$35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

The U.S. has pledged $35M to help affected areas recover from the tsunami disaster. If my memory serves me correctly, Bush gave several $ billion to hurricaine relief in Florida. Anybody else bothered by this staggering difference?

Personally, I can't think of a single more worthy cause for U.S. dollars to be spent than international relief like this.

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

Florida is in America, its filled with Americans that pay taxes.

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

There is another reason why it is only 35 million.

That 35 million was all we had left in our fund for instances such as this. In order to get more money Congress must pass it. Therefore Bush can't pledge more than he has a garantee on. I expect more aid to come from the U.S.

I still don't like Bush though.

Melch

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

and 35 mil goes a lot farther around the indian ocean, and there are may other countries in the effort

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_b...ates_feed.html

The Tax Foundation has released a fascinating report showing which states benefit from federal tax and spending policies, and which states foot the bill.

US 50 States MapThe report shows that of the 32 states (and the District of Columbia) that are "winners" -- receiving more in federal spending than they pay in federal taxes -- 76% are Red States that voted for George Bush in 2000. Indeed, 17 of the 20 (85%) states receiving the most federal spending per dollar of federal taxes paid are Red States. Here are the Top 10 states that feed at the federal trough (with Red States highlighted in bold):

States Receiving Most in Federal Spending Per Dollar of Federal Taxes Paid:

1. D.C. ($6.17)
2. North Dakota ($2.03)
3. New Mexico ($1.89)
4. Mississippi ($1.84)
5. Alaska ($1.82)
6. West Virginia ($1.74)
7. Montana ($1.64)
8. Alabama ($1.61)
9. South Dakota ($1.59)
10. Arkansas ($1.53)

States Receiving Least in Federal Spending Per Dollar of Federal Taxes Paid:

1. New Jersey ($0.62)
2. Connecticut ($0.64)
3. New Hampshire ($0.68)
4. Nevada ($0.73)
5. Illinois ($0.77)
6. Minnesota ($0.77)
7. Colorado ($0.79)
8. Massachusetts ($0.79)
9. California ($0.81)
10. New York ($0.81)

Of the top 10 welfare states, 8 voted for George Bush in 2004.

Of the bottom 10 welfare states, 8 voted for Kerry in 2004.

It seems that Republicans in the South and Midwest do not mind being subsidized by us Northerners.

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

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Florida is in America, its filled with Americans that pay taxes.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't give a sh[/i]it whether or not those people pay taxes into the U.S. coffers. I feel the same brotherhood to those from Sri Lanka and Indonesia as I do those from Florida. Outside of my family and immediate friends, I don't have any stronger affiliation to any one human than another.

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

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That 35 million was all we had left in our fund for instances such as this. In order to get more money Congress must pass it.

[/ QUOTE ]
I sure as hell hope Bush lobbies hard for A LOT more money and aid to be given.

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

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35 mil goes a lot farther around the indian ocean

[/ QUOTE ]
That's true.

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

That's great that you feel such a connection with your fellow human beings. Can you feed that connection with your own money please, instead of U.S. taxpayer dollars?

I gave $100 myself today, not because I was forced to, but because I WANTED to.

Compulsion is a nasty tool.

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

I tend to spend my disposable income rather compulsively, rather than planning it out. One reason I'm not as bothered by this as I should be is because I give very compulsively as well.

If a large enough majority of Americans felt strongly enough that tax dollars shouldn't be spent in international aid, then it wouldn't be spent that way. Obviously enough people think it's a good idea to use tax dollars for this kind of aid, so it gets used.

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Florida is in America, its filled with Americans that pay taxes.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't give a sh[/i]it whether or not those people pay taxes into the U.S. coffers.

[/ QUOTE ]um, you should. I have no idea if you and GoT are paying taxes on your winnings, but I know I pay a lot of taxes, and it sure as hell better go to things here in America.

You go donate your own money, I am sure half of it will be well spent.

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

I really have no idea what your point is. I am sure there are plenty of explanations why certain states get more tax money than others, but whatever, thats a whole different topic entirely.

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

No, that's bs.

And we don't technically live in a democacy. A large percentage of Americans don't even pay federal income tax, so why should they get to decide where federal income tax dollars get spent?

Sure, they pay payroll taxes, but those are for Social Security and Medicare, where there is at least some expected benefit. People who pay federal income taxes pay those taxes as well.

Under a Democracy, government is directed by the desire of a majority of citizens, inevitably leading to its downfall when, as the British intellectual Alexander Tyler once said, "the majority of voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasury."

We are heading in that direction quite quickly. Although in this case, it's not voting themselves money, it's voting for money to be spent on some country that has never done anything for us.

