Showing cards. What\'s your opinion?
 

Thought I'd start a thread on this, as was just reading this previous post.

What's everyone's view on showing hands? I always work on the assumption that people should pay to see my cards. Even more so when blind stealing. The success of blind stealing comes with picking the right moment. And if you get called when stealing then if you show a strong hand this is worth much more than showing your hand after successfully stealing.

I've only just started to introduce aggressive blind stealing into my game so would welcome feedback on this.

From my limited experience I notice that many more players show their cards after bluffing a blind steal than bluffing at the river. Is there any logic to this?

Cheers,
mart

Re: Showing cards. What\'s your opinion?
 

I occasionally will show strong hands when everyone folds to them. I never show weak hands that were a successful bluff.

In tournament play, your image is really important, and you want all the other players afraid of what you might be holding. Fold equity is just so important that any extra action with weak hands that might pay me off, I can do without. I just want their folds.

I would say that never showing is a good option as well, becasue showing strong hands might not accomplish that much. In my opinion, Showing weak hands in a tournament is always a mistake.

I also think that showing hands after the flop is also a bad idea. I'll show strong hands preflop because my usual opener is pretty much alwasy 3xBB anyways, and the only info I'm giving away is "I raise 3xBB with hands that you should be scared of". Showing after the flop lets observant players see how you played the whole hand and you never know what they might pick up.

On a similar note to the whole chatbox thing, I sometimes find that you can accomplish the same image with a little "I'm a tight player" chat.

Regards
Brad S

Re: Showing cards. What\'s your opinion?
 

I always show if I'm BB and it's been folded to me (I haven't taken any action so I figure it's harmless to show random cards).

If I've been on a good run (say won 3 or 4 hands in a row), I may show a strong hand -- depends on the table.

Finally, if it gets down to heads up, and opp is showing me everything, I may show an occasional hand because I think it encourages opp to keep feeding me information.

Otherwise -- I'd might show 4 of a kind or a straight flush just because they're so rare. However, sometimes I don't, because I think it gives a read on how I bet strong hands. But that's it, I don't like giving out information for free.

Re: Showing cards. What\'s your opinion?
 

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I always show if I'm BB and it's been folded to me (I haven't taken any action so I figure it's harmless to show random cards).


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Just what does this achieve though? Whenever someone does this in a game I'm in I just think "Wow, aren't you clever... you've got two cards!". it's not as if anything you did influenced or will influence my play from that show.
Or am I missing something???

Re: Showing cards. What\'s your opinion?
 

You're exactly right. That's why I feel I can show those cards. It gives away nothing about my playing style. A good player will ignore it. A bad player may look at the junk I had and decide to make a wrong bet on a later hand.

In any event, my feel is that showing cards when no one can get a read on me is at worst harmless.

I think it\'s a big mistake...
 

it gives info to opponents about your play. The less they know, the better.

Re: Showing cards. What\'s your opinion?
 

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In tournament play, your image is really important, and you want all the other players afraid of what you might be holding. Fold equity is just so important that any extra action with weak hands that might pay me off, I can do without. I just want their folds.

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I found this out the other day in my first SnG at Stars. In the first 40 hands I only entered the pot 5 times, 3 with Aces and twice with Jacks (stole the blinds with the Aces and showed and busted 2 people with the Jacks). It made it so much easier to steal the blinds later on (when they counted for so much more) and win the whole thing.

Re: Showing cards. What\'s your opinion?
 

How about a related question.

A third spade falls on the river, you bet big. Everyone else folds (It's an example, so assume whatever other facts you want to.)

Another player asks you -- "Did you have it?" or "Did you have the Ace?" or whatever. What do you do.

Usually (not always) I'll give an answer, which is invariably 'yes' (whether I had it or not). I figure that if someone wants to modify their play based on unverifiable information, it's all good. Plus, I figure that I get a 'free ask' of the same player later in the game if I want it.

Though I can't bank on it (they may be lying to me), my guess is that someone who is asking this information is more likely to be honest when they're asked.

Re: Showing cards. What\'s your opinion?
 

I show cards that puts me at an advantage, and don't show cards that put me at a disadvantage.

If I bluffed out with third pair, I don't show it. If I had three Aces when the last guy folds, I show it.

If I have what I'm representing with my bets, I don't mind showing it.

Of course... that doesn't happen very much... [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

KO

Re: Showing cards. What\'s your opinion?
 

[ QUOTE ]
How about a related question.

A third spade falls on the river, you bet big. Everyone else folds (It's an example, so assume whatever other facts you want to.)

Another player asks you -- "Did you have it?" or "Did you have the Ace?" or whatever. What do you do.

Usually (not always) I'll give an answer, which is invariably 'yes' (whether I had it or not). I figure that if someone wants to modify their play based on unverifiable information, it's all good. Plus, I figure that I get a 'free ask' of the same player later in the game if I want it.

Though I can't bank on it (they may be lying to me), my guess is that someone who is asking this information is more likely to be honest when they're asked.

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That's an interesting one.

I hardly ever (read that as NEVER) believe anything I read in the chat. After all, why should you believe another poker player unless you actually see their cards!?

It's normally the case that if someone asks 'What did you have?' or 'I take it you had the A?' then they are normally asking cuz they're so pissed they lost the pot that they really, really, really want assurance that they made the right play. So i don't give them what they want - either by saying the truth or lying. I find it better to annoy them even more just in case it pushes them on tilt...by saying something like.. 'i think I had it but i can't remember', or 'i may have done', or 'Give me some more chips and I may tell you'.

