Interesting HU 100-200 hand
 

chickenlittl: posts small blind $50
copi: posts big blind $100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to chickenlittl [Qs Qd]
gollfbum: folds
AmazingGrace: folds
ns6991: folds
youngluck: folds
chickenlittl: calls $50
copi: checks
*** FLOP *** [Th 4s 5h]
chickenlittl: checks
copi: checks
*** TURN *** [Th 4s 5h] [Jc]
chickenlittl: checks
copi: checks
*** RIVER *** [Th 4s 5h Jc] [9s]
chickenlittl: checks
copi: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
chickenlittl: shows [Qs Qd] (a pair of Queens)
copi: mucks hand
chickenlittl collected $197 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $200 | Rake $3
Board [Th 4s 5h Jc 9s]
Seat 1: chickenlittl (small blind) showed [Qs Qd] and won ($197) with a
pair of Queens
Seat 2: copi (big blind) mucked [8h 3d]
Seat 5: gollfbum folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: AmazingGrace folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: ns6991 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 10: youngluck (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

I wouldn't always play this hand this way, its a serious slowplay, i was trying to induce a bluff or maybe a river valuebet from a 9, i figured he didn't have a calling hand and he wouldn't have been able to call any bets throughout the hand. ALso copi is rather aggressive and would frequently raise preflop in that spot.

What do you all think?

Shawn "Lightning" Keller

Re: Interesting HU 100-200 hand
 

Maybe...just...maybe...you should bet at some point. Let's say...Preflop.

Just saying. But you're very good. And you offer your services at the low, low price of $500 / hour. So, I'm probably wrong.

Re: Interesting HU 100-200 hand
 

chickenlittl on stars? big fish i heard.

Re: Interesting HU 100-200 hand
 

if you say he's aggressive then you should probably bet this flop and let him overplay his hand or bluff or whatever. he either will or won't give you some action here.

Re: Interesting HU 100-200 hand
 

nice hand

Re: Interesting HU 100-200 hand
 

lol I'll win $1 off you for everypost you ever made on this website whats your handle on PS? You got 6k on there bro put that glimmer in play or don't be runnin your mouth.

Chickenlittl

Re: Interesting HU 100-200 hand
 

chickenlittl on stars? big fish i heard.

hey man, this guys gives lessons. you should watch what you say.

Re: Interesting HU 100-200 hand
 

i like this play, you lose some money though post flop if he is also slowplaying somethin like top pair. on the turn though and river mos tpeople will value bet almost any hand that they'd call your bet with, plus they will bluff some so the net gain by your play is you gain vs. bluffs. that's how i look at it when i do this in NL at least maybe the logic is a little different in limit. very hard to make this play when i see queens i want to bet. also on the river he maybe call a bet with say bottom pair or even ace high but check behind if you check to him.

Re: Interesting HU 100-200 hand
 

I give beatings and I taunt with the prospect of giving "higher education."

Re: Interesting HU 100-200 hand
 

If this is an "interesting" hand on $100/$200 then I dread to think what constitutes a "boring" hand. Is it really that hard to get bets out of the other players?

Re: Interesting HU 100-200 hand
 

What other hands would you limp with here preflop and how often?

Re: Interesting HU 100-200 hand
 

Shawn,

It's obvious that you've rubbed some of the regulars the wrong way with your instructional offer. Nevertheless, I have to say that all of your hand posts so far have been very enlightening to me. I hope you'll keep them coming.

To the others, if it's commonly understood that this guy is a winning 100/200 player (that's what we're hearing), then it's kinda just tough noogies that his offer comes across kind of arrogant, or he doesn't post in proper Bison format. I for one am on these forums to learn to get better, and a winning 100/200 player is a welcome contributor in my book.

Re: Interesting HU 100-200 hand
 

I'm guessing you figure him to raise any king any ace and any PP preflop so giving him unlimited freecards cant hurt you.

He wont call a bet with his trash so the only way to get extra money out of him is for him to catch a weaker pair, some kind of draw or as a bluff.

I wish I could make reads this good.

Re: Interesting HU 100-200 hand
 

I can catch the heavy sarcasm from about half of you, but others seem serious.

I mean... this IS a joke, right?