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

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I have no idea if you and GoT are paying taxes on your winnings, but I know I pay a lot of taxes, and it sure as hell better go to things here in America.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, I pay taxes on my winnings (although I don't understand why what GoT does has anything to do with this discussion). And I think those tax dollars are better spent right now in the area effected by the earthquake than anything here in the states - including more freeways in the Seattle-Tacoma area, more guard at the borders, or public education in the U.S.

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

[ QUOTE ]
No, that's bs. And we don't technically live in a democacy.

[/ QUOTE ]
I didn't say we lived in a democracy. But recently the majority of Americans decided they didn't want to allow same sex marraiges, so even though I support it, I live with the fact that our society doesn't. I lobby for it when I talk to those I know, and if I ever see it on a ballot I'll vote for it, but I deal with what our society mandated.

Call it a Republic or call it a Democracy, but what the American majority believes makes a difference. Whether it's in the form of a poll that our politicians see, an initiative or referrendum, or even the act of election politicians based on their stance on issues, the majority in America speaks.

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

It is obviously wrong to spend tax dollars on foreign aid like this. This is a matter for charity, not forced taxation. I'll let others elaborate.

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

[ QUOTE ]
It is obviously wrong to spend tax dollars on foreign aid like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

This by far the stupidest thing I have read today.

yeh, what a great idea . . . the have countries should hoard what they have and let the have not's fend for themselves in times of crisis.

How very American of you.

[img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] busguy

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

How very Canadian of you. I take it you will be contributing all of your poker winnings to the victims of the tsunami, as well as any extra money you may have lying around.

They appreciate your support.


Hack.

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have no idea if you and GoT are paying taxes on your winnings, but I know I pay a lot of taxes, and it sure as hell better go to things here in America.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, I pay taxes on my winnings (although I don't understand why what GoT does has anything to do with this discussion). And I think those tax dollars are better spent right now in the area effected by the earthquake than anything here in the states - including more freeways in the Seattle-Tacoma area, more guard at the borders, or public education in the U.S.

[/ QUOTE ] GoT has been going on and on about it already, you two are roomates, so I included him, for the sake of thr discussion, forget that though.


I am glad you don't decided where our tax money goes.

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

[ QUOTE ]
It is obviously wrong to spend tax dollars on foreign aid like this. This is a matter for charity, not forced taxation. I'll let others elaborate.

[/ QUOTE ] I agree 100%. Anything the U.S. government gives(in fact anything any country gives is) is going above and beyond the call of their duty, IMO. There are thousands of charities that can and will do more.

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

[ QUOTE ]
It is obviously wrong to spend tax dollars on foreign aid like this. This is a matter for charity, not forced taxation. I'll let others elaborate.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. Compulsive charity is not smart government. Still, it goes on all the time. There isn't much we can do about it.
:shrug:

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

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And we don't technically live in a democacy. A large percentage of Americans don't even pay federal income tax, so why should they get to decide where federal income tax dollars get spent?

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah! and did you know some people don't even own land!? why do they get to vote! it's an outrage i tell you! the rich, now they know how to handle money! their opinions are much more valuable than those of the poor, those who don't earn enough money to have to pay income tax!


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We are heading in that direction quite quickly. Although in this case, it's not voting themselves money, it's voting for money to be spent on some country that has never done anything for us.

[/ QUOTE ]

35 mil for disaster victims isn't exactly going to break the bank, hack, you're being unrealistic. now the 200 bil we've spent on the war... but that's not exactly foreign aid. (probably going to be sorry i even brouught that up, huh?)

----------------------------------------------------------

I posted the rest of this as part of another post in the other tsunami aid thread- i don't know if you read this far into my post- do you really think that the only reason we give away foreign aid is to satisfy the bleeding hearts of liberals who only want to help those poor, poor people?

non-altrustic resons for giving foreign aid

First, the United States has a political interest in securing the collective goodwill of the international community. Giving aid to disaster victims, developing countries, victims of genocide, war, famine and tyranny goes a long way towards establishing that good will, at a relatively small cost. additionally private contributions through 'the society to end world hunger' (I made that charity up as a sample name only) simply don't generate such goodwill as effectively as planeloads of rice labeled "USA".

second, the united states has an economic interest in helping the less fortunate recover and develop. I refer you to the years following WWII, and the re industrialization of Japan and Germany, and those country’s subsequent recovery and participation in the world economy. Giving a little now to keep a nation from collapsing or suffering unduly can go a long way towards establishing a profitable economic relationship. we live in an increasingly globalized world, and what effects those nations struck by tragedies effects us as well.

Third, the united states has a national security interest in giving foreign aid. some examples would be our support of Pakistan and president Musharraf, aid considerations for Libya after they had promised to dismantle their WMD research and make reparations for past crimes, lots of aid to post-soviet Russia to prevent a slide back into totalitarianism, aid to finally stabilize the Balkans, etc, etc, etc.

bottom line, giving foreign aid is +EV

He already gave
 

[ QUOTE ]
How very Canadian of you. I take it you will be contributing all of your poker winnings to the victims of the tsunami, as well as any extra money you may have lying around.

