ACLU to sue to force Gay indoctrination at schools
 

Support of gays pushed in schools

The ACLU has threatened to file for a court order to enforce attendance.

Warning: A Washington Times article is invoked
 

This thread will need a strong disinfectant soon.

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Re: ACLU to sue to force Gay indoctrination at schools
 

I agree with alot of the things the ACLU does but, they are wrong in this spot. It is not the job of our government to teach us morality. I personally wouldn't mind schools having a chapter about gay sex in sex education classes, but a "tolerance training video" is designed specifically to teach our children how to think. We cannot allow the government to teach children moral values(even if we agree with them). The risk is just too great. All it takes is to put one psychopath in power.

"He alone, who owns the youth, gains the Future!"-- Adolf Hitler Hitler Youth

silly

Re: ACLU to sue to force Gay indoctrination at schools
 

Excellent post,

I agree. If we force morality on our children then we might as well force religion. Bad idea in both cases.

How about the Story from the Gay press:
 

The story from a liberal source, to satisfy Cyrus:

pridesource.com

Controversy lingers over student gay rights group

CANNONSBURG, Ky. - Ten months after the Boyd County school board settled a lawsuit over a student gay rights group, the controversy continues to divide the northeastern Kentucky community that surrounds the high school.

As many as one-third of the students have skipped the settlement's requirement of tolerance training, an hour-long video.

The American Civil Liberties Union, which brought the suit against the district, said it may return to court in an effort to enforce mandatory training for students who missed it.

And now the school district is facing a possible lawsuit from an Arizona-based law group affiliated with several conservative Christian organizations. The group wants the district to adopt a formal policy by Nov. 30 allowing students to opt out of the training.

Re: How about the Story from the Gay press:
 

Stupid, stupid, stupid. As a high-schooler myself, our high school does have these types of things, "Day of Respect, (gets you out of class)" and they do try to force attendance by making you absent every time you skip it.

Still, you're not going to get mandatory attendance. It's just not possible. Kids have better things to do than get a dose of brainwashing. My school is liberal and I've still heard things about it being called brainwashing.

Try to force attendance all you want. You can't make kids attend class any more than you can make kids attend this video. In fact, what that school does over there sounds much, much LAMER than what they try to do at my school.

Students really couldn't care less about this type of training. It gets you out of class, and that's all.

Re: ACLU to sue to force Gay indoctrination at schools
 

but a "tolerance training video" is designed specifically to teach our children how to think.

I agree 100%. Better the schools work on teaching math and reading skills. After all, that is their job.

Re: ACLU to sue to force Gay indoctrination at schools
 

[ QUOTE ]
but a "tolerance training video" is designed specifically to teach our children how to think.

I agree 100%. Better the schools work on teaching math and reading skills. After all, that is their job.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, and with all the lawsuits mentioned in the article, the school district (or the taxpayers) must now be broke.

You conservatives are incredible...
 

you realize they are doing this because homosexuals have been killed because of the ignorance regarding homosexuality in middle america? Maybe if it wasnt for christian rhetoric telling you conservatives who is wrong and who is right we might be able to get past murdering people or harrassing people for who they love...Teaching tolerance and "forcing gay indoctrination" are two VERY different things. The complaints that homosexual tolerance magazines do not provide parents with advice on how to raise their child in a "godly" way are absurd because there are at least 30 magazines i can think of off the top of my head that devote entire issues to how to raise your child in a "godly" way. But i guess 30 to 1 isnt a good enough ratio for the religious right.

This district seems like it has good reason to pursue homosexual tolerance. Not allowing groups that support homosexual students is a blatent attempt at anti-homosexuality, this community could certainly benefit from being taught some tolerance for others.

I am certainly not encouraging forcing education on people, but i would say that with some self reflection, maybe these people who refuse to let their children attend school on the day where homosexual tolerance is taught should realize that they might benefit from learning a bit of tolerance toward a group of people they seem scared to death of.

rj

Re: ACLU to sue to force Gay indoctrination at schools
 

I agree with alot of the things the ACLU does but, they are wrong in this spot. It is not the job of our government to teach us morality. I personally wouldn't mind schools having a chapter about gay sex in sex education classes, but a "tolerance training video" is designed specifically to teach our children how to think. We cannot allow the government to teach children moral values(even if we agree with them). The risk is just too great. All it takes is to put one psychopath in power.


While I agree that schools cannot be in the business of teaching morality. We do want schools to teach our students to think - and preferably think for themselves.

The tolerance video mentioned was not limited to Gay/Lesbian issues, in case people missed that.

It would be unfortunate (and IMO doubtful) if the ACLU sued people to sit and watch the video. However, it is clear that the people of KY do need some tolerance training!

