Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

I've been thinking recently about the ethics of professional poker playing, and there have been several good posts about the subject in the Psychology forum recently.

I play in home games for a living while attending graduate school. While I do enjoy the analytical and psychological aspects of Hold'em, I have grown increasingly disgusted with the addiction and depression that I see among the weak players in the game. While some of these players behave shamefully and elicit less sympathy, I can't help feeling badly for the nice players who seem to spiral in a cycle of addiction and lose twice the money that I make (or more). I continue by telling myself that I'm only going to play for a living for the two years in graduate school. After all, where else could I find a job with flexible hours that pays $42 an hour?

To the extent that we as poker players rely upon gambling addicts to make our living, how are we different than drug dealers? For anyone outside the range of legalized gambling, it is mandatory to play in underground, illicit home games where we feast upon the vices of the addicted gamblers. Although there are no physical effects of addicted gambling, the psychological, social and financial repercussions of addiction seem the same as those that arise from drug addiction.

I would especially like to hear from those who favor drug legalization to see if they perceive any difference between drug addiction and gambling addiction. I don't know much about the medical side of things, but perhaps Dr. Schoonmaker can comment on whether the biological components of various addictions are similar.

In the end, though, I haven't really acted on these reservations. I have not allowed these thoughts to penetrate my game and play unmercifully against them. After all, I need to do this to subsidize tuition and maintain a comfortable lifestyle while being a student. Or do I? Is this just the easy way out? For $42/hr.

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

I would compare playing poker professionaly to being in the casino business.

It's less like being a drug dealer than acting as an independent casino. You're not always focusing on "addictions" with poker.
Sometimes you just take the money from people who are there to have fun.

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You're not always focusing on "addictions" with poker.
Sometimes you just take the money from people who are there to have fun.

[/ QUOTE ]

This part at least is exactly like dealing drugs. Despite what the Thought Police would have you believe, the large majority of drug users are recreational. Only a small minority have serious addictions.

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

While an addiction is not a good thing, IMHO it still all comes down to personal choices and responsibility. I know that smoking is bad for me, and that I am addicted to cigarettes. I accept the responsibility for my decision, and if/when I am really ready to quit, I will make the decision and do what it takes to do so. The same goes with the addict fish who throw their money away to us. Many times it's not pretty, but they must take responsibility and make the choice to quit. Someone is going to get that money, why not you?

As far as drug dealing goes, I am also for it's legalization. If someone destroys their life because of it, it is almost always a product of their personal decisions.

It is not a moral issue, as propoganda would have us all believe. There is nothing wrong with any of these things by themselves, but abuse of these things makes them seem so.

There are many people hell bent on their own destruction, and there is nothing you or I can do to stop it. We can try and help when the opportunity presents itself, but I refuse to worry or feel bad about someone elses bad choices.

Perhaps I'm deluded myself, but that's my two cents...

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

I am with AngryCola about being an independent casino. That is why poker players are called 'fleas' at casino's, we contribute little and suck these little piles of cash out of the big Casino Cash Cow, taking a little here, a little there.

I think in a general sense addiction is relative to how it effects the community. If gambling addicts did not cause the community at large financial and other concerns it would not be considered an addiction. If Drugs could be strictly regulated like alcohol there would be no drug addicts, only tax income for the community. Extreme sports for example is an addiction but not yet considered in the same catagory as gambling and drugs.

In any human endeavor there are the three plus deviations people on each end of the scale. Just because we partake in their habit we are not responsible for their actions, imo.

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
We can try and help when the opportunity presents itself, but I refuse to worry or feel bad about someone elses bad choices.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very important part. We cant just watch a human being destroy His/her life, We must try to help. If they dont want help, there is really nothing we can do about it. Just hope that someone in their family, friends or someone close to them are able to help them.

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

Unfortunately, I know very little about gambling addiction, and nothing at all about its biochemisry..

I hope I'm better than a drug dealer, but I sometimes feel guilty, especially when someone is clearly losing money he can't afford.

