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-   -   "Poker Craze collides with state laws" (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=180724)

joedot 01-20-2005 05:10 PM

\"Poker Craze collides with state laws\"
 
ST. PAUL, Minn. - David Bischoff thinks he got a raw deal last year when state gambling regulators raided his bowling alley, shut down his weekly Texas Hold 'em poker tournament and confiscated his cards and chips.

For months afterward, the threat of criminal charges hung over Bischoff — and his card tables sat vacant — until prosecutors concluded that Minnesota's laws against poker were too vague to enforce.

Minnesota is now one of several states where legislators are looking to clarify laws dealing with card games at a time when poker is becoming an all-out craze.

"These are just people who have been watching poker on TV and they want to come out and play and be like the people on TV," said Bischoff, whose tournaments are up and running again. "It's not about spending money and winning money. It's just about the competition and seeing who can be the best."

The game at the center of the poker mania is Texas Hold 'em, in which players are dealt two cards each and can use five community cards flipped over in the middle of the table to make the best hand. Players can risk everything on a single turn of a card.

As the popularity of the game has grown, so have problems for gambling regulators.

In Iowa, a couple of American Legion posts heeded warnings and halted their regular tournaments rather than jeopardize their charitable gaming licenses. A similar concern led a firehouse outside of Pittsburgh to call off its games.

Police in Wyoming started breaking up Texas Hold 'em tournaments in bars, and the state's attorney general advised that the events were probably illegal. In Texas itself — where the game thrived in smoky back rooms before becoming a smash hit on cable TV — prosecutors are questioning whether bars are improperly profiting from tournaments.

"The popularity of the poker shows has created a whole new beast for us as far as regulations," said David Werning of Iowa's Department of Inspections and Appeals. Inquiries about poker became so common that the agency recently compiled a fact sheet on poker laws.

Minnesota law allows card tournaments at bars and businesses as long as the hosts do not directly profit from the play and players do not gamble with real money. Bischoff said he complied with those rules by charging no entry fees and limiting awards to hats and T-shirts.

His situation drew the attention of state Sen. Dave Kleis, who this month introduced legislation that would define Texas Hold 'em as a "social skill game" and lump it with card games like cribbage and rummy — games in which players are allowed to win money in Minnesota. Kleis' bill would explicitly permit poker tournaments as long as the prizes do not exceed $200.

"It's no different than cribbage, 500, euchre or bridge. Those are played all over the state, whether it be in nursing homes, restaurants or bars," Kleis said. "Why don't you raid the nursing home for playing cribbage and bridge?"

Kurt McPhail of the Amateur Poker League, a Kansas City-based business that runs more than 400 events a week across nine states, complained that regulators are unfairly clamping down on poker tournaments.

He said regulators in some states are blurring the distinction between high-stakes games and those that do not require players to put in their own money.

"You hear poker and you immediately think gambling. We've taken the money issue out of it and are doing it strictly for entertainment," said McPhail, the league's vice president. "It's on the line of a band or karaoke. It's just a form of entertainment the bars are bringing in to attract customers."

For now, Minnesota regulators are not wavering from their hard line on Texas Hold 'em, even while acknowledging it will be difficult to keep a lid on it.

"It's the soup of the day. It's very popular," said Frank Ball, director of Minnesota's Alcohol and Gambling Enforcement Division. But, he said, "It's not gin rummy. It's not 500. It's not hearts. Those are all games of skill. This is a random game, and it's a gamble."

joedot 01-20-2005 05:12 PM

Re: \"Poker Craze collides with state laws\"
 
How about the ignorance of that last guy? Poker is not a game of skill, it's a random game and just a gamble. ROFLMFAO. Sure dude, whatever you say.

AngryCola 01-20-2005 05:23 PM

Re: \"Poker Craze collides with state laws\"
 
I liked it better the first two times it was posted. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
You're about 30 minutes behind.

Come on, man! Get with it! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Link

Link 2

PsYcHo-ScHnAuZeR 01-20-2005 05:31 PM

Re: \"Poker Craze collides with state laws\"
 
[ QUOTE ]
I liked it better the first two times it was posted. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
You're about 30 minutes behind.

