Poker Etiquette....?
 

Hello all. In a recent home game a poker etiquette question arose. Well, really I have the question.

NLHE: I was slow playing a set I made on the flop when a 3 hit the turn. My hole cards were Q,J. When it was my turn to act, I bet, while stating almost under my breath, "Ooh, I have a three"

When it came time to showdown, my opponent saw my cards and said, "You didn't have a 3. That's bad poker etiquette."

My question to you all is..Is that bad poker etiquette? As poker players, isn't it our duty to mislead by our actions and what we say?

I would love to get some folks opinion on this. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Thanks,

Lolo

Re: Poker Etiquette....?
 

My Grandpa used to tell me "Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see." I use that advice playing cards. If you'd been telling the truth it would be more of a breach of etiquette.
peace.
unloaded

Re: Poker Etiquette....?
 

hahah... it's mean but it's not unethical. And really, EVERYONE still in the hand had a trey.

Re: Poker Etiquette....?
 

tell your buddy to get bent you're not in the UK, are you?

I host a home game regularly (w/ a few 2+2ers) and we lie to each other all the fekking time haha

Serious we are all good friends but I don't believe a damn thing they tell me (same is true of them as well). I believe what they show me.

Unless you have a stated rule prohibiting talking about your hands at the table during the hand there's nothing wrong with what happened.

PG

Re: Poker Etiquette....?
 

Just remember it's a home game, and the "relationship" goes beyond the felt here.

Re: Poker Etiquette....?
 

It would only be bad Poker Eiquette if you accidently knocked over the table because you were laughing so hard from his comment.

Re: Poker Etiquette....?
 

Unless you have a specific rule banning talking about a hand while in play, I think it's fine.

The only Etiquette violation is your opponent calling you down thinking you had a pair of 3's.

Re: Poker Etiquette....?
 

Just a nitpick but, if you had QJ in your hand, how could you have a set?

That said, I have no problem with what you did. We do it all the time in our home game. It's part of the fun. We tell our opponents we have a set when we've got a flush draw, and tell them we've got a flush draw when we've got a set.

I recall one particular NL hand against a friend who is still a little too eager to tell folks how to play. The flop was K95 (suits don't matter). He bet big. I asked him what he had. He said "pocket fives". I told him that's what I had, too.

Turn was another nine. He pushed, I called. He showed K9, I showed KK. I think he honestly believed I had 55 when he pushed. I knew he didn't, or he would have raised big pre-flop. I had no qualms about taking his money, we're still friends, and he's burned me once or twice since.

Re: Poker Etiquette....?
 

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Just a nitpick but, if you had QJ in your hand, how could you have a set?

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QQ or JJ as part of the flop. He didnt say specifically since the turn 3 was the focus of his narration.

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That said, I have no problem with what you did. We do it all the time in our home game. It's part of the fun. We tell our opponents we have a set when we've got a flush draw, and tell them we've got a flush draw when we've got a set.


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I'll get "goofy" at some points especially when I'm winning. I'll make it seem like I can do NO wrong with my hands. I'll show down a couple of nut hands, unlikely straights or whatever. Then I'll start saying stuff like "glad I raised with 72 offsuit" when a deuce and a seven flop, and turn over 72o because I'll know they think I was lying. Or some turn card comes (ANY card) and I'll say Oh no! Not a King! Anything but a King! ... and I'll be grinning at them. They'll call me down at the river and I'll flip over KK. Then I'll keep doing the same things without having the hands but they won't call me. This won't be "lying" but it'll be deceiptful, and it's fun.

Ten

Re: Poker Etiquette....?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just a nitpick but, if you had QJ in your hand, how could you have a set?

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QQ or JJ as part of the flop. He didnt say specifically since the turn 3 was the focus of his narration.

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I don't mean to nitpick either, but that would be trips, not a set.

Onaflag........

Re: Poker Etiquette....?
 

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Just a nitpick but, if you had QJ in your hand, how could you have a set?

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QQ or JJ as part of the flop. He didnt say specifically since the turn 3 was the focus of his narration.

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I don't mean to nitpick either, but that would be trips, not a set.

Onaflag........

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trips is another word for a set...
but i don want to be a nitpick, of course [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Poker Etiquette....?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just a nitpick but, if you had QJ in your hand, how could you have a set?

[/ QUOTE ]

QQ or JJ as part of the flop. He didnt say specifically since the turn 3 was the focus of his narration.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't mean to nitpick either, but that would be trips, not a set.

Onaflag........

[/ QUOTE ]

trips is another word for a set...
but i don want to be a nitpick, of course [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]Obviously I do want to nitpick - a set usually implies a PP in the hand, trips can be any three-of-a-kind.

More seriously, many games (home and in casinos) follow the Etiquette rules that "Revealing the contents of a live hand in a multihanded pot before the betting is complete." is bad etiquette (taken from Bob Ciaffone's Robert's Rules of Poker v4 - although technically speaking you weren't revealing the contents of your hand, you were lying.

Most importantly though, if most people in the game believe it to be Bad Etiquette then you should either comply with their wishes or persuade them to change their minds - otherwise you won't get invited back. It's all well and good to laugh at their naivety, but you won't get much change to exploit it if you never get invited.

ZB

Re: Poker Etiquette....?
 

As far as I know it, it's against the rules to talk about what you have in your hand. I remember specifically one situation in a tournament on tv where a player made some comment about the hand he had while still in the hand, and TJ Cloutier flipped out on him and told him he'd get him kicked out of the tourney if he did that again.

Saying what you have in your hand, true or false, is a definite poker no-no. As far as being in europe, there rules are no talk at the table period. You can't say a thing.

Re: Poker Etiquette....?
 