Perhaps it's a rationalization, but I remind myself that people lose $10 billion a year in my home town, Las Vegas. Most of it gets lost in other games.

And I certainly did nothing at all to create their addiction. Drug dealers work very hard to create addicts. In fact, one of the arguments for legalization is that, without the profit motive, relatively few addicts would be created.

In support of that position is the fact that in England registered addicts can get drugs from pharmacies for low prices. England has far fewer addicts than we do.

At least they could when I lived there. You would see them lining up at Boots near Piccadilly just before midnight. They could fill their prescriptions at midnight.

I am not sure that the system is still in effect.

Regards,

Al

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

Nice question!

What do you believe about the "rightness" of playing poker successfully for a living, taking money from (perceived) defenseless, perpetually self-sabotaging and compulsive poker losers?

Apparently, it's a major conflict for you to take money from people you perceive as complusive gamblers. Whether they are complusive gamblers or not is actually a separate question......many here may tell you to take the $42 per hour and chill out. Others may tell you to stop it, right now. Stop taking money from poker losers, immediately.

Are these the only choices?

"As a man thinks in his heart, so IS he." -Proverbs 3:27

"... a house divided against itself will fall." -Luke 11:17

Do you think you are behaving like a scumbag when you take advantage of these poker losers? Then you ARE a scumbag, in your own sight. What can be worse than that?

Acting contrary to your beliefs will always cause serious stress, typically leading to a state of unhappiness.

You appear to be in conflict with your own deeply held beliefs about poker, poker winners, and poker losers.

Please pick one:

1. Change your behavior
2. Change your beliefs

Wonderful choices. Are there any others? No.



The book below may help you, if you decide to explore these ideas in more detail.

Meeting The Shadow

Good luck to you.



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"The editors have collected diverse opinions that point to the power, value and wisdom alive within the parts of ourselves that we most often deny, detest and fear. Readers just entering into awareness of the shadow side of personality and the worth of honoring rather than repressing it will find many valuable ideas that challenge traditional notions of 'good' and 'evil'. More experienced seekers on the paths of Shadow wisdom may find thoughts that confirm or deepen insights to unlock even greater personal power and creativity. The book is arranged into short essays, some of which come from various journals or other books. This approach allows the reader to gain little tastes of various authors, which can lead to further exploration. I found this overview to be quite helpful. Sections introduce the concept of the Shadow; its developmental origins; somatic and sexual expressions; Shadow manifestations in relationships, work and society; deeply engrossing sections about Shadow energy in religion and psychology; techniques for coming to recognize and learn from the Shadow, etc. There is much wisdom in these pages, a wisdom which does not flinch from what betrays us, does not condemn what holds our secrets and shames, does not hold false promises or quick fixes for a topic that is central to personal and societal evolution. While most people will not show an interest or ability to recognize the Work that this topic points toward, those with the eyes, stomach and heart to accept a truly polished mirror will learn much about themselves."

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

I'm better than a drug dealer. Then again, I play micro-limits, so if I was a drug dealer, I'd be dealing Elmer's glue.

I won't get into all the arguments and what-not (and I see nothing at all morally wrong with gambling, by the way, as long as the game isn't actually rigged), but I do know that when I play poker, even the most addicted, terrible player out there still has a chance to take my money. I sit down at a table, someone else sits down at a table and we have a competition. Skill aside (there will always be skill differences), he has just as much chance to take my money as I do to take his.

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

I think that another important aspect of the drug trade that is lacking in your poker analogy is the outright violence it can cause. As long as you're not shooting other good players for your shot at the fish, i think the analogy is false. Its this violence, more than peoples concern for addicts, that drives most anti- drug dealer sentiment, imho.
Another poster also made the impt. point that most drug users, like most gamblers, are recreational and can, for the most part, afford their habits. just wanted to reiterate that one.

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

I really don't go along with that "someone's going to get that money, why not you?" argument.

Let's try "someone is going to roll that drunk, why not you?" "Someone is going to steal cable service, why not you?"