This may not be the 'friendliest' chat but it has worked on occasion to get that call that you really want when you have a monster!

This is the only time I will try to wind players up with chat though! Only because they initiated it!

Re: Showing cards. What\'s your opinion?
 

Here's something that has an interesting effect, from time to time. You win a good sized pot before a showdown, say when a player thinks, thinks, thinks, then folds to a big bet you made. He asks something like, "Did you have it?" Or maybe, "I assume you had the flush."

My response: "Good laydown."

This gets them every time -- you can see the aggravation in the chat box, one way or another. "BS" he responds, or maybe "Then why didn't you show?" Or possibly, "You're lying." I never respond further.

Regardless of what he thinks, the ultimate effect is distraction by the previous hand, wondering if he did make a good laydown, got bluffed, whether I was lying, etc.

Re: Showing cards. What\'s your opinion?
 

I agree with speakeasy. I often say "good fold."

I NEVER show my cards on a bluff. The only reason why you would do so is to induce a call later on. SNGs are too short for that sort of tactic. I think a tight table image goes a lot further. You will be in a rut 50% of the time you play, and you need all the folding equity you can get.

I am intrigued my AleoMagus comments. Do you really think that commenting in the chatbox, "I'm a tight player" really works?

Funny thing is that I read someone's comments the other day, in which the guy actually folded his (claimed) AK to some guys AJ reraise. His subsequent comments were I am a tight player. I then marked it in my notes. So maybe it does work.

Does anyone have anymore stories like this? I am always interested in ways to create a strong tight player table image. Perhaps this is a thread in itself.

Scuba

Re: Showing cards. What\'s your opinion?
 

I had AK the other day, and a K landed on the turn, and then a J on the river.

I bet out and the one caller left in called, then mucked his cards. He then said in the chatbox, 'JJ'.

I laughed. If he had JJ, he had his set and would have taken the pot. I said, 'No you didn't.' He thought a bit and then said, 'Okay, 10J.' I said, 'Whatever'.

I don't believe anything anyone says.

KO

Re: Showing cards. What\'s your opinion?
 

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Do you really think that commenting in the chatbox, "I'm a tight player" really works?


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Well, I doubt I'd ever just say it outright like "I am a tight player", but yeah, I think that comments to that effect do work.

The only thing to be careful about is that some players will also see this as an invitation to steal from you later in the game.

Regards
Brad S

Re: Showing cards. What\'s your opinion?
 

I usually reply that "that information requires a call" or something like that. Sometimes this stirs anger, but usually the other player accepts it.

Re: Showing cards. What\'s your opinion?
 

King, I believe your story 100%, and I concur 100% when it comes to folding hands. I don't believe what others say. In fact, I generally lie about a hand I folded - but let's be frank, idiots only lie about a monster hand fold.

But my point is, if you play only a few hands PF, and you write in the chatbox "I'm a tight player", will that go far?

How could someone write "I'm a tight player" and subsequently play 30+% of his PF hands? And then be believed?

Re: Showing cards. What\'s your opinion?
 

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I always show if I'm BB and it's been folded to me (I haven't taken any action so I figure it's harmless to show random cards).


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I'm a fan of this play, especially when it gets to level 5 or higher of a SNG. Once it gets to the point where blinds and/or antes are a significant amount, showing the table that they just gave away 225 or more chips to you when you had 6-2 means that you're far more likely to get action when you raise out of the blinds with a legit hand.

I think at the lower levels, the players have the mentality that they want to take those "free chips" back from you.

Once again, this play works best when you have A-A or K-K the next time you're in the BB, so be sure to follow that step. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Showing cards. What\'s your opinion?
 

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My response: "Good laydown."


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Excellent!! Short, succinct, and bound to annoy anyone to the point of tilt!

Re: Showing cards. What\'s your opinion?
 

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Once it gets to the point where blinds and/or antes are a significant amount, showing the table that they just gave away 225 or more chips to you when you had 6-2 means that you're far more likely to get action when you raise out of the blinds with a legit hand.


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Am I still missing something here?

Why will players respect your raise more from the blinds in the future just because you showed a poor hand when everyone folded to you in the BB?

You have used absolutely NO skill whatsover to earn the chips when everyone folds to you... so why on earth will anyone think that if you raise in the future that you must have a good hand?

I really can't get my head round this logic. Please help me out!

Re: Showing cards. What\'s your opinion?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm a fan of this play, especially when it gets to level 5 or higher of a SNG. Once it gets to the point where blinds and/or antes are a significant amount, showing the table that they just gave away 225 or more chips to you when you had 6-2 means that you're far more likely to get action when you raise out of the blinds with a legit hand.

I think at the lower levels, the players have the mentality that they want to take those "free chips" back from you.

Once again, this play works best when you have A-A or K-K the next time you're in the BB, so be sure to follow that step.

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Yes, but how often do you have AA or KK in the BB? Almost always, you are hoping that everybody folds to you.

To me, showing a pair of poor cards in the BB when everybody folds to you conveys this message: "I would have folded to any raise." This is a terrible message to send to the table.

Re: Showing cards. What\'s your opinion?
 

The only time I have ever shown my cards willingly was the other day after I had recieved the third pair of aces (as well as a pair of kings) inside about 10 minutes at the same table. I showed the aces because everyone knew I had already had the other 3 hands and I just thought it was crazy that I was catching all these hands. Also, I think it might help scare your opponents a bit in that situation, and I definitely want to see folds when I raise later on (as if that was different from everyone else on the board...). Otherwise though, if someone wants to see my cards, they had better call.