Come on, man! Get with it! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

He was the first to post it correctly (Right forum and with a proper title suggesting the thread's content).

joedot wins. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

AngryCola 01-20-2005 05:51 PM

Re: \"Poker Craze collides with state laws\"
 
[ QUOTE ]
(Right forum and with a proper title suggesting the thread's content)

[/ QUOTE ]

Saying the Zoo is the "right forum" for this is seriously stretching it.

Still, he doesn't "win" anything.
He was behind the times, man! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

joedot 01-20-2005 05:53 PM

Re: \"Poker Craze collides with state laws\"
 
Even though I didn't "win" anything, I think I'll sleep well tonight [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Unless the cops bust down my door at 3AM and bust me for playing online poker

PsYcHo-ScHnAuZeR 01-20-2005 05:57 PM

Re: \"Poker Craze collides with state laws\"
 
Better to be late than to make us guess what the thread is about.

joedot 01-20-2005 06:00 PM

Re: \"Poker Craze collides with state laws\"
 
Thanks psycho. I guess I'm just too lazy to bother with the search function. Either that or I don't care enough to bother. It doesn't bruise my ego to get flamed anyway. In fact, that is the standard around here so I expect no less. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Cubswin 01-20-2005 06:01 PM

Re: \"Poker Craze collides with state laws\"
 
You guys all need to get with it... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] i posted a story about this subject this past sunday in my News of the Week thread. Direct link to the news story here

cubs

AngryCola 01-20-2005 06:03 PM

Re: \"Poker Craze collides with state laws\"
 
[ QUOTE ]
Better to be late than to make us guess what the thread is about.

[/ QUOTE ]

The thread in OOT had the exact same title.

:shrug:

Either way, you guys shouldn't take me so seriously.
I was just screwing around.

joedot 01-20-2005 06:03 PM

Re: \"Poker Craze collides with state laws\"
 
Yeah, we kind of got that. You really need to get a job as a reporter for a TV station man. Quit wasting your skills on 2+2. lol

PsYcHo-ScHnAuZeR 01-20-2005 06:06 PM

Re: \"Poker Craze collides with state laws\"
 
Throwing a bunch of articles at us without pointing out which are truly important has limited value.

Cubswin 01-20-2005 06:09 PM

Re: \"Poker Craze collides with state laws\"
 
sooooo... given your reasoning newspapers have limited value???

AngryCola 01-20-2005 06:17 PM

Re: \"Poker Craze collides with state laws\"
 
[ QUOTE ]
Throwing a bunch of articles at us without pointing out which are truly important has limited value.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stop taking everything so seriously.

PsYcHo-ScHnAuZeR 01-20-2005 06:18 PM

Re: \"Poker Craze collides with state laws\"
 
[ QUOTE ]
sooooo... given your reasoning newspapers have limited value???

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I'm saying YOU have contributed limited value to us. (limited "value added")

We can all do a search on poker articles, but if someone with good long term experience in this field (like you) pointed out which one or two articles were really interesting or important, it would mean a lot more.

I haven't got time to read all 20 or whatever articles you linked.

AngryCola 01-20-2005 06:21 PM

Re: \"Poker Craze collides with state laws\"
 
[ QUOTE ]
No, I'm saying YOU have contributed limited value to us.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's time for the person with 19 posts to get over himself.
Cubswin is easily one of the best posters on 2+2.

[ QUOTE ]
I haven't got time to read all 20 or whatever articles you linked.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not his problem.

PsYcHo-ScHnAuZeR 01-20-2005 06:27 PM

Re: \"Poker Craze collides with state laws\"
 
No need to freak out dude. I think cubs can recognize constructive advice. Information overload is just as bad as lack of information.

Angry, return to OOT and cool off. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

AngryCola 01-20-2005 06:30 PM

Re: \"Poker Craze collides with state laws\"
 
[ QUOTE ]

Angry, return to OOT and cool off.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me?

I'm pretty sure you were the one taking things way too seriously in this thread.

I'm actually quite calm today.

