Suspected cheating (not an \"online poker is rigged\" post)
 

I play in a regular home game with a group of friends from class. There's this one player that we all suspect of cheating, but nobody can prove it with hard evidence. The amount of freaky hands he has are ridiculous. EX-1. Friendly home game, i forget what was going on, but he was the dealer and we were all distracted by something, might have been the tv. Nobody was watching him shuffle the deck because of this. He called Omaha for his game (dealer's choice) so to make a long story short, my full house gets cracked by his AAKK double suited full house. Wierd, but w/e.
EX-2 This happened today. His deal again in the friendly home game, we're all just talking and stuff while we play, nobody really watching intently for cheating or anything. Same guy calls Omaha again for his game( no big deal, that's his favorite game). I get dealt KKxx and the flop comes down KxA, I was already suspicious from the beggining. The turn brought another A and he bet out. I said that there was something shady about this hand and mucked my Kings over Aces face up, and wouldn't you know it, the suspect turns over AA for quad aces. Now these are just a few hands, but this kind of stuff happens regularly. I've never seen someone have so many pocket pairs that hit in my life, but only on his deal.
Some people who aren't even in my home game have given me the idea that he's cheating. One guy I was talking to about our game told me about how the guy we suspect of cheating showed him some card trick where he brings a certain card to the top of the deck "magically". Another guy overheard a couple friends and I talk about our game and said "Oh man you guys play poker with xxxx, you're crazy he's a cheater. He showed me how once." When we confronted the suspected cheater about this he gave us some story about how it was when he was permenant dealer and wasn't even in the game and he was just fooling around looking at the cards before they came and signaling a player. We tell him to stop cheating every time, but mostly in a joking manner. We don't want to really be harsh because he's a friend of ours, but it's really starting to make me mad. I'm wondering what the best course of action would be. Every time we confront him about it, he adamently denys cheating.

Re: Suspected cheating (not an \"online poker is rigged\" post)
 

No longer accuse him of cheating. Require that the player to the left of the dealer cut the cards before EVERY deal. This will stop his attempts. Do not direct it at him when you oppose this new rule, and make sure you enforce it for ALL players.

Freakin

Re: Suspected cheating (not an \"online poker is rigged\" post)
 

Your first problem is letting him play in your game. Dont let him play if he cheats. Even if you confronted him about it, he sounds like the kind of guy that will find an even sneaker way to cheat in the game even though he knows you know.
Once a cheater always a cheater

Re: Suspected cheating (not an \"online poker is rigged\" post)
 

[ QUOTE ]
No longer accuse him of cheating. Require that the player to the left of the dealer cut the cards before EVERY deal. This will stop his attempts. Do not direct it at him when you oppose this new rule, and make sure you enforce it for ALL players.


[/ QUOTE ]

To the left of the dealer? I've always thought that standard practice in home games was to have the player to the right of the dealer cut the cards. It's important we figure this out for the integrity of the game.

Justin A

Here is how you do it...
 

From reading your post you want to things:
1. Keep his friendship
2. Make him stop cheating so you can enjoy your poker game.

Get with your other buddies who are like minded and agree to a plan. I call the plan good cop/bad cop.

1. GOOD COP.
Approach this guy and tell him that friend#1 and friend#2 **SUSPECT** he **MAY** be cheating and said that the next time he deals where a bad beat happens and **HE** benefits that they want to ban him FOREVER from the game.

2. GOOD COP
You tell him you talked them out of that because cards can fall in funny ways and he just had a run of good luck. ***BUT*** warn him if another bad beat happens where he is the beneficiary they are at the point where they will start pointing fingers at him and ***YOU*** don't want to see that happen.

3. Good Cop
What ever he says agree and sympathize with him but tell him to watch his step with #1 and #2 because they said it is IMPOSSIBLE for someone to be that lucky.

4. Bad Cop
If this friend approaches friend #1 and friend #2, they need to be bad cop in a nice way. Basically they need to use the "*broken record technique" and WHATEVER HE SAYS there response needs to be, "_____, you have to admit the odds of you cracking a King full boat when deal is a VERY low probability". WHATEVER HE SAYS keep repeating this phrase. Don't let him take them off topic where things can escalate....

OK, hopefully at this point he will retain his pride and TAKE the hint. If he does not, then you have to decide how much having him in this poker game means to you.

I had a friend in high school that cheated at cards for SMALL stakes and none of us called him on it even though we knew. A few years later he spontaineously confessed to us and he was quire embarassed. We are still friends and he is completely honest at cards now.

*The broken record technique is from a book called, "When I say No, I feel quilty". BUY IT, it is worth its weight in GOLD!

Re: Suspected cheating (not an \"online poker is rigged\" post)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No longer accuse him of cheating. Require that the player to the left of the dealer cut the cards before EVERY deal. This will stop his attempts. Do not direct it at him when you oppose this new rule, and make sure you enforce it for ALL players.


[/ QUOTE ]

To the left of the dealer? I've always thought that standard practice in home games was to have the player to the right of the dealer cut the cards. It's important we figure this out for the integrity of the game.

Justin A

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I've been braindead for 2 weeks cause of school. Yes, to the right of the dealer.

Typically in my home game, we have the person to the right of the current dealer shuffle (while the previous hand is ending) then the person to the left of the current dealer cuts. In general, keep the person actually dealing the cards as little involved as possible with the finished deck before he deals them out.

Freakin

Re: Suspected cheating (not an \"online poker is rigged\" post)
 

My advice.... Next time you guys play, act like your not paying attention when he deals. If he thinks noone is paying attention he will prolly get careless. Watch him like a hawk when he thinks you arent. When you see him cheat with your own eyes (which is all the proof you need)....

