30/60 bellagio
 

Typical 30/60 bellagio. Villan appears to be a nerdy nit and is a vegas regular. 30ish years old. This is his first or second orbit...

He overlimps UTG+1 and I raise mp1 with TT. Call or two and we take the flop 5 ways for 2 bets.

Flop QQ9r

checked to me and I bet, folded to nit who c/r. I 3bet, he calls.

Turn 4

he bets, I call.

river J

he bets, I fold.

/edit yeah sorry i forgot to include my hand the first time.

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

Looks good.

ps what did you have?

Edit: Now that I know your hand I'm not sure I like it. I have no idea though.

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

My guess for the villian: JT

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

Muck the turn against lame vegas regulars

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

Hey bk,

Any thoughts of calling the flop raise, raising the turn, and checking the river?

Rob

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

I think its not SOP for someone to play a Q like that, so I call them down. The J on the river is disconcerting, but I wouldnt think he had JT there, since he wouldnt expect you to fold the turn when he bet.

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

hey b-kicker,

what do you think of callling the flop checkraise and then raising the turn?

chris

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

[ QUOTE ]
hey b-kicker,

what do you think of callling the flop checkraise and then raising the turn?

chris

[/ QUOTE ]

RE: you and entity...

I think it's a far superior play than the line I took. I think simply calling down ind betting if checked too isn't bad either.

I absolutely hated that river J. I think I made a bad read based on his stop and go. When he c/r the flop it kinda felt like JT, but when he stop and go'd the turn I should have readjusted my read. That would be one helluva curve to play JT that way. As mason later said at supper, when he bet the turn it looks like he's trying to protect a pair against AK or get me off a hand. He said he wouldn't have 3 bet the flop, but by that point I had came to that conclusion myself...it was good to hear it and also that you guys are advocating not 3 betting the flop.

I never found out/inquired about his hand so there are no results. This hand still tastes kinda funny in my mouth. I would definately be open to other thoughts if anyone has any.

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

Seems a bit wierd for a "nerdy nit Vegs regular" to limp up front with J,T. Also uncharacteristic for him to lead on the turn with a draw on a paired board into the preflop raiser and flop 3 bettor. I think if Bike's read is correct here then he actually does have a Queen and either holds KQ, or QJs

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

Nit would have played any pair this way. I think you should have called him down.

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

hey biker,

the fact that you said that he's a nerdy nit makes me feel like the fold is okay, but when i was playing at that same bellagio 30 game, there were a lot of live "regulars" there that would play something like A9 or even a medium pocket pair that way thinking a "real" hand would smoothcall the flop c/r and raise the turn.

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

If im calling the turn, Im calling the river. Nothing has really changed given his play. Or were you planning on folding to any overcard to your tens? You just represented an overpair to him and he's still betting into you on the turn. Here you're either going to showdown, or folding.

Im not putting him on a draw. Why c/r the flop HU with no one in between? He's not likely getting a free card with his position. I think he has a hand. May not be a Q, but how does he play trips? Most won't play it that way, but who knows, maybe. You went that far, call 1 more and find out. Then use it later in the session.

b

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

3 bet the flop. Why wouldnt you. He overlimps UTG+1 he could have had 9 hands that he would probably play this way. any pair j10 (doubtful) q10 qj kq thats about it. When he checkraises the flop heads up like that the chances of him having a queen usualy are not good. Especialy in vegas. So 3 bet the flop cuz u have the best hand and people dont f*ck with you. When he bets into you on the turn raise or fold. If your convinced he has a queen fold. If not raise, and your going to find out really quick weather he has a queen or not. Raising the turn in this situation is so much better than call call. Especialy when your a "flop pounder" like me.

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

Typical 30/60 bellagio

Do you live there now?

As for the hand, I can't calling the turn if you are not going to call the river, over or not. Plus, I call the turn c/r and raise the river. You are way ahead or way behind.

Go Pats!
Joe Tall

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

Go read the B&M trip report for BK's trip report...don't think he'll live there anytime soon though [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

fold the turn

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

No sir. I'd just been playing it for 3 days by this point and it seemed pretty regular. I think a lot of the people in vegas suck and I'd really never want to live there.

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

I can't calling the turn if you are not going to call the river, over or not. Plus, I call the turn c/r and raise the river. You are way ahead or way behind.

AL.......ahh nevermind

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

I don't like the three-bet on the flop, but everyone already said that. I would go into call-down mode on the flop and all the way to the river. I don't ever get bluffed out of heads up pots like this. Then again, I don't do that well at poker either...

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

dont listen to that last post, call down mode... "weak and passive" is not how u wanna play,

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

I didnt do to the math to see how many BB's are in the pot, but i think there are about 7. He only needs to be overplaying A9 here 1 time in seven, i say call.

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

you can go ahead and release on the turn when you dont fill up if you plan to wait for him to fire the final bullet and then give up anyway. he has a Q every time here if he's a vegas nit like youre thinking and going ahead and giving him NO ACTION is the way to go.

i dont think anything ive said here is helpful, but that's about all there is to say on the topic i guess.

one more thing: these sorts of vegass nits like to show hands without a showdown so you will smile at them and like them, they tend to have no life outside of the poker room, and being told theyre tight and deserve respect is like patting a dog on the head, they lap it up. so go ahead and politely say something like "gee you must have king queen minimum" or i guess my pocket pair is no good this time?" before you fold and they will oftentimes show you the Q when you laydown on the turn. then you have the best of both worlds, you make the right laydown and get to confirm what they have. again this works very very well against mediocres who think theyre good.