PsYcHo-ScHnAuZeR 01-20-2005 06:35 PM

Re: \"Poker Craze collides with state laws\"
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Angry, return to OOT and cool off.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me?

I'm pretty sure you were the one taking things way too seriously in this thread.

I'm actually quite calm today.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe you just aren't in sync with the way I write. Every post of mine in this thread has been aimed at making threads and links more informative to people browsing the forum. (Clear thread titles, pointing out the best articles) As the zoo gets bigger, it is more important to keep things like this in mind, since we can't all read every thread or newspaper article.

Only Granny even attempts to read everything. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Cubswin 01-20-2005 06:38 PM

Re: \"Poker Craze collides with state laws\"
 
MB

All one has to do is read the title of the articles or look at the hard source the article appears in to determine if it is salient to read that particular article. If an article appears in the NY Times, for example, anyone with half a brain knows the article deserves a read.

Additionally, did it every occour to you that the articles i do link are the most important ones. Go do a google news search using the term "poker" and see what your search returns. Im sure you can come back to us with 20 articles of the same quality as the ones i post each week in no time.

I have no problem with constructive cristism when it is in fact constructive....

cubs

CLC 01-20-2005 06:49 PM

Re: \"Poker Craze collides with state laws\"
 
I just play for the fun of it. I REALLY don't care if I win or lose. No Really, I'm serious, No seriously I meant, I do I do, Really.

PsYcHo-ScHnAuZeR 01-20-2005 06:55 PM

Re: \"Poker Craze collides with state laws\"
 
Very good answer, although your assumption of the value of any article in the NYT is very misplaced. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

If you happen to read one article next week that just reaches out and grabs you by the balls, just make sure you point that out, that this is the one article we should all be reading first and foremost. We are relying on you to tip us off to these premium selections. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Poker Jet 01-20-2005 07:00 PM

Re: \"Poker Craze collides with state laws\"
 
WIERD CAUSE Omaha NE has Amber Bock beer sponsoring poker tourneys for a WPT Seat with no buyin in bars, and Iowa has allowed Texas Hold'em for some time --- been playing Wednesday nights at a local bowling alley.

Cubswin 01-20-2005 07:06 PM

Re: \"Poker Craze collides with state laws\"
 
Love it or hate it, the NYT has the second largest circulation in the country (i think). The value of any poker article in it comes from the size of the paper's audience and its reach.... hence any article in there is a mandatory read... likewise, anything in the Wall Street Journal, US Today, LA Times, Chi Trib etc etc are also required readings....

cubs

PsYcHo-ScHnAuZeR 01-20-2005 07:14 PM

Re: \"Poker Craze collides with state laws\"
 
I disagree. The content of the article matters, not the circulation. If the NYT has another "Teens are into Poker" article tomorrow, just skip over it.

The NYT circulation is only about 1.6 million in a country of 300 million.

Cubswin 01-20-2005 07:40 PM

Re: \"Poker Craze collides with state laws\"
 
I disagree. The content of the article matters, not the circulation. If the NYT has another "Teens are into Poker" article tomorrow, just skip over it.

My records show that there have been 4 poker/e-gaming related articles in the past 3 months in the NY Times... one dealt with the teen poker fad, two dealt with the WTO and one deal with the Isle of Man taking bets from US residents. I think they this shows they are doing a decent job covering the most important happenings. Maybe your reading a different paper then i am though?

The NYT circulation is only about 1.6 million in a country of 300 million.

The day the most recent WTO poker article appeared in the Times three of my non-poker playing friends emailed me a link to the article. None of these 3 friends subscribes to the Times.

ebranig 01-22-2005 03:01 AM

Re: \"Poker Craze collides with state laws\"
 
[ QUOTE ]

"It's the soup of the day. It's very popular," said Frank Ball, director of Minnesota's Alcohol and Gambling Enforcement Division. But, he said, "It's not gin rummy. It's not 500. It's not hearts. Those are all games of skill. This is a random game, and it's a gamble."

[/ QUOTE ]

Someone needs to find Frank Ball's phone number so this board can swamp him with calls.


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