Warren\'s book?
 

Hey everyone. I'm a newbie here, I have been playing for a few weeks on PP at 0.5/1. I'll post some stats later, but for now I have a book question.

I gather Warren's book isn't very much liked, and that's fine by me. I've SSHE, TOP, and HFAP on order and will get them soon. However, I picked up Warren teaches Hold'em, and I'm wondering why it's not liked. Is it just plain bad poker? Is it questionable but mostly all right? OK, but not liked because of all the superior quality stuff around? How much of it should I keep for my current play while I wait for the other books to come?

Thanks in advance for the advice.

Re: Warren\'s book?
 

What's the matter with you!?!?!
Don't you know you should only be reading 2+2 books!? Everything else is CRAP!

Re: Warren\'s book?
 

Click on this and scroll down to almost the end. Also, I think you should get Winning Low Limit Hold'em by Lee Jones or Internet Texas Hold'em by Matt Hilger as a first book, before moving on to TOP and SSH.

Mason's book reviews

Re: Warren\'s book?
 

warren may be a bit easier to read at times, but his work is generally junk. I would point out specific examples, but I have since rid myself of the book of his I had.

Re: Warren\'s book?
 

Warren was the first book I bought.

I confess, I began to have problems when he started stereotyping people.

Suggesting women were 'bad' players. All old people are tight passive, etc.

(Assuming I'm remembering the right book).

I put it down, and bought Sklansky's Hold 'em Poker, (not for advanced players). Which I found more to my liking.

Lee Jones or Hilger, are also good beginning books.

Re: Warren\'s book?
 

[ QUOTE ]
What's the matter with you!?!?!
Don't you know you should only be reading 2+2 books!? Everything else is CRAP!

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you nothing better to do with your time than rip on 2+2's publishings?

Re: Warren\'s book?
 

I am a big supporter of reading as much about poker as possible (2+2 book, and non-2+2 books alike. However, I have no desire to read anything written by Mr. Warren. From what I have read of his book(s)and from reviews, discussion, and opinions (not only on this site but many other places as well) I believe there is little to gain and much to lose from reading Mr. Warren's books.

Re: Warren\'s book?
 

wtf are you talking about i said everything that isn't 2+2 is crap!

Re: Warren\'s book?
 

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wtf are you talking about i said everything that isn't 2+2 is crap!

[/ QUOTE ]

That's all you ever say in any of your posts (which tend to be completely useless). I sense a large amount of sarcasm in all of these posts. I have also heard that you're some kind of Lee Jones "fanboy" and now have some personal problem with 2+2 because of SSH.

I could be wrong and it, certainly, wouldn't be the first time. If so I apologize.

Re: Warren\'s book?
 

Ohhhh, you "heard" this?
In the twoplustwo.com gossip magazine?

Re: Warren\'s book?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ohhhh, you "heard" this?
In the twoplustwo.com gossip magazine?

[/ QUOTE ]

Right here on the forums actually. Are you saying it's false?

p.s. There's no need for you to be such a dick about this.

Re: Warren\'s book?
 

That's all you ever say in any of your posts (which tend to be completely useless). I sense a large amount of sarcasm in all of these posts. I have also heard that you're some kind of Lee Jones "fanboy" and now have some personal problem with 2+2 because of SSH.

Eh, yeltzen's ok. He rips on my book, but some of the stuff he says is really funny, so it's all good. This one was choice.

Mason called him Boris too, which is cool.

Re: Warren\'s book?
 

That is funny. I guess I rest my case. Maybe you should put him on the payroll for marketing purposes.

Re: Warren\'s book?
 

Maybe you should put him on the payroll for marketing purposes.

I don't have a payroll. I'm just a pawn... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Warren\'s book?
 

The 5 or 10 minutes a day that I leave my house, I have a t-shirt with the cover of SSH silkscreened on the front. If they put me on the payroll, I'll have the back cover put on the back.

Re: Warren\'s book?
 

[ QUOTE ]
He rips on my book.

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You got my money. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
Mason called him Boris too, which is cool.

[/ QUOTE ]
Mason knows me personally.

Re: Warren\'s book?
 

All right. I was all happy of the 14 new replies, but the majority were all replies to the troll. Oh well. At least a few people piped in about the book [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

I haven't read any of the stereotyping, but I haven't read all the book yet. If it's the same book, that's awful for sure.

Now. A question related to this. What would you think about a local billiards/gambling store not having Sklansky in stock, suggesting Warren's book enthusiastically before inviting me to their tournaments. Trying to fleece the sucker or just don't know any better? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Hopefully my real books will get here soon... hehe.

Re: Warren\'s book?
 

Best advice ever is his section on playing against players with tattoos. He believe that is a player is stupid enough to permanently mark their body, then they cannot possibly be a good poker player.

Freakin

Re: Warren\'s book?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Best advice ever is his section on playing against players with tattoos. He believe that is a player is stupid enough to permanently mark their body, then they cannot possibly be a good poker player.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, are we kidding here? I had some issues with the first such thing raised up, now this? I find nothing of this at all in my book. Are you guys talking about some other book than "Ken Warren Teaches Texas Hold'em"? If not, please do point out where those statements appear in there. I haven't read any of this crazy stuff.

Re: Warren\'s book?
 

I believe its in the section about player images. He talks about how crippled people in wheelchairs tend to be tigher players, cause they aren't going anywhere for a while. And the part about tattoos. And i believe a little something about women, and likely some hugely offensive racial stereotypes.