Re: Interesting HU 100-200 hand
 

yes

chicken i'll play you HU if you want but only up to 15/30. i don't have the bankroll for 100/200. i'm sure you understand, i mean would you want to flip coins with bill gates for $1M/flip?

Re: Interesting HU 100-200 hand
 

go get em!

daryn "rainstorm" umasser!

Re: Interesting HU 100-200 hand
 

I'd like this play better if it were aces or kings rather than queens. Were you intending to limp-reraise?

Re: Interesting HU 100-200 hand
 

I've watched this game a ton lately and the PF SB complete has meant strength more often than not. It is such a rare play in that game and it looks mighty suspicious. Do you think your opponent picked up on this? Had you been just calling with your marginal SB hands up to this point as well?

Re: Interesting HU 100-200 hand
 

I mix my play up very well, making very hard to discern from my headsup preflop actions (if I limp or raise) what the quality of my hand is in any given senario. My opponent checked because he had a very weak hand 83o, I think that was the most important factor to him in terms of his passive play.

QQ maybe I open raise 70% of the time in the small blind headsup against the big blind, If I limped and my opponent raised I would "probably" threebet but its not really essential against a lot of these opponents since some of them virtually always bet the flop if they raised preflop and u check to them. So if you don't sandbag preflop you have the option of checkraising the flop/turn.

Best of Luck!

Shawn "Lightning" Keller

Re: Interesting HU 100-200 hand
 

Nice! Looks like a HU challenge about to go down.

When's it gonna happen boys?

Re: Interesting HU 100-200 hand
 

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
Nice! Looks like a HU challenge about to go down.

When's it gonna happen boys?

[/ QUOTE ]


the master didn't accept yet [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

he will probably say it's not worth his time [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img], i mean this guy can make $2,000/hr teaching people how to play poker.

Re: Interesting HU 100-200 hand
 

There are a lot of scary things at poker but what really keeps me awake at night and fills me with dread every time I play is that my opponents will check their big hands to the river.

Re: Interesting HU 100-200 hand
 

He's also got his "clients" to lose. If you win the HU challenge it means all his prospective pupils are gonna think twice about who they go to for advice... [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

LOL you want to play we\'ll play
 

I'll play you or anyone else with something to prove headsup 80-160 or headsup 200-400.

No LOL I will not play you headsup 15-30 the 10-15 blind structure makes it so unpleasant in the first place, more importantly it is certainly not worth my time.

BTW for the people who have replied inquiring about personal instruction (yes there have been several inquires) I'll need at least 2-4 weeks notice before we set up a date also depending on the specifics, for example if you wanted 10 hours of instruction over 2 sessions and none of the action (I'd plan on most of the instruction after maybe the first hour, being me explaining online play while the student observes) I could cut the rate down to $400 an hour, $4000 total. I know its a lot of money to anyone, but my goal would be to increase your lifetime earn in the games I'm training you in by $10+ an hour.

Shawn "Lightning" Keller

Re: LOL you want to play we\'ll play
 

Hey, Your brother did the same thing aginst some drunk in the WSOP. And then he folded his pocket Qs and the other guy had 5/3 i bet your brother felt silly.

Re: LOL you want to play we\'ll play
 

You challenge Daryn, he accepts and now to your surprise he accepts. So its time for you to wuss out I guess, classy.

Re: LOL you want to play we\'ll play
 

I would strongly advise anyone considering instruction to give this individual a wide berth. If he is so supremely arrogant (and he certainly seems that way) that he thinks $5K is good value for 10 hours of instruction then either he is the greatest teacher this planet has produced, or you are getting short-changed. There is almost no way that you can learn enough in 10 hours to make it worth paying this kind of money for the limits most forum players play at (most being $10/$20 or less). It is not worth your time.

If, indeed, the level of his instruction is so high to make the 10 hours valuable, you would have to be very good to start with, and be looking at playing a game that makes this kind of fee acceptable. At $100/$200 that is 25BB for 10 hours, or about 2.5 BB/hr. Seems reasonable. And don't take any BS about "making you a lifetime income" I get that kind sh1t spammed to me every day. Forget fees like this until you are:

(i) Playing at a very high level, with a strong game.
(ii) Looking to play in some high stakes (world-class) games ($100/$200 or perhaps something like $30/$60 minimum) on a regular basis.
(iii) Are in a position to assess this players abilities.