The real irony
 

The Federal Equal Access law under which the ACLU challenged the school and made it allow the group to function was actually sponsored by religious groups to give them the ability to start religious clubs.

Re: How about the Story from the Gay press:
 

So the school settled a law suit with the ACLU. The original lawsuit was about the school banning a gay group on campus. The terms of the settlement included the school requiring a tolerance video. The school is not requiring attendance and the ACLU is suing to enforce the settlement and somehow we should be mad at the ACLU? If the school didn't want to require attendance, don't agree to the original settlement agreement. The ACLU is just suing to enforce a legally binding contract (the settlement agreement.)

Re: ACLU to sue to force Gay indoctrination at schools
 

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While I agree that schools cannot be in the business of teaching morality. We do want schools to teach our students to think - and preferably think for themselves.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your right about this. But this is teaching them to think how the school beleives they should think, not how to think for themselves.

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The tolerance video mentioned was not limited to Gay/Lesbian issues, in case people missed that.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's beside the point

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However, it is clear that the people of KY do need some tolerance training!

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This may be true, however it is not the place of goverment institutions to force it upon them.

silly

Re: ACLU to sue to force Gay indoctrination at schools
 

[ QUOTE ]
but a "tolerance training video" is designed specifically to teach our children how to think

[/ QUOTE ]

Schools teach tolerance so that the atmosphere of the school is such that the three r's can be learned by all types of kids. Students distracted by irrational intollerance of their peers don't tend to do well in school, they are outcast and don't succeed. Schools that don't have such programs are doing a disservice to their students.

Re: How about the Story from the Gay press:
 

[ QUOTE ]
So the school settled a law suit with the ACLU. The original lawsuit was about the school banning a gay group on campus. The terms of the settlement included the school requiring a tolerance video. The school is not requiring attendance and the ACLU is suing to enforce the settlement and somehow we should be mad at the ACLU? If the school didn't want to require attendance, don't agree to the original settlement agreement. The ACLU is just suing to enforce a legally binding contract (the settlement agreement.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Did the settlement say anything about forcing students to attend, or did it just require that the school show the video? In most areas, students can already opt out of sex education without any penalty. Why should these videos be different?

Re: ACLU to sue to force Gay indoctrination at schools
 

But this is teaching them to think how the school beleives they should think, not how to think for themselves.

Exposing them to a tolerance video is not teaching them how the school believes they should think. If that is the case the school is doing a pretty poor job. Exposing students to information is not the same as teaching them how to think. If after the video the teacher stands up and says now it would be great if you go off and become gay or black or whatever that is one thing and clearly wrong. If all they are saying there are different types of people and encouraging discussion about the video then clearly that is a good thing.

You want them exposed to information and then have proper discussions around it.

however it is not the place of goverment institutions to force it upon them.

True no argument. But the people of KY need to take a close hard look at themselves.

Overall it seems that the ACLU actions to date have been sound and commendable. I am curious to see whether they force people to watch the videos -- as I said I doubt that report and have not seen any comment on the ACLU websites. However, another poster did make the valid point, that the ACLU is simply enforcing an agreement that was made. Clearly it must enforce its agreements - specially if the school has been guilty in the past of violating federal laws, as indeed it appears to have been.

Re: How about the Story from the Gay press:
 

ACLU release
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The settlement requires that the district treat all student clubs equally and conduct an anti-harassment training for all district staff as well as all students in high school and middle school

[/ QUOTE ]


The club in question was the Gay-Straight Alliance formed to combat "rampant" harrassment. It is not a homosexual club per se.

[ QUOTE ]
“This club has never been about anything but making a safe space for students who are harassed on a daily basis in our school,” said Kaye King, faculty adviser to the GSA. “We’re glad the school finally understands that and is taking steps to address the harassment in our district on a wider scale.”

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: How about the Story from the Gay press:
 

Thanks for the link.

I'm still not convinced though. A settlement can't override the rights of the parents and children involved. If they choose not to believe that homosexuality is worthy of their respect, then acceptance of gays shouldn't be hammered into them at government-mandated centers of education. Those who are open to the message will hear it and heed it. I still don't see why students should be allowed to skip sex ed but not these videos.

Re: How about the Story from the Gay press:
 

I agree on the rights of the parents etc.

That is why I am interested in seeing how this plays out with the ACLU. I cant see then forcing the viewing and I cant see them walking away from an agreement. A renegotiated agreement is in the offing -- most likely.

Incidentally, this is right on point with Cyrus' little sermon on hate crime legislation in another thread. Until the people in KY realize that their position is wrong for our society (if that is so, as I believe it to be) you can not legislate (or criminalize) them into changing their opinion. Showing and discussing tolerance videos however improves the chances that the next generation will change.

Re: ACLU to sue to force Gay