Hosting 40 man tourney....
 

Last year we had a 27 man tournament. Starting chips 1000. Blinds half hour long. Tourney took 7 hours. No one minded that, it took a long time and ate up everyones night, gave thme a good time. However, I have run into a problem.

This year we expect about 40 people. Some of the guys are wanting to have unlimited rebuys. So we are thinking of doing unlimited rebuys for first hour or hour and a half. The starting chips will be 1000, and you can rebuy 1000 chips if you go bust and only if you go bust.

Blinds tentatively are:
5-10
10-20
15-30
20-40
25-50
50-100
75-150
100-200
150-300
200-400
300-600
400-800
500-1000
600-1200
and so on....

Does anyone think that with unlimited rebuys this tourney could possibly take....forever? Blinds we are thinking of upping every 25 minutes instead of 30. I dont mind if the tournament takes 7 hours, but if it goes way beyond that, then it becomes a big problem. Any advice for the blinds or something I can do to make sure it doesn't last into the early morning?

If you need anymore info let me know and I'll try to post it.

Re: Hosting 40 man tourney....
 

i don't know the exact correlation, but adding 50% more players than the last tourney seems to insure this one will run somewhat significantly longer than last years (barring a totally different texture at the tables) even without the rebuys. if time is that big of an issue i think you have to cut the rebuys out, since i'm not a fan of bumping the blinds too quickly.

Re: Hosting 40 man tourney....
 

Well we are going from 27 to roughly 40 yes. I figure 7 hours is reasonable for 40 people, but I guess I didn't really think the extra 15 players or so would change the time that much. Mostly because I figured when people hit the wall, it should be around the same time based on the quicker blind levels (25) and the slightly faster rising levels (in comparison to previous levels)

Any other help here would be appreciated. Thanks.

Re: Hosting 40 man tourney....
 

You could escalate the blinds more rapidly (particular at the end stage) if you're worried that the tournament will take too long. (eg. 400-800 to 600-1200 straight away).

Alternatively, you can limit the amount of rebuys, to say, 5.

Re: Hosting 40 man tourney....
 

when we made the jump fro 30 seats to 50 seats, it added maybe 30 minute playing time, at the most. The extra players probably would have added yet another 30 to 45 minutes playing time, if I hadn't inadvertantly "underchipped" everyone relative to the first big blind. In addition, a little more nonplaying time was spent coloring up.

We also made a switch from 1 addon & 1 rebuy, to a freezeout format for the 50 man tourney. This probably had the biggest effect on getting done in just under 5 hours of play. (we have 20 minutes/level) (blinds double every OTHER level, or every 40 minutes)

What you haev described will take at LEAST seven hours - and then potentially quite a bit more (depending on the number of rebuys)

I have found, as we have grown from 8 seats to 50, is that the dictum from
www.homepokertourney.com
about the tournament being "about to be over" when the big blind=starting stack to be fairly accurate.

expect 8-9 hours depending on your breaks, and effience at coloring up, and the number of rebuys. My .02 is ONE rebuy only.
doc

Re: Hosting 40 man tourney....
 

Forget rebuys, just offer an optional add-on at a certain point in the tourney (at the one or two-hour mark). I run just a 16-player game, but I play in it as well. Unless you have a dedicated non-player to handle the rebuys, it becomes a real mess because YOU get interrupted mid-hand to provide rebuy chips for people while you're trying to play.

If you make it an optional add-on during a break period, it takes a lot of pressure off.

And moving the levels from 30 minutes each to either 25 or 20 should help a bit as well. Good luck!

Re: Hosting 40 man tourney....
 

One way to minimize the problem of giving someone a rebuy during play is to give them $500 chips (or a single $1000?) and make them get change from someone at thier table. Quick and easy.

Re: Hosting 40 man tourney....
 

Hey Solo,
If you want to do unlimited re-buys, I would recommend a time limit on the rebuy period. If you don't have a time period many people would keep rebuying until the blinds are a big portion of the starting chip count. Actually, this may build the prize pool up, though. In the tourney's I host, one rebuy in the first 2 hours is allowed. I used to have a rebuy only if you go bust, but I found there was an all-in fest before the time period is up so it was changed it to if you bust or have 30% or less of the starting chips.

To keep the tourny time in check with all the extra rebuys you may want to change the time increment for blind increase or add an ante structure for later in the game. I usually start the blinds increasing every 30 minutes for the first 2 hours, then to 20 minute increments for the next 2 hours, then 15 minute increments for the rest of the night.
Have fun.
G$

Re: Hosting 40 man tourney....
 

Here's what works for us.

We only allow the first hour for rebuys, but we revamped the blind structure to provide more action to bust people out and promote rebuys.

Basically instead of starting at T5/T10 we jumped to T25/T50 and left it there for the first hour

We also have an add-on at the end of the hour.

Our blinds escalate ever 15 minutes, and look pretty similar to yours.

Tourney Time 4 hours.

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Re: Hosting 40 man tourney....
 

Seems like you have to take in account that you've increased the chips in play from 27k + rebuys to 40k + rebuys... a 50% or more increase esp. due to more people that could rebuy.