They appreciate your support.

[/ QUOTE ]

We are talking about aid coming from tax money. Your income and the Caniadian's income have already been taxed! So it's not a matter of "charity" as you put it. Charity is up to every individual on its own - and there is no harm in NOT giving to charity. But after we all chip in to the tax man, we get to decide how the tax money is spent. (Or, as we do here now, to debate the actions of those we elected to spend!)

HDPM says that government-to-government aid should be discontinued, for any cause and for ever. He says only (private) charity should do such work.

I say this is either good irony from the part of HDPM or popyycock. I'll let you elaborate.

Great post
 

But why confuse people with facts? In the middle of the holiday season too...

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

[ QUOTE ]
The U.S. has pledged $35M to help affected areas recover from the tsunami disaster. If my memory serves me correctly, Bush gave several $ billion to hurricaine relief in Florida. Anybody else bothered by this staggering difference?

Personally, I can't think of a single more worthy cause for U.S. dollars to be spent than international relief like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course not. It's the latest headline. Next week there'll be a new "single most worthy cause".

natedogg

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

[ QUOTE ]
Of course not. It's the latest headline. Next week there'll be a new "single most worthy cause".

[/ QUOTE ]
Are you really that cynical about life and others' intentions?

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

Actually, most Americans fall in the altruist/socialist/communist trap like you Canadians and don't agree with me. However, I do think it is very American of me, even though many Americans no longer have American values. So I take you attempted insult as a compliment. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]


Hey, I heard a Canadian say three countries prohibited hiring a doctor privately. North Korea, Cuba, and Canada. Is this true?

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

If aid is given in our self interest only it may be OK. If it is for charity, as the original poster at least implies, it is wrong.

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

Lived in Canada for 3 yrs....

The country and people have such a different mentality its actually eye opening. It is fundamentally a Socialist nation...thats the way most Canadians want it and their government is merely an expression of their collective will. That being said 77% of the MD awarded at the medical school at the university I was attending (McGill Univ VERY good med school) were planning on practicing medicine abroad...3/4 of them in U.S..

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

If aid is given in our self interest only it may be OK. If it is for charity, as the original poster at least implies, it is wrong.

Is that the measure you personally use when giving any donations (if you do donate any money to anybody)?

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

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Anybody else bothered by this staggering difference?


[/ QUOTE ]

No.

If America doesn't look after it's own who will? And it we can't help our own, how will we be able to help others?

How many offers of help did we get from foreign countries after the hurricanes? And if your answer is that we don't need any help because we are rich, don't bother answering at all. If you have an Rich friend and they suffer suffer some kind of catastrophic event, you don't just not do anything and say to yourself "hey, they are rich they can get through it.". You still go over to them and offer your condolences and ask, "Is there any thing I can do?" We do this even though we know there is nothing we can do because it's human nature to want to help our friends.

Bubbagump

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

I hope one of these natural disasters wipes out all you communists so I can pick the charities I give to instead of having you pack of thieves take it from me.

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

Why should we help I mean I dont mean to be an ass but have you all been listening to the news are dollar is going down why is that, I dont know maybe beacuse we keep giving our money out to ther countrys then they screw us look at russia and germany for instance, or even France we save them thelp them and they stab us in the back..

I say screw other country's USA all day keep our money here so we keep our dollar.. Thats just my openion [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

Yes and no. Of course I give. I don't give with the expectation of a quid pro quo or direct return. When I give I give to people or things I value. So there is a self interest there, but not a direct one. I am not an altruist, at least as that term is properly defined and understood.(Some would say I am an altruist, but they don't agree with my definition of the term.) I give voluntarily and I don't take money by force from people to fund my giving. The government takes my money by force, and thus only has the moral right to use it for things that are proper government functions. Charity is not an approprite government function.

Why would you assume I don't give to charity BTW?

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

That is great 75% of those stusents will leave for freer countries.

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

You can hire a doctor in most parts of Canada, at least for certain things.

While Canada certainly suffers from too much of the "government owes me and I owe it" mentality, it is possible to go too much the other way.

Just a different case of warts, no better or worse.

As much as I'd like to see the only taxes being for those things that are necessary for all (police, defense, roads, etc. and user fees for everything else), too many people depend on handouts everywhere for that to ever happen: and their vote counts the same as people who feel as I do.

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

that's good to hear it isn't totally illegal.

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

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How many offers of help did we get from foreign countries after the hurricanes?

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent point.

I heard the French sent over some wine.

-Zeno

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My opinion of France just went up. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: $35M Aid to Disaster Relief
 

Ya, but he isnt talking about an individual he is talking about the govt of the US...Im puzzled how hard it seems for alot of you to tell the difference between the two.