hand against stoxtrader
 

stoxtrader is a very good player for those that don't know. anyways:

5-5 NL, 4 handed or so. I (750) open for 15 with hooks on the button SB folds and stox (600) makes it 45 straight in the BB, I call. flop is A 9 rag. stox deliberates for a long time and bets 60 into a $95 pot. my only read is he is very uncertain. your move?

--turnipmonster

Re: hand against stoxtrader
 

Fold, there's too much risk that he is trying to give you a reverse tell for a move to be good.

Re: hand against stoxtrader
 

I would call, just as you would do with AQ. He is almost certainly on QQ or KK here, and will probably check the turn. When he checks it you pot it.

If he bets the turn, I would probably raise a really small bet and fold otherwise. If you're certain in your read, though, I might raise it on the turn whether he bets small or not.

Re: hand against stoxtrader
 

Very nice meeting you guys last night turnip. It might be expensive to move him off of KK/QQ here, but I think it can be done. As you can see from last night, I generally don't tangle with those who post on the forum unless I can help it [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: hand against stoxtrader
 

assume my read is correct, although he could be uncertain for a number of reasons.

Re: hand against stoxtrader
 

i think stox is unlikely to do anything on the turn but bet 1/2-3/4 pot here if you call. moving him off of qq or kk (his most likely holdings) will be expensive and unsuccessful a large proportion of the time. I muck here and move on.

Re: hand against stoxtrader
 

I assume this is live?

Unless you've seen stoxtrader play this situation before, I'd muck it. His tell is probably genuine, but maybe not for the reasons you think. He could simply be deliberating whether or not to check AA, AK or AQ.

Garland

Re: hand against stoxtrader
 

stox is aggressive and usually plays limit - he doesn't check the flop and see the turn very often.

Re: hand against stoxtrader
 

gimme a break, moving him off KK or QQ should be easy, he's a good player. Once you call on the flop he will probably be done with it.

Re: hand against stoxtrader
 

I could certainly have chose a better game. I was kind of learning on the fly - My NL experience is limited to a few tournaments, which I know play much differently than a cash game.

you guys are giving me too much credit.

thoughts
 

my open from the button pretty much means I don't have 92o. I don't think stox needs AA-QQ to reraise me here. 4 handed, it's pretty much an auto openraise on the button.

also, neither of us are very deep and I think that is a big factor, or was for me at the time.

Re: hand against stoxtrader
 

[ QUOTE ]
His tell is probably genuine, but maybe not for the reasons you think.

[/ QUOTE ]

I only put uncertain, because I was unsure of what he was uncertain about. so I didn't assume he was weak, although he might be.

Re: hand against stoxtrader
 

Hey turnip,

If he's a limit player (albeit a good one), this is a good spot for the call-to-bluff. Chances are decent that he has KK/QQ. He will check the turn after you call that ragged flop unless he has AK/AA. And, unless there is some image consideration that we don't know about, you should be able to buy it with half-pot on the turn and river.

Hope it worked out.

Mike

Re: hand against stoxtrader
 

[ QUOTE ]
If he's a limit player (albeit a good one), this is a good spot for the call-to-bluff. Chances are decent that he has KK/QQ. He will check the turn after you call that ragged flop unless he has AK/AA. And, unless there is some image consideration that we don't know about, you should be able to buy it with half-pot on the turn and river.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're going for the "call on the flop to steal on the turn" move, I'm really hoping it doesn't need to go to the river!

Garland

Re: hand against stoxtrader
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If he's a limit player (albeit a good one), this is a good spot for the call-to-bluff. Chances are decent that he has KK/QQ. He will check the turn after you call that ragged flop unless he has AK/AA. And, unless there is some image consideration that we don't know about, you should be able to buy it with half-pot on the turn and river.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're going for the "call on the flop to steal on the turn" move, I'm really hoping it doesn't need to go to the river!

[/ QUOTE ]

Up against a limit player, I hope he calls the turn. 'Cause he ain't callin' the river.

ML4L

PS No offense, stox; you are an excellent limit player. But, I know when I transitioned from limit to NL, I would call a big bet on the turn and fold to a bigger one on the river all the time...

Re: hand against stoxtrader
 

[ QUOTE ]
If he's a limit player (albeit a good one), this is a good spot for the call-to-bluff. Chances are decent that he has KK/QQ. He will check the turn after you call that ragged flop unless he has AK/AA. And, unless there is some image consideration that we don't know about, you should be able to buy it with half-pot on the turn and river.


[/ QUOTE ]

Zigzactly! If you know your Stox will very likely only re-raise with a bigger pair and I would put him on a pocket pair too, you can slow play this hand like you have an Ace and trap him on the turn. If he has a pocket pair, he won't put you on one and given you just flat called his raise he might put you on AK or AQ or AJ.

Lawrence

results
 

I folded, no fireworks this time. raising was pretty much out of the question, as if he calls I have to be done with the hand and I think it's better to see if he blinks on the turn. any hand he would have folded to a flop raise he will also fold to a turn pot bet, and there are no scare cards.

in retrospect, I don't think folding is as bad as I initially thought, although for 2/3 pot I think I should have made him work for it a bit more. the flop bet does seem weak in retrospect, as I think he would give me a little rope if he had really hit.

the deciding factor for me was a lot of reraising hands of his have an ace, but I still think I should have considered the situation and his likely holding a little more carefully. ni han stox [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. would you have fired barrel two on the turn? I would have probably folded to a reasonable bet, and might have raised a 1/2 pot or less bet if I had called the flop. anything less than 1/2 pot on the turn I see as a blocking bet.

--turnipmonster

Re: results
 

that was the last money going into the hand from me, unless I saw a ten on the turn. No way do i have the nuts to fire again. The hardest decision for me was how much to bet.

I had TT.

Re: results
 

That preflop reraise was a limit players 3 bet, huh.

Interesting.

Re: hand against stoxtrader
 

[ QUOTE ]
stoxtrader is a very good player for those that don't know. anyways:

5-5 NL, 4 handed or so. I (750) open for 15 with hooks on the button SB folds and stox (600) makes it 45 straight in the BB, I call. flop is A 9 rag. stox deliberates for a long time and bets 60 into a $95 pot. my only read is he is very uncertain. your move?

--turnipmonster

[/ QUOTE ]

I would probably have call/bluffed, but I really like call/bluffing posters.

scrub

Re: hand against stoxtrader
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would probably have call/bluffed, but I really like call/bluffing posters.

[/ QUOTE ]

not nearly as much as i do [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]