I would also strongly recommend you ask for references from previous "pupils" including evidence of how much more they have earned. Also I think some kind of written guarantee of results would be appropriate.

If this person is a great player, a great teacher, with a professional approach to his "instruction" he should have no problem providing references, evidence and some written guarantee. If he cannot, don't even think about it. Any financial advice you seek should be treated this way, you need professional conduct and guarantees before parting with large sums of money. Don't let anyone, no matter how gobby they get, talk you into anything without this.

The language this individual uses, and his attitude, while it may be common among winning players, is not one I would expect to find in a professional teacher with an active interest in providing you with a first class service. If he can prove me wrong, then let him and good for him. I suspect we will see nothing of the kind.

As for Daryn's challenge - good for you Daryn. You said he would find an excuse, and you were right. Exactly what did this individual expect you to play for? The $200/$400 thing is a joke, and he knows it.

Chickenlittl has chickened out. I would have thought that such a "world-class" teacher could have seen a match like this as a great marketing exercise, after all there would be a lot of people watching that game and he could "talk" people through his superior plays. It is possible to find other world class players playing at very low limits (there have been a few posts, the recent Erik123 HU one being an example) so the notion that is it "not worth his time" is BS. Anyone with any understanding of marketing (or even just enough confidence) would see such a challenge as a fantastic opportunity to establish credentials among a very influential group of poker thinkers. There would be a lot of people interested in this match-up, against one of the Forum's most respected heads-up players, and it would probably be discussed and talked about for some time afterwards, giving "the lightning" plenty of opportunity to further enhance his credentials with professional insight into the plays made (regardless of the result).

Find your tuition elsewhere, he doesn't care for it anyway. Looks like he cannot take the heat.

Re: LOL you want to play we\'ll play
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would also strongly recommend you ask for references from previous "pupils" including evidence of how much more they have earned. Also I think some kind of written guarantee of results would be appropriate.


[/ QUOTE ]
References are reasonable, a guarantee is not. How can he be responsible for how you put his teaching to effect? What if you're a basket-case under pressure who couldn't win if Doyle himself gave you 100 hours of coaching?

[ QUOTE ]
Any financial advice you seek should be treated this way, you need professional conduct and guarantees before parting with large sums of money. Don't let anyone, no matter how gobby they get, talk you into anything without this.

[/ QUOTE ]

You will find few guarantees in the financial world, unless you want a low fixed rate return. Financial advisors and managers never offer guarantees that I'm aware of.

B.

Re: LOL you want to play we\'ll play
 

A good teacher will not take on head-case pupils, something to do with being able to produce a result and get references.

No guarantees in the financial markets. This is a joke right? It is one of the most heavily regulated industries in the world. The UK has just seen one of the big 4 high street banks fined £millions and forced to write to every one of its customers for giving misleading advice.

If his promise is to help people earn more money, then he either backs that up with some kind of guarantee or he stops making the claim. Can he even show what kind of improvements his clients have had? Ever heard of dissatisfied customers asking for refunds? $5K up-front with no protection smacks of scam to me, if you want to see it as "opportunity" you can, it's your money.

I made no mention of a guarantee of profits, just some kind of results-based guarantee, that can take a lot of different forms than the one you have decided it is ($$ based). Take a job as a broker and they have an interest in making you a succesful broker for their company, that is a form of guarantee (i.e. that will train your properly and mentor you, and it is in their interests to do so). Free advertsing on the forum, no-one knows who he is, $5K up front, no promises. Yeah that sounds a good deal....are you really that naive?

Re: Interesting HU 100-200 hand
 

lol [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: LOL you want to play we\'ll play
 

I don't understand why you're getting so upset and personally involved in this, Naphand. This guy is obviously an idiot, and anyone who would pay him thousands of dollars isn't too bright either. A fool and his money, as the eldest among us would say, and I don't see any need to keep bumping this thread to the top.

If you're really that concerned about others getting scammed, start a PM campaign to a mod to get him banned. But let's let it die here, ok?

