope it is not. Becaus you will probably not see this money. And since it went this way this time, then he will proably not want to play with you again. Then you will not only have lost the money but you will also have lost a very good fish to make money from in the future!

If you had played with real cash from the beggining then this would probably not have happend!

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

in a home game, everyone should buy in and the money should be kept in a bank. in the home games I sometimes play, the guy who runs the game (the house) buys in the same as everyone else. you're probably not going to see the money, but it's incredibly naive to think he's good for it in the first place. I mean, you're playing the guy heads up for christsakes.

--turnipmonster

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

This is one of those jokes where you come back later and say.... "oh, and the stakes were actually in *cents* not dollars....."


Right?


Adam

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

First off, don't go into business, cause you really suck at details.

Ive played a cat on credit before after he ran out of cash. At the end of the night before he was allowed to leave I had him sign a promissory note for the amount owed. Payable on X date. He was not excited about the prospect of signing the paper, so I told him it was either sign the paper or give me his wedding ring as collateral. He signed the paper. I collected the money.

Though he knew he wasn't walking out of there until things got squared away.

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

Ask him how his clients and/or boss would like to hear about how he handles his debts and potential gambling problem. If he is a respected business man, he should be afraid of this. I'd give him some time to pay up first - maybe a monthly payment or something.

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

Write it off. Gambling debts are not enforceable in most states. The only thing you can do is let others who play with this guy that he is a welcher. This might keep other people from making the same mistake. I will echo what others said about only playing for cash on the table.

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

Kill his dog.

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

Kneecap him.

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

http://www.homedepot.com/cmc_upload/...s/165978_3.jpg

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

And put the dog's head in his bed

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

Hey!!! That dog never did anything to him. Bastard.

Now, if he has a cat, on the other hand . . . that's just fine.

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

in the future accept a check, have him postdate it if necesarry,

ps. if you are in the midwest, i'll collect it for 10%

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

Do you have an IOU? File suit. Also, you could tell him you are reporting him to the police. If I read this correctly, he ran a home game, then didn't pay out. If he is at all intelligent can afford to pay what he owes, he will understand that at the very least he will have to deal with a leagle sitution and that the potential down side is pretty large. (Really, it's kind of hard to live down getting a summons at work and getting hauled into court for running a poker game and stiffing a college kid. I mean here, you bought in for $2300, WON A LOT, and cashed out $1500. Even discounting the winnings, he flat out stole $800 in cash).

Getting violent would likely be effective, but that is not a good course of action. Bludgeon him with the law, he has to understand that he has a lot more to lose by not paying up than by just forking over the dough. If he claims he was cheated I would observe the following:
The game was at his house.
You bought in for $2300 and cashed out $1500
He's the one running a crooked shop.

Actually, the fact that he is not paying off may be enough to consider this running a game for profit. Really, he is not in a good position.

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

Get the word out about what he did. Get it to his friends, to his wife, to other players around town. Eventually he'll get cut off from games and others will stop going to his. I think people will find it hard to believe that he was cheated playing heads up in his own house.

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

These people have it all wrong.

It's easy to do $9K worth of damage to a rich guy's car. Make it clear one way or the other, he's being seperated from the money.

Have sex with his wife. Or his daughter. Or his wife, daughter, and parakeet.

Rent "Cape Fear," the one with DeNiro. Lots of good ideas in there.

Channel Christopher Walken. Walken gets paid.

Threaten to file a sex assault charge against him. "It was bad touch!" Nothing like a gay rape theme to get the checkbook out.

HTH.

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

Options:

1) Force- Do you know anyone who would be well suited for this sort of thing? If you send the right the type of guy, a simple "Pay up or else" would probably be all it would take assuming the guy has the money to pay. Do you know any bookies? They could probably put you in contact with someone that would be more than happy to collect the debt for a percentage.

2) Blackmail- You say this guy is respected in the business community. Does he have a family, and if so do they know about his gambling problem? Also, if the police were aware that he was running a poker game AND cheating his players, I don't think that would be very good for his reputation. Also, if he's degenerate enough, the mere threat of spreading the word to other local poker players so that he can no longer get a game may be enough.

3) Theft- If you are anyone you know are willing/able to go this route, you could just take something of his that is of greater or equal value to the debt. Also, since you yourself have already been cheated here, on a moral level, I think you would be perfectly justified in cheating him in an even larger heads-up match (CASH buy-in of course, and make sure it is set up such that you will have no problem actually leaving with the money, i.e. have some large friends present)

4) General Threats- Whether you could do this credibly or not depends a lot on your "table image" with this guy, but you could simply inform him that if he doesn't pay up, you will do everything in your power to make his life a living hell.

The principle in this matter is much more important than actual 8k IMO. You MUST somehow collect this debt even if you must do reprehensible things. You need to send a message to him and everyone else that is aware of this matter that you are not someone to be fcuked with.

Quite frankly, the fact that this guy would even consider telling you to go [censored] yourself reflects poorly on you. I'm not saying you should be going around acting like Joe Pesci or whatever, but to some extent you do need to present yourself in such a way that people know that if they [censored] with you, bad things are likely to happen.

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

you are either lying, or retarded.