I can't imagine a home game where you can't BS about your hand. Frankly, I can't imagine not being able to do this anywhere -- are people really supposed to believe you? Please...

Ah, and no, it's not a set. Trips.

Re: Poker Etiquette....?
 

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Ah, and no, it's not a set. Trips.

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Ok, let the expert step in here. Set is, in Egyptian religion, god of evil. Set was a sun god of predynastic Egypt, but he gradually degenerated from being a beneficent deity into being a god of evil and... Oh wait, did i get off topic? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Ten

Re: Poker Etiquette....?
 

I think the OP's question has been answered effectively, so if I may go OT one last time, Dahlberg, I politely say you're wrong. As pointed out, a set means you have pocket pairs and trips imply any three of a kind. They are not the same thing when sitting around a table playing cards. When I hear people say they have a set when they have trips, a couple of us look at each other and giggle. No big deal and who even cares but the most anal? I'll not hijack again. I promise. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Onaflag..........

Re: Poker Etiquette....?
 

People aren't supposed to believe me, per se. The fact is that at a casino you are not supposed to divulge what you have in your hand, truthfully or otherwise. What people do at their home games is their own business. I know at any home game or tournament I host, I like to keep things as much like the casino as I can and don't allow people to "bs" or whatever what they have in their hands. If this guy wants to allow that, that is fine, the fact is that as far as strict poker etiquette goes, if there is such a thing, saying what is in your hand is very bad etiquette.

Re: Poker Etiquette....?
 

Differnet casinos have very differnt rules about what you can and can't do. For example, at my home casno it's not unusual when head-up for one player to expose one of his cards to gage an opponent's reaction.

As far as mentioning he has a 3. This is part of the game and if you believe him you're probably not going to be very successful at poker. There's a tremendous amount of gray area in this topic and there's also a huge differnce between home games, live games and tournaments. In most tournaments exposing cards will get you at least a warning if not a penalty while as I said, the rules vary in live games. In home games this really shouldn't be an issue.

Re: Poker Etiquette....?
 

I think some of the rules are too nitty for my tastes, especially at low limits... If some guy wants to start spouting off about how he just hit his kicker, let him. But I realize, there are rules which say otherwise.

As for home games, sounds like we have different types.

Re: Poker Etiquette....?
 

Do you let someone pee on your shoe and then believe them when they tell you it is raining? Your friend needs to relax. The only thing I care about is if someone tries to look at somebody's cards on a fold. Good luck!

Re: Poker Etiquette....?
 

Here are robert rules (see bold area):

POKER ETIQUETTE
The following actions are improper, and grounds for warning, suspending, or barring a violator:

Deliberately acting out of turn.

Deliberately splashing chips into the pot.

Agreeing to check a hand out when a third player is all-in.

Reading a hand for another player at the showdown before it has been placed faceup on the table.

Telling anyone to turn a hand faceup at the showdown.

Revealing the contents of a live hand in a multihanded pot before the betting is complete. Revealing the contents of a folded hand before the betting is complete. Do not divulge the contents of a hand during a deal even to someone not in the pot, so you do not leave any possibility of the information being transmitted to an active player.

Needlessly stalling the action of a game.

Deliberately discarding hands away from the muck. Cards should be released in a low line of flight, at a moderate rate of speed (not at the dealer's hands or chip-rack).

Stacking chips in a manner that interferes with dealing or viewing cards.

Making statements or taking action that could unfairly influence the course of play, whether or not the offender is involved in the pot.

Using a cell phone at the table.

Re: Poker Etiquette....?
 

[ QUOTE ]

trips is another word for a set...
but i don want to be a nitpick, of course [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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No, a set is another word for trips.

All humans are mammals. All mammals are not humans.

Re: Poker Etiquette....?
 

Common misconception. It can be either.

From the poker dictionary:

set

1. (n) In hold 'em and stud, three of a kind. To flop a set in hold 'em means that (most often) one started with a pair and one of those cards was among the flop (the first three community cards). Less often it means a pair was among the flop and the player had another card of that rank in the hole.

Re: Poker Etiquette....?
 

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Making statements or taking action that could unfairly influence the course of play, whether or not the offender is involved in the pot.

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I don't consider that "unfair" at all - it's the psychological part of the game. "Unfair" to me would be something like someone out of the hand talking someone else into calling an all-in when he he was originally going to fold.

Re: Poker Etiquette....?
 

A Set is when you have a Pocket pair and the 3rd card on the board.

Trips is the opposite.

Re: Poker Etiquette....?
 

I am quoting Robert's Rules here thats all. I still wouldnt want anyone talking about the hand either. It was still the other players fault for believing the guy in the first place.

Scotty O

Re: Poker Etiquette....?
 

[ QUOTE ]
A Set is when you have a Pocket pair and the 3rd card on the board.

Trips is the opposite.

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see my previous post re: common misconception. it's all slang. people generally don't use them interchangeably, but the fact of the matter is, 3-of-a-kind is a poker hand that can be called a set or trips in any situation. but you guys keep exchanging those "knowing" glances whenever someone "misuses" the term...LOL! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Poker Etiquette....?
 

Just JYI but 2+2 books do make the distinction and don't confuse the two. Anbd most people are going to regard those books w/ the highest standard over other poker books. That's why others are probably mentioning it.

Re: Poker Etiquette....?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Just JYI but 2+2 books do make the distinction and don't confuse the two. Anbd most people are going to regard those books w/ the highest standard over other poker books. That's why others are probably mentioning it.

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The only one I have in my immediate vicinity is Sklansky and Malmuth's HEPFTAP, and in the glossary, they define a set as simply "three-of-a-kind" [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] Also, I know Super System isn't a 2+2 book, but Doyle has a set defined as "three-of-a-kind OR four-of-a-kind" in his glossary.