1) Step out of your chair
2) Deposit your fist into his mouth
3) Toss him and tell him if you see him again you wont be so nice

A friend doesnt cheat his other friends at cards.

Re: Suspected cheating (not an \"online poker is rigged\" post)
 

[ QUOTE ]
My advice.... Next time you guys play, act like your not paying attention when he deals. If he thinks noone is paying attention he will prolly get careless. Watch him like a hawk when he thinks you arent. When you see him cheat with your own eyes (which is all the proof you need)....

1) Step out of your chair
2) Deposit your fist into his mouth
3) Toss him and tell him if you see him again you wont be so nice

A friend doesnt cheat his other friends at cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this method best.

Re: Suspected cheating (not an \"online poker is rigged\" post)
 

Jeez what kind of friend cheats friends?? anyone who cheats me is no friend of mine. People die for less.
Im sorry if my response seems harsh but from where i come from thats called stealing. Friend or not he dosent get to play cards with us anymore and might get his a$$ kicked or maybe a couple broken fingers. then im taking him to the ATM and getting all our money back. But thats just me. if you guys welcome that at your tables then the jokes on you. SUCKER!
He's laughing at you guys [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

JMO







If you must have him play with you....Friends or not,
DO NOT ALLOW HIM TO DEAL. he can;t stack the deck if he dosent get to deal.
ALWAYS CUT THE CARDS!!!!!!!! to the right of the dealer...never the left. person getting first card never gets to cuts the cards.

Re: Suspected cheating (not an \"online poker is rigged\" post)
 

It's quite simple really, stop playing with him. I have a friend who plays with this group of guys who are just shady angle shooters, and when possible, outright cheaters. He asks me to come over and play little single table tourneys with them all the time... I just politely decline. I can't convince him to stop playing with them, but there are plenty of games (online) that I can get into if I want to play.

cjx

Re: Suspected cheating (not an \"online poker is rigged\" post)
 

Shoot Him.

Orange

Re: Suspected cheating (not an \"online poker is rigged\" post)
 

I agree with the more recent posters. I've never had any respect or sympathy for cheaters in anything. And to cheat people who are supposed to be friends over what I assume is a small amount of money, is very low.
I'm sure your "friend" has serious self-esteem issues, but I wouldn't care enough to refrain from kicking his ass. Or at least throwing him out of the game. One cheater ruins the game for everyone.

Re: Suspected cheating (not an \"online poker is rigged\" post)
 

Try video... then you'll have something he can't refute.

KO

Re: Suspected cheating (not an \"online poker is rigged\" post)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Shoot Him.

Orange

[/ QUOTE ]

classic! violence rulzzz!!! lol.

when i was in highschool, a friend of mine and i went in on some marked cards. we systematically cheated 2 other friends of ours for months. i don't even think we played for money, but it sure was fun. after the thrill wore off, we told them we were cheating with marked cards. they weren't exactly thrilled, but they never fired the first shot. they paid us back by making secret deals in our monopoly battles.

cheers!

Re: Suspected cheating (not an \"online poker is rigged\" post)
 

Cutting the cards...can't you just say that you will use the "3 stack" cutting method when he is dealing? I don't recall the name for it, but it is where you take the top 1/3 off, then the middle 1/3, then place the last bottom 1/3 on the top and the middle on the top of the bottom (correct me if I even have this wrong).

It was my understanding that this was used to trip-up the desk stackers back in the days durring the wars etc....

I think that this would end any desk stacking cold.

Re: Suspected cheating (not an \"online poker is rigged\" post)
 

look. he knows card tricks and uses slight of hand. he can probably do it even if you cut the cards if he's any good. just don't let him deal, ever, simple as that.

Re: CORRECTION TO CUTTING METHOD
 

I had to grab a deck of cards, but here is what I mean....

This is your deck in 3rds viewed from the edge of the table:
1
2
3
----------
you want to do this with cutting:
1
3 2
----------

3 2 1
----------

2
3 1
----------

3
2
1
----------

So, you have taken the top 1/3 and put it on the bottom, and taken the bottom 1/3 and put it on top. This changes both the top and bottom cards, so that the deck cannot be stacked or set for bottom dealing....

As I noted, there is a name for this, but I cannot recall the name....

Re: Suspected cheating (not an \"online poker is rigged\" post)
 

Probably true...but if you cut and COMPLETE the cut in this manner, unless he is holding out cards or actually marking / shaving the cards, he cannot know where the cards are to do any magic etc....

This would just be the 1st step I would take before pulling his shuffling rights, or kicking him out completely.

If this were for higher stakes, his butt would not even be let in the door, not just not let to deal.

Re: Suspected cheating (not an \"online poker is rigged\" post)
 

That's the Scarne cut.

But on to the matter at hand, I used to play like 50 cent games with a guy who would invariably call bizarre games(this weird little 3 card game where highest and lowest cards were wild) and try little bullshit like holding back aces. We caught him a couple of times, but never did anything. My response was to step it up and stack the deck against him, which amused me for a while, but really. I didn't care about the money so I just folded when he called that game.

If he's cheating you out of quarters, cope. It's not like you're playing for winrate. If you guys are playing for somewhat real amounts of money, you should catch him then beat the [censored] out of him. No middle ground.

Re: Suspected cheating (not an \"online poker is rigged\" post)
 

Kick his ass... out of your game. Tell him why.

Re: Suspected cheating (not an \"online poker is rigged\" post)
 

he's most likely base dealing and the easiest way to tell is if he's holding the cards very loosely and unorganized in his hand. That together with arms moving slightly more than a regular person would while they are dealing cards. It also makes a slightly different noise when they are bottom dealing. Given the hands you are talking about if any of my above statements rings true then he's cheating. don't let him play in the game.