Re: LOL you want to play we\'ll play
 

I am not upset, but I get the impression that there a quite a few forum users gullible enough to take this guy seriously, so I posted to draw attention to the shortcomings of what is on offer. Benjamins response should be evidence enough of how accepting people can be... [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

But yes, it can die now.

Re: LOL you want to play we\'ll play
 

i understand how it is. i probably wouldn't play someone who challenged me at .50/1 stakes, and this guy is clearly a high roller.

for another interesting hand, check out my recent post in this forum.

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]-daryn

Re: LOL you want to play we\'ll play
 

why would anyone pay you $400 an hour to do something you're going to do anyway?

and what is it that makes you worth $100 per hour more than 5 days ago ?

to all you haters...
 

Someday I hope you haters (who may not have $2000 to your name) will realize that how good a deal my offer to the RIGHT PERSON IN THE RIGHT SITUATION. This would mean someone who wanted to be a PROFESSIONAL texas holdem player, at at least the 15-30 limits. Also clearly the person should have some experience playing limit THE at least at the 3-6 level before they would want me to train them. Also they should have read Feeney's "inside the poker mind" and THFAP.

one more thing to keep in mind is that $2000 is a good session at the 15-30 levels, its a medium large size pot at the $100-$200 , and at $400-$800 well its 2.5 big bets. The impact that a 10 hour work session with me could have on one of my students could be tremendous 100+ times the $4000 cost if it helps them significantly towards becoming a long time professional.

Best of luck!

Shawn "Lightning" Keller

Re: to all you haters...
 

Only a mug is going to pay huge amounts of money to get coaching from a nobody.

If I want coaching I'd pay a known professional half what you charge.

Nothing personal but you are just another kid with a big ego.

Re: LOL you want to play we\'ll play
 

I'm sorry but it sounds like you're scared to lose. Let's say you wanted to play daryn in a $3000 freezeout (100BB). I'd estimate you could probably finish him off in about 5 hours. That's $600/hour. That would be more than the $400/hour or whatever you're charging for private lessons.

Oh, and you're refusal to play because the "stakes aren't high enough" sounds a lot like this letter. And daryn's response sounds a lot like Doyle Brunson's response. But that's just me.

Re: to all you haters...
 

Not everybody is a "hater", some have concerns. You may be a world class player, I don't know, some question this and others support the notion. I reserve opinion on it. However, in order to be able to make such an offer you must not only be a great player but a good teacher, and for the fees you charge a highly professional service would be expected, along with some kind of support/guarantee. Of course "guarantee" is a big word and can mean many things, it does not have to mean a financial bond. You are also almost completely unknown on these boards. Many perhaps resent the idea that you appear to be making your posts not to discuss or stimulate, but merely to promote your services. This is a fraudulent use of the forum, and rightly deserves condemnation, if true.

We all know you do not have to be very good at prose to write book on poker, at least with the market as it stands now, you don't even have to be very good at poker. While it may not be necessary to behave professionally, with dignity and respect for others, challenges couched in such phrases as "You got 6k on there bro put that glimmer in play or don't be runnin your mouth." do not exactly inspire confidence in your teaching ability/professionalism. It sounds like you have something to prove.

You must have known when you challenged Daryn that he would not accept at the limits you currently play at, so your subsequent refusal makes you look fake. I would have thought playing a HU game against one of the Forums stronger HU players would be an excellent marketing opportunity, at the very least a chance to establish your credentials. You even talk in your recent post to those playing the $15/$30 game, and you must be aware that jumping up to high limits on a reduced bankroll is stupid. There is no way Daryn does this and you know it; your challenge looks disingenuous. Set a match and play a certain number of hands, enough so that you get to discuss hands on the Forum, to showcase yourself and you gain far more credibility than jumping into the forum and posting hands as an unknown, you could easily be a fake.

I am not saying you are a fake, I don't know, but where large sums of money are involved, professionalism and qualifications count. Maybe people still think the poker world is just a wild west shootout, and financial standards do not apply. This is wrong thinking IMO; set high standards and earn respect. Just because you play at $100/$200 does not entitle you to claim to be able to turn $3/$6 players into lifetime pros. Treat this forum with respect.

Re: to all you haters...
 

I think this is one of the best posts I've ever read.

-Michael

Re: to all you haters...
 

I second that.

oh...and keller still sucks.