Freakin

Who the hell is Ken Warren?
 

Warren first wrote Winners Guide to Texas Holdem. That book had you folding hands like QJ suited unless you were in late position. Ultra weak-tight strategy.

Not satisfied with his first book sales, err, book, he then writes Ken Warren Teaches Texas Holdem.

So what does he do? He says play any hand that adds up to 21 and suited aces and pairs. The total opposite extreme of his first book. Anyone really think KT offsuit is profitable in early position?

The man has no credibility, much less authority, to instruct anyone how to play.

Re: Warren\'s book?
 

I think Warren's book is one of the best, if not THE best beginning HOld'em books there is. Both of them.

Re: Warren\'s book?
 

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I think Warren's book is one of the best, if not THE best beginning HOld'em books there is. Both of them.

[/ QUOTE ]
You know I value your recommendations. Are you being serious this time? I have the first book and I didn't think it was terrible. It actually made me think of a few things for the first time. I've since forgotten what those things were. And binions, K+T<21.

Re: Warren\'s book?
 

Warren has two books out, I can't remember which one this was in, but I remember the comments about women, the aged, tattood people (didn't remember the one about the disabled or the racial ones, but maybe I decided to put the book down before I got to those).

Re: Warren\'s book?
 

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And binions, K+T<21.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't have the KW Teaches Holdem book. I sold it a long time ago. If I recall, hands that add up to 20 or 21 he says you can play at any time. I distinctly recall objecting to the recommendation because it would allow you to play KT offsuit UTG.

Here is Mason\'s review of KW Teaches Holdem
 

Ken Warren Teaches Texas Hold ’em (2 out of 10) by Ken Warren.

Even though this is a big book that covers many topics, much of it is quite confused once you get past the filler material. For example, keeping records by the day of the week has virtually no value (due to the large relative variance on small samples) and having as your usual “main objective to play your hand for one bet” (to see the flop) is a distorted view of hold ’em in particular and poker in general.

But it gets worse than this. The starting hand advice is off and should get you trapped with many second best hands while advice to fold hands for one bet on the flop that have some value is frequently wrong especially if the pot is big. Also, the author needs to realize that unless the pot is very large you want players to call one bet for two or three out hands (as opposed to folding for two bets) even though they will beat you on occasion, and it is frequently correct to slowplay hands like bottom set.

There’s also other inaccurate advice: His jackpot chapter assumes that player’s hands are statistically independent which is not true in community board games, he folds too often if the player in the blind bets the flop, he seems to think that players with four flushes (where two suited cards are in your hand) or open end straight draws will fold if it is two bets to them, when making decisions he often fails to take into account the possible action on future rounds, and much more.

Re: Warren\'s book?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I believe its in the section about player images. He talks about how crippled people in wheelchairs tend to be tigher players, cause they aren't going anywhere for a while.

[/ QUOTE ]

hahahahhaa, nice and PC [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Warren\'s book?
 

Sorry; no, I'm not being serious.
I've heard it's very bad, but I've never read it.

Thumbed through it today at the bookstore
 

Let's see - it gave the odds against picking up Aces at 221:1.

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

It says you can play any hand that adds to 20 or 21 (plus pairs and suited aces) from any position. No mention of suited connectors. That means limping UTG with KT offsuit is OK, but you can't play 87 suited on the button after 4 limpers.

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

And it gives several examples on when to raise on the flop to "exclude people", and all of them were top pair or better hands (including a flopped straight on a rainbow board)!

These are value raises, not raising to exclude people per se, and it shows Warren's fundamental misunderstanding of one of the important premises of TOP and SSHE - raising the flop when you are behind to increase your chances of winning (by knocking someone else out who might beat you when you catch your card).

Re: Thumbed through it today at the bookstore
 

i can't give examples of how bad ken warren teaches texas hold 'em is, b/c although it was my first poker book, i put it down and never picked it up again as soon as i found more useful books. i just went to the shelf to find some of the terrible advice, and can't even read a page. it's so worthless. it's about poker, and that's the best thing i can say for it.

however: it's a horrible teaching book.

Re: Thumbed through it today at the bookstore
 

[ QUOTE ]
Let's see - it gave the odds against picking up Aces at 221:1.

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]


[/ QUOTE ]

Thast's right isn't it??

What's Warren's Omaha book like?

Re: Thumbed through it today at the bookstore
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Let's see - it gave the odds against picking up Aces at 221:1.

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]


[/ QUOTE ]

Thast's right isn't it??

What's Warren's Omaha book like?

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1326 possible hands
6 possible AA hands

Odds against getting aces 1320:6 or 220:1. You have a 1 in 221 chance in getting aces, but chances and odds are different.

His Omaha book is worthless. I sold all my Ken Warren books on EBay.

Re: Warren\'s book?
 

IMO Ken Warren's books range from detrimental to useless for building your poker knowledge foundation. If you don't mind studying poker books written in a textbook style I would recommend reading some of the beginning books suggested above then reading the 2+2 books. The 2+2 books contain densely packed information but are no worse than freshman level math books in conceptual difficulty.

Re: Warren\'s book?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ken Warren's books range from detrimental to useless

[/ QUOTE ]


Speaking of reviews that would never make the dustjacket...

Barron Vangor Toth
www.BarronVangorToth.com