Yeah, gambling is legal, but if you're looking at it strictly from a moral perspective, it's hard to justify taking money from an out-of-control fool, even if there's a line of alternates standing behind you. It ain't your responsibility for "fixing" his out-of-controlness, but neither is it your responsibility to facilitate it.

Here's how I rationalize playing poker (assuming that I'd be an overall winning player):

When I first started playing, a dealer friend told me that poker players are all jerks. Since the poker boom started, I've seen absolutely nothing to seriously challenge his assertion. So, me winning is one jerk (me) bilking another jerk out of his/her money. Symmetry is preserved.

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

A true professional doesn't pity anyone. Not even himself.

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am with AngryCola about being an independent casino. That is why poker players are called 'fleas' at casino's, we contribute little and suck these little piles of cash out of the big Casino Cash Cow, taking a little here, a little there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't worry, many winning poker players pockers get lighter as they pass the sports book and craps tables...

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
A true professional doesn't pity anyone. Not even himself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice to know that sociopathy shows no sign of abating.

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

I agree with the last poster that the major beef most drug opponents have is with the violence that it tends to cause, rather than through an overt sense of charity for the well-being of their fellow man.

I personally support the legalization of drugs because I believe the war on drugs actually increases the demand, price, and desire for drugs in the USA. I think that making them legal could move them into the public eye and subject them to closer scrutiny instead of being a hidden problem. I believe that drug abuse is a medical, rather than criminal problem.

NOW, the question is whether or not we are any better than drug dealers. I say yes, we are, because this is still a game. Money is not the point of poker; the game is. Money is just the way we keep score.

For those who play poker professionally, you are not "dealing" anything. You are taking all comers who wish to challenge you. If they are poor challenges, or are otherwise unable to win, then they lose, because someone has to lose.

Let's not forget something, people: Addiction is nothing but another leak in someone's game. Brush away all that other rhetoric, and in terms of poker, addiction is just a hole in someone's game, nothing more. We all fight it, in one way or another, because mostly we would rather be at a poker table than doing 80% of the things we have to do in life.

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

That's funny! Reminds me of a new strategy I learned just last week:

"If you do not have enough money to play at the limit you want, you play a higher limit winning just one hand. Then you have enough money play on in your normal game."

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

IMO, poker players are morally better than casinos. Casinos offer games that can't be beaten. (with a few exceptions like blackjack, or rare situations like biased roulette wheels)Winning poker players win by virtue of superior skill and knowledge, not by offering a game with an unbeatable house edge. Of course, both poker players and casinos make some of their money from compulsive, addicted gamblers who really can't afford their losses, and some from recreational gamblers who feel that they are getting their money's worth in entertainment.

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Its this violence, more than peoples concern for addicts, that drives most anti-drug dealer sentiment, imho.

[/ QUOTE ]

The violence in the drug trade is a direct consequence of the illegality of drugs.

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
If Drugs could be strictly regulated like alcohol there would be no drug addicts, only tax income for the community.

[/ QUOTE ]

"The violence in the drug trade is a direct consequence of the illegality of drugs."


Maybe I'm missing the point in these comments, but, they seem a little short sighted. While legal, strictly regulated and taxed with impunity, alcohol causes untold misery to million upon millions of lives every year. Violence doesn't only come from the muzzle of a gun. It also comes in the form of the drunk driver, the drunken, abusive spouse/parent, and many other forms contrived in the minds of those under the influence. Yeah, people get killed in the drug trade, but let's not pretend the violence will stop with the passing of a few laws and some regulation. Maybe I just need to see some cold stats on the trade off of who gets hurt pre and post legalization. I also don't think comparing another countries policies and stats to ours is an indicator. It's a different game here. Many things have an influence. Gun regulation is just one.
I am completely open to different viewpoints.

Oh, and I do not think playing winning poker is anything like drug dealing. If you're uncomfortable, Dan gave a couple great suggestions.

Russ

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

I think we suffer from tunnel vision? We play poker and we see the addicted gamblers up front, at least in B & M. While your points are valid, problems like you describe are not just alcohol related.