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

[ QUOTE ]
they tend to have no life outside of the poker room

[/ QUOTE ]

like you do?

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
they tend to have no life outside of the poker room

[/ QUOTE ]

like you do?

[/ QUOTE ]

He likes to bowl, apparently.

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

[ QUOTE ]
He likes to bowl, apparently.

[/ QUOTE ]

So did worm.

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

of course i have a life outside of poker. in fact just last night gabe and i left our games at commerce and went out to do something else.

we went over to the bike to have a quick dinner with rick and play some 30-60. then we went back to commerce.

and last night i slept. and right now im posting on 2+2.

so yes i do have things i do other than play poker all the time.

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

I think this is awesome advice. All of it.

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

[ QUOTE ]
so yes i do have things i do other than play poker all the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

...like eat at Pink's?

I tried to go to Pink's the other day, but the line was enormous, filled with UTex and UMich fans from the Rose Bowl. I recently moved into a house on Melrose a mile east of it, so I will try again soon, since I have yet to eat it before 2am and sober. I saw the cart at HP the other day but it looked like a guy boiled Oscar Meyer weiners and slapped a "Pink's" sign on it.

I told my friend that they had great chili cheese fries and she asked who I heard that from. When I told her it was from a poker board, she gave me the "you're insane" look.

I'm sure I'll like it more than you liked Johnnie's, though.

DN

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

[ QUOTE ]
and right now im posting on 2+2.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cool. Now try and post some interesting hands instead of the routine nonsense you've been posting.

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

30-60 at the Bike?

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

Yes. It was short so we just sat in. I had chips on the table at the Commerce while we were playing at the Bike. Someone told Jack I went to the Bike to eat, so he picked me up. There were some bigger games also. I guess there is a tournament there or something. I don't know. Ask Rick.

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

[ QUOTE ]
so go ahead and politely say something like "gee you must have king queen minimum" or i guess my pocket pair is no good this time?" before you fold and they will oftentimes show you the Q when you laydown on the turn. then you have the best of both worlds, you make the right laydown and get to confirm what they have. again this works very very well against mediocres who think theyre good.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't even play that high, but I would imagine this would work in mid limits as well. Great post Mike.

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

"I saw the cart at HP the other day but it looked like a guy boiled Oscar Meyer weiners and slapped a "Pink's" sign on it."

no that's definitely not the case. theyre good. get the spicy polish with cheese chili onions mustard and sauerkraut on the side. yum.

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

i dont play interesting hands anymore. i never get out of line. i play bad sometimes, but dont get out of line with wacky raises that dont work anymore. poker is boring, there's nothing interesting about limit hold em. that's why you post like 1 hand every 3 months and it's usually not interesting either, although the multitudes of clueless posters who debate them with you seem to find them very confusing.

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

some movie stars and stuff play 300-600 and 400-800 there pretty frequently. yet at commerce the biggest game theyll have will be 1-2 or maybe 150-300. jerry buss was walking in the front when gabe and i got there and we quickly walked right in front of him in a hurry to find rick and eat pinks.

the 30-60 game went like this: i talked gabe into sitting down and he proceeded to win the biggest pot of the night on his first hand with no showdown. then he proceeded to win more hands with no showdown. then i got pissed watching gabe win all those pots so i got way out of line with T8o and put in tons of bets preflop and on the flop with him and sucked out on him on the turn. then i looked at him and said, let's please go im up $300 and i want to savor my victory, so he agreed and we left. good times.

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

[ QUOTE ]
i dont play interesting hands anymore. i never get out of line. i play bad sometimes, but dont get out of line with wacky raises that dont work anymore. poker is boring, there's nothing interesting about limit hold em. that's why you post like 1 hand every 3 months and it's usually not interesting either, although the multitudes of clueless posters who debate them with you seem to find them very confusing.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's always OOT.

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

[ QUOTE ]

There's always OOT.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mike's few posts in OOT are gold, you just gotta search for them.

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

Yeah, Johnny Marr is pretty cool.

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

[ QUOTE ]
of course i have a life outside of poker. in fact just last night gabe and i left our games at commerce and went out to do something else.

we went over to the bike to have a quick dinner with rick and play some 30-60. then we went back to commerce.

and last night i slept. and right now im posting on 2+2.

so yes i do have things i do other than play poker all the time

[/ QUOTE ]

This reminds me of the Terance Chan list of "you know you have a poker problem when..."

You've been playing far too much hold 'em lately, you think you might have a problem, and decide to take a break. And play some Omaha. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]


Trying to remember some of the other ones, too lazy to find the link...

- You laugh at the $3.00 ATM fee at the local cardroom, yet you seriously debate whether its worth it to "super size" your lunch.

- You can instantly divide a roll of quarters into ten perfect stacks of 4.

- Its not the winning lottery ticket, its the "nut ticket"

- At a restaurant you tip your waitress right after she brings the drinks.

Re: 30/60 bellagio
 

A fine example of how to throw away money to A9s, T9s or 55-88. You should have called the river. I like your play okay other than that. He looks like a man with either a 9 or a lower pocket pair to me, but the chances of him having something better make calling the turn okay. Raising the turn and folding to a 3bet would also be a fine play, but since you're paying 2bets either way, it's probably better to see a showdown with your hand.