Might consider droping the 500-1000 and begin increasing in 200 increments instead of 100, shorten to 20-25min levels after the first 3-4 levels and also add on antes to control the time.

From what I've read with that many players I would think when the tourney would end when the blinds begin approaching 1/10 to 1/20 the total chips in play.

FYI - If you do 1st 4 levels at 30min & then 25min after and cut out 500-1000 switching to 200 increases then not counting breaks you're at 2000-4000 in just under 8 hours so you might consider antes to help ensure you don't go longer.

Some good posts already just thought I'd throw in my unexperienced view and how I'd set it up... haven't played a tourney with that many folks but it'd be fun and hopefully rewarding!

I'd be interested in what you decide and how it turns out so please post a follow up after the tourney.

Thanks,
Fins

Re: Hosting 40 man tourney....
 

Just a few follow ups from the replies so far (which have been awesome by the way...)

We did plan to cap the rebuys at the 1 hour mark...
Last year was 27 players and no rebuys and it took 7 hours. The reason it took so long though I think is because whoever ran the one last year didn't make sure the blinds kept escalating. I think that once the final 5 or 6 were left, they all agreed to just not increase blinds anymore. Which I believe forced less action (obviously)....

So basically the thought was 40 players, and having rebuys up through the first hour if you bust out. I did think of the 'all in fest' syndrome happening....but I figured thats just building the pot more for the eventually money winners.

The idea of increasing the blinds 30 minutes for the first two levels then faster after that isnt a bad idea. Also the idea of upping the blinds quicker, later in the tourney is something I think would be a great idea.....

I also thought of just dropping that first 5-10 blind level and starting at 10-20. I know that would take out the usual starting level, but I figure this tourney cant go any longer than about 8 hours otherwise I might not be asked to figure out how to run it again (and as helpless as I must sound right now, I trust myself more than anyone else to set this thing up right.....)

Anyways, as of now I'm thinking one rebuy for first three levels at 25 minute levels....and i figure with that formula we shouldn't get more than 8 rebuys or so...and then I'll have the blinds move quicker in the later part of the tourney (20 minutes) and drop the 500-1000 level. Any opinions given all of this updated information???

Replies so far have been awesome, thanks a ton guys.

Re: to SolaAJ
 

Again, I recommend going with add-ons during a break instead of rebuys. Add-ons virtually ensure you'll get that extra money in the pot, and it keeps the maniac "all-in all-the-time" players from going nuts on you during the first hour because of the rebuys and running you ragged with terrible cards and ridiculous agression.

Besides, don't you hate knocking some schmuck out THREE friggin times and then they rebuy, rebuy, rebuy and come back to beat you? With an add-on, if they play like a doofus and get eliminated before the add-on period, they can't add-on and you've just moved up one spot in the money.

Plus, it's much easier to provide people with add-on chips during a break then to be interrupted mid-hand to handle a rebuy player.

Re: Hosting 40 man tourney....
 

i hope you have enough chips to do unlimited rebuys. you could make the first 3 rounds say 20 min each and then up the next 3 to 30 and the next 3 to 40. also try and include antes at level 4 and above.

Re: Hosting 40 man tourney....
 

I think you have too small denominations & blinds. I do 30 man tournament every so often often and it usually runs about 5 hrs. 1500 in chips to start. 8@25 8@100 1@500 Blinds are:
25/25 first :30 then :20 all the rest
25/50
50/100
75/150
100/200
150/300
200/400
250/500
300/600
400/800
500/1000
600/1200
700/1400
800/1600
900/1800
1000/2000
Usually doesnt get this high. A few things to make it simpler. If your chips don't have numbers on them when you reach 100/200 level take half of everybody's 25's and make whats left 50's. If they have an odd one, let them keep it. Saves time and hassle of race-off. If they are marked, race the the 25's for 100's after the 250/500 level. Having an extra color to bring in later as 1000's helps a lot too. Big stacks of small denomination chips really slow the play. Also starting the tournament on a half hour, like 6:30 helps. First level ends on the hour, the rest are 20 mins. If you make breaks 20 mins too, it will be easy for players to watch clock and see where they are before blinds go up. Use a timer too though.
I've never done rebuys or addons, not sure how they will effect things. I would have a different set of chips and encourage side games for those who drop out. We usually have a $25 cash game with .$25/$.50 blinds for those out. That way as people go out, they can join mid-game.

peace.
unloaded

Re: to SolaAJ
 

If you rec. addons instead of rebuys, would you recomend same buyin-same starting chips....or doing it for half the buyin half the starting chips? We have enough chips to cover reubys and addons, but I do think the addon idea is sounding better and better.
In terms of the low denomination of chips, I'm not sure how much different your style is than ours, you start higher blinds, but you also start with more chips.
Needless to say, I'm still very much undecided but the help thusfar has been well noted and is making for a lot of choices.