Ever think about the food we eat and the clothes we wear? Some of people who grew our food or made our clothes are not as well off as share croppers or migrant workers in the US are. Some of the work is done by children, forced labor, and slavery. Some of those people are starving while they are filling up the boxes of produce to be shipped to us to eat from some country we can't even find on a map without a reference.

Or another example, an 83 year old chess set I own. It was made by some little kid (probably now dead btw) in Iraq who's family lived as nomads. I paid less than $100.00 for a chess set that took a child three months to make. He did not even have to worry about education, there were no schools. Probably the same situation today for some other little kids in that part of the world. And so on and so forth.

Human misery is everywhere, not just at the tables. If there were none we would continue to create it, so we could judge how we are doing compared to others.

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

Im really amazed at all the responses to this question. It seems there are a lot of players out there with questions in their minds about the moral aspects of "taking" someones money when that someone is clearly not in control.
Well, before you go blowing this out of proportion, keep in mind that there is a BIG difference between someone going on tilt at the table (acting compulsively), and someone who is "addicted" to gambling. I was reading an article in the Arizona Republic earlier this week about minors (teens) getting caught up in the texas hold'em home tourney craze, and one of the stats they quoted from a "reliable" source was that a WHOPPING 1% of adults develope a real gambling addiction. Thats 1 in 100. So, are the chances of you playing against a REAL addict all that great? Or is it more likely that your just playing against a bad player who is full of a mixture of testosterone and alchohol, or perhaps a decent poker player who just happens to have gone on tilt? In the event you are up against that 1%, once his money goes in the pot it is NO LONGER HIS MONEY, its the pots money. And I will fight for that money regardless where it came from if I have the goods. If you feel quilty about that, by all means, find some other way of filling your financial needs. Just let me know which games youll be leaving an empty seat in. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

Are we any better than drug dealers?

Yes.

Not even the same game, not even the same sport. A poker player cannot spend his or life behind bars.

If you feel quilty taking other players money, then quit playing or give back their money.

I think you wrote this post just to let the forum know you earn $42 an hour.

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

I'll just add that most of the people I've know that had what I would consider a gambling problem(at least to a point where their wins and loses affeced their lifestyle) were not people who would typically illict(sp?) sympathy from anyone. They were gererally surly,edgy people.

I must say that I sometimes feel bad for older, fixed income crowd when they have a bad day.(An it seems mutual toward me as a young person.) But we both made the choice to be there. I also, however, rejoice when I bust some of the generally ill-tempered and mean spirited people that one tends to find in casinos.

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

[ QUOTE ]

"The violence in the drug trade is a direct consequence of the illegality of drugs."

...

Maybe I just need to see some cold stats on the trade off of who gets hurt pre and post legalization.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's one:

http://davidetlinger.com/misc/drugmurders.gif

Certainly does not prove anything, but it is a startling visual.

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

Yeah, that's one of my personal favorites.

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

Here's one a little more up to date and a little less, oh, agenda heavy.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/totals.gif

Homicide rates recently declined to levels last seen in the late 1960's

* The homicide rate nearly doubled from the mid 1960's to the late 1970's.

* In 1980, it peaked at 10.2 per 100,000 population and subsequently fell off to 8.0 per 100,000 in 1984.

* It rose again in the late 1980's and early 1990's to another peak in 1991 of 9.8 per 100,000.

* From 1992 to 2000, the rate declined sharply. Since then, the rate has been stable.

And yet another:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/circumst.gif

Note: Arguments include brawls due to the influence of narcotics or alcohol,
disagreements about money or property and other arguments.

Felony types include homicides committed during a rape, robbery, burglary, theft, motor vehicle theft, arson, and violations of prostitution and commercial vice laws, other sex offenses, NARCOTIC DRUG LAWS, and gambling laws.

Sources is the Bureau of Justice Statistics website.

Russ

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

Would you feel any different if you played chess for money against people who you know are worse than you and who know you are better than them?