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

[ QUOTE ]
you are either lying, or retarded.

[/ QUOTE ]

only semi-retarded

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

Obviously you don't watch too much Tilt. Next time you see him at the table, dive across the table. If you don't see him at a table, catch him in an empty corridor and stomp on his kneecaps. If all else fails, toss him onto a slot machine from the top level of your local casino.

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

[ QUOTE ]
I played some rich fish in a heads up game for high stakes one night. This guy runs a home game that I had been to before and I had grown to trust him. I bought in for $2300 and starting it heads up at midnight NL with 5/10 blinds. By the end of the night it was 25/50 and I cashed out at $10,125. He was only able to pay back $1500 total because he had also lost in the ring game before the heads up and didnt have any more cash on him. He said he would have the money by a certain time and he owes me $8600. Now he says me and my friend cheated him and he won't pay me. What is the best course of action?

[/ QUOTE ]

You cheated him heads up? That's pretty impressive.

First of all ignore any of the advice that advocates illegal activity. Going to jail sucks. You loss isn't worth it.

Ask the man again.

Then call up his wife. Tell her about the gambling debt and ask her to pay it or to talk to him about paying it.

Ask the man again.

Call up his boss. Tell him about the gambling debt and ask the boss if he'll be willing to make good on the debt. If not ask him to talk to the fellow about paying it.

Ask the man again.

Call up the man's mother...

--Zetack

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

WOW why would u do that???

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

[ QUOTE ]
You need to send a message to him and everyone else that is aware of this matter that you are not someone to be fcuked with... Quite frankly, the fact that this guy would even consider telling you to go [censored] yourself reflects poorly on you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bing. Part of the feminization of the American man is the idea that if somebody fcuks with you there's not much you can do about it. Being unable to handle this is almost a moral shortcoming. You won't be able to hand real problems if you can't handle this.

There's also the practical matter that if this guy doesn't have to pay you, others might decide they don't either. You really don't want to go down that road.

I don't really think this actually occurred, but if it happened to me, I would be getting paid.

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

paintball his house.

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

Definetly let us know what ends up happening.

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

Well most of you are being rediculous about this situation. I didn't give the full details as to why we could trust him and all. Here is the full story:

There is a website for finding home games in the Denver area which I have used all year. The few games I go to, I know the runners very well including this guy. We have become friends if you will. His games are run in his mansion of a house in the basement and there have never been any problems before. I usually just go and play 1/2 NL poker and leave. This guy is a real retard. He doesn't know basic math or basic logic so explaining things to him can be very difficult, but he is always up for action. The night this occurred, about 2 weeks ago, there was the standard 1/2 game in his basement, but I asked him if he wanted to play higher stakes afterwards heads up. I was with a friend who did not have the bankroll for the stakes we wanted to play and I did not want to make him wait there forever. So what I did was allow my friend to play with my money heads up against him for 8 hours for a percentage. I dealt the game probably about 3/4 of the time (8 hours strait hurts the hands). I used a cut card and used the standard casino shuffle. After all was said and done, we cashed out for $10,125 and since we all lost money in the 1/2 cash game he did not have the full money to pay us out and agreed to pay us within 2 weeks.

My thinking was that if he was going to screw us that I would worry about it in the 2 weeks and figure out how to get my money back now. All I am looking for is creative suggestions as I have many of my own. I WILL GET MY MONEY BACK.

Anyway, back to the story. At the beginning of the game, he said he had enough money to cover all the chips on the table and we trusted him as a friend and as someone who lived like a millionaire that this was small time change to him.

A week later he told some of his friends what had happened, and they told him that he had been cheating because I was dealing. Him being the idiot that he is will not pay now because he thinks he was cheated. In fact, the biggest pot that I dealt he won when he called an all in on a gutshot vs my friends top set and won. It was about break even during my dealing and when they self-dealt it was my friend kicking ass. (I knew my friend was good enough to crush this guy).

We have come up with many solutions and are still trying to reason for him with compromises. Please don't just call me retarded and post if you are willing to help. Either way, I am going to [censored] with this guy after the situation is over for a long time. I may even have someone steal his car in a couple of years and sell it for parts. Things along those lines.

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

How about posting his name, address and home and business phone here. The level of harassment a couple hundred of 2+2ers can lay down would be pretty severe!

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

great idea ! I'm game

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

this complete story totally changes things...the way you first told it sounded like you were gambling with the guy and he couldnt pay. if he is a friend of yours it might be best to forgive the debt especially if he is a producer for you.

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

With this type of arrangement, I think his accusation of cheating was almost inevitable.

-Michael

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

[ QUOTE ]
How about posting his name, address and home and business phone here. The level of harassment a couple hundred of 2+2ers can lay down would be pretty severe!

[/ QUOTE ]

That is a sweet idea. Id be willing to help.

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

It would be a good group bonding exp. I still think paintballing his house would be kinda fun [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]. Just outta curiousity why were you dealing for them? I know dealing for yourself can be a pain in the arse...but it would've avoided the cheating complaint

Re: Need advice on collecting a very large debt....
 

Dan - you really need to give the name, address and phone number. I'm up in Loveland and am always looking for home games. If nothing else, I just want this guys name so I know never to play with him.