Re: to SolaAJ
 

I use the Foxwoods blind structure and it has worked well with a 40 person tourney. Remember this, if you have an unlimited rebuy w/addon, the tourney will last to the level where the BB ~ 5-10% of the Total Outstanding chips. This is the rule of thumb found at HomePokerTourney and has been the norm for my tourney's. So... if you can anticipate the how many rebuy/addons then you will know how long it will take.

BTW, I do agree with another poster that the denominations are to small. You will go nuts with all the outstanding chips/colors. I start with T2000 (4-25's, 9-100's, 2-500's) have on chip race and use antes. Good luck and here are the resources:

http://www.geocities.com/thepokerfanatic/

http://www.geocities.com/thepokerfanatic/homerules.html

Re: Hosting 40 man tourney....
 

we did a 40 man tourney recently, and it went at a reasonable pace with a 14 minute blind structure. we had u/l rebuys for the first hr and one add on at the end of the hr.

our tourney took 4 hrs...

I think your structure is too slow... with unlimited rebuys, you kinda want more action in the pot... with 5 dollar increments it's going to take a long time to get any real action going.

the u/l rebuys are going to have chips flying, so an accelerated structure will compensate for that.

imma find the stucture we used and post it tomorrow or so.. i think you'll be happy with it.

Re: Hosting 40 man tourney....
 

the above post of his blind structure was actually super close to what we used.. it worked neat-o

Re: to SolaAJ
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you rec. addons instead of rebuys, would you recomend same buyin-same starting chips....or doing it for half the buyin half the starting chips? We have enough chips to cover reubys and addons, but I do think the addon idea is sounding better and better.
In terms of the low denomination of chips, I'm not sure how much different your style is than ours, you start higher blinds, but you also start with more chips.
Needless to say, I'm still very much undecided but the help thusfar has been well noted and is making for a lot of choices.

[/ QUOTE ]

In my events I make the add-on a bargain, so people are more inclined to take this "optional" feature. We start them with 2000 chips for 20 bucks, and then after an hour has passed they can get another 2000 chips for $10 more.

Re: to SolaAJ
 

[ QUOTE ]

In terms of the low denomination of chips, I'm not sure how much different your style is than ours, you start higher blinds, but you also start with more chips.

[/ QUOTE ]
My 25 blind is 1/60 of starting stack, your 5 blind is 1/200 of your starting stack. That is a bigger difference than you think.
I was at a 120 person tournament a few weeks ago. We started with 68 in chips 8@1 8@5 2@10. Blinds started at 1/2 and doubled every 30 mins. I didn't think I'd like that setup, but it went smoothly and it was over in about 5 1/2 hrs.
I only mention this to show you that the assigned value of chips isn't whats important, it's the size of the blinds relative to the starting stacks that make the difference.

If you are having any smaller 8-10 person games before the tournament, try some of the whats been posted here and see how you like them. You could even do freebie games just to see.

peace.
unloaded

Re: to SolaAJ
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

In terms of the low denomination of chips, I'm not sure how much different your style is than ours, you start higher blinds, but you also start with more chips.

[/ QUOTE ]
My 25 blind is 1/60 of starting stack, your 5 blind is 1/200 of your starting stack. That is a bigger difference than you think.
I was at a 120 person tournament a few weeks ago. We started with 68 in chips 8@1 8@5 2@10. Blinds started at 1/2 and doubled every 30 mins. I didn't think I'd like that setup, but it went smoothly and it was over in about 5 1/2 hrs.
I only mention this to show you that the assigned value of chips isn't whats important, it's the size of the blinds relative to the starting stacks that make the difference.

If you are having any smaller 8-10 person games before the tournament, try some of the whats been posted here and see how you like them. You could even do freebie games just to see.

peace.
unloaded

[/ QUOTE ]
I think the comparison of big blinds is better 1:60 vs 1:100 so the diff isn't as extreme though significant.

Unloaded,
Your schedule seems to push action a little quick as with your structure (which seems like a popular one e.g. like Foxwoods) in 30 min you're down to 30 BB's and in under an hour your at 15 BB's. Seems like you'd loose alot of folks early as they'd be more short stacked & forced to play... great if you double up early but sux if you don't?? I like the idea of a more relax start up to give everyone more playing time i.e. makes their buy-in entertainment value a little better (That's my positive EV [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]).

What's your experience been as far as players dropping out... e.g. how many players usually at the 1st color up & the 2nd? Any comments on time/blind pressure with your structure?

Thanks,
Fins

Re: to SolaAJ
 

Heres the structure we used... pretty fair for an u/l rebuy for first hr and 1 addon at the end of the hr.

Blinds Go Up Every 20 Minutes
Level, SB/BB/Ante
1 , 25/25/-
2 , 25/50/-
3 , 50/100/-
Re-buy Period Ends – 10 Minute Break
4 , 75/150/-
5 , 100/200/-
6 , 150/300/25
7 , 200/400/50
8 , 300/600/75
Color Up Green Chips – 10 Minute Break
9 , 400/800/100
10 , 500/1000/200
11 , 700/1500/300
12 , 1000/2000/400
Color Up Black Chips – 5 Minute Break
13 , 1500/3000/500
14 , 2000/4000/500
15 , 3000/6000/1000
16 , 4000/8000/2000