I feel bad for slots players, but half of that is probably because I personally am incapable of getting much if any enjoyment from playing them. In that regard, degenerate slots players should feel sorry for me because I lack the ability to have fun while playing.

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

I'm better than a drug dealer. I don't lie to the FDA about the risks in some new pain medication that I'm creating because my patents on old pain medications are up and I can't jack the price way up on those anymore, so I have to create some new (even if not better and with worse side effects) drug that I can peddle to mark way up and make billions off of. You were talking about some pharmaceutical compaines when you said "drug dealer," right?

But that's a "respectful" profession so long as the true logical elements underlying it are kept hidden/are rationalized. I think there's lots of examples of that out in our society. Because we have decided that capitalism is good, and that one can chase a buck at the expense of others and it's okay, I choose to take that standard and put playing poker in the context of it. When you break down the logical elements of a lot of professions, they're not so "high and mighty."

Which doesn't mean it's not depressing as hell/shouldn't make one with respect/sympathy for people feel somewhat crappy when you see degenerates peeing their money away at poker. But honestly, if you left the game and never played again, would they stop playing poker? Have you ever convinced a degenerate to stop gambling/playing poker? They are who they are and will continue to be who they are whether or not you're there.

I have enough ethics so that I'd never try and talk a known degenerate into playing in my game where they'd otherwise not play at all (or would otherwise play in a more "affordable" game) - for some that's good game selection/creation skills, to me that's crossing the line beyond where I want to go. But if they're playing, and there's a spot, I have no ethical qualms with jumping in and "skimming off the top" while the house collects their rake.

But I don't play live much, in part because the people are kind of depressing. Even though I know I can't change those people, I have sympathy and it makes me feel not so hot after a while. That's part of the appeal of playing online, you don't have to see the people you're playing against. If I had to slaughter my own cows and chickens, I might become a vegetarian (because of the depressing process, not the underlying ethics). Because I don't, I enjoy teriyaki chicken and a good steak on a regular basis.

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

the difference between a professional poker player and and a gambling addict is the EV in the plays they make. Thats all.

jb

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

Most of the drug dealers and poker players I know are good people IMO.

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Drug dealers work very hard to create addicts.

[/ QUOTE ]

This statement resembles nothing close to any drug dealer I've met. The product sells itself.

It does resemble casinos though.

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

Compulsive, damaging behavior is possible in any aspect of life. But is playing poker equivalent to dealing narcotics - of course not! What a moronic premise to begin with.

How many here honestly believe the two activities are equivalent, and if so why don't you deal narcotics as well?

Anyone here ever need a carbon infusion, gastric pumping, extended home care to recover, if ever, from a poker overdose?

Anyone ever lose their cousin to a physical addiction to hold'em? Ever need to tell your uncle its not his fault, even though his son said he had a problem and you tried to help?

Get over the melodramaic "let's try to make a controversy out of this" garbage. Most people know in their gut the two activities are not even close to equivalent.

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The product sells itself.

[/ QUOTE ]
No.... they work REAL hard to create addicts! They got it down to a science: from target selection to best method.

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The product sells itself.
[ QUOTE ]
No.... they work REAL hard to create addicts! They got it down to a science: from target selection to best method.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

This is nonsense. Utter nonsense. You should stop repeating Partnership for a Drug Free America propaganda and do some independent research.

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
And I certainly did nothing at all to create their addiction. Drug dealers work very hard to create addicts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Al, with all due respect, drug dealers simply don't spend a lot of time trying to create addicts. They focus on supply and distribution which, IMO, is a totally different thing. I have met quite a few drug dealers in my time and seen many more on the streets and in the clubs of NYC. I have never once seen one of them trying to convince anyone to buy their wares.

As a wise man, Chris Rock, once said: "Dealers don't sell drugs. They OFFER drugs. Drugs sell themselves. . . 'Cause people wanna' get high!"

Also, while you have never done anything to create someone's gambling addiction (and I would say the same about your typical dealer, unless you want to equate the mere supply of the drug with creating addicition, in which case your "supply" of a game, by your participation in it, can be equated with creating the gambling addiction, an idea that I think is absurd), what about the gaming industry at large. They are out there spending tens of millions of dollars on advertising to lure people into their casinos. While they may not want to create addicts they are tryin gto convince people who might not otherwise think to gamble to explore gaming (not that I think there is anything wrong with that). Now find me an underground drug operation with an advertising budget. Finally, while one could say that the gaming industry does not want addicts just responsible gamers (although it is inevitable some new gamers will end up as addicts), you could say the same of drug dealers. Not that they think about this a whole lot, but I am sure if given the choice your drug seller would like a responsible user who will be coming back ona regular basis for years to come rather than some who becomes an addict and is bust in a year.

On a side note I will concede that large parts of the illegal drug world is very violent. Of course that could be ended through legalization.

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

It is my personal philosophy that individuals are responsible for thier own actions. I'm not going to let some one's weight problem stop me from eating at Mcdonalds. Nor am I going to let someone's phychological problem (which would manifest itself elsewhere if poker didn't exist) stop me from enjoying the only mental challenge that I can find.

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
To the extent that we as poker players rely upon gambling addicts to make our living, how are we different than drug dealers?

[/ QUOTE ]

You seem to have the idea that ALL drug dealers rely SOLELY upon the hopelessly addicted, wretchful and pathetic people. While this is true in some instances, it is of course not ALWAYS true. There is, in the world of drugs, the same as in the world of poker, a spectrum and a range of men, methodoligies, and reality.

The person who buys a fair amount of marijuana, but sells some to their friends, is certainly not what I perceive your impression of a drug dealer to be.

The heroin dealer "down on the corner" who sells to the dirty needle sharing hopeless addicts IS what I am perceiving your impression of a drug dealer to be.

Remember, there are many degrees of reality in both the world of drugs and the world of poker. As long as their is demand for drugs, and there will ALWAYS be this demand, there will be people who meet that demand by selling drugs. Some will be good, some bad, and some ugly, just as in all areas of life.

Similarly, as long as there is a demand for poker, there will be poker games. People will win and lose. Some will be recreational players, some will be addicts. There is a spectrum of realities for poker players, just as their is for drug users and sellers. Not all losing poker players are hopeless gambling addicts. Of course I am not sure what the spectrum is in your area, but underground or not, I suspect that few are as pathetic as you seem to think they are. The fact is that the vast majority of people who gamble, and are LOSING gamblers, are not hopeless addicts or compulsive gamblers. I do not think that the presence of legalized (or not) gambling really affects this spectrum all that much, other than there might be a few more true gambling addicts in places where it's LEGAL, because it's more accessible.

Personally, I am in favor of most drugs (but not all) being legalized. I also have pretty extensive knowledge of the physical and biological aspects of drugs, particularly "recreational" ones. I believe that such matters are personal, not the domain of the friggin' state (especially since the relevant laws are typically composed by southern-baptist bible-belt type A-holes).

Drug addiction WILL occur in some % of people regardless of the legal/social/physical ramifications. The problem lies in that the legal problems are often so great as to completely ruin the lives of people who are simply addicted, and need help, rather than their lives ruined by pricks who run the legal system. I wonder who the REAL criminals are here, the drug addicts, or the people who exploit them to boost state revenues and keep the prison system machine going.

al

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

Al,

I must disagree with one of your points. The current system does NOT boost state revenues. A system under which drugs are taxed would do so.

The current system costs the government tens or perhaps even hundreds of billions of dollars for enforcement, incarceration, and lost tax revenues.

Regards,

Al

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

Many drugs do NOT sell themselves. I include heroin and cocaine, plus some others.

Drug dealer SELL drugs. They create demand by, for example, downplaying the addictive dangers, extolling the pleasures, and providing them free or at low cost to non-addicts.

Without this marketing, far fewer people would become addicted.

Regards,

Al

Re: Are we any better than drug dealers?
 

What's bad about drug dealers? I used to sell pot, and although I worried about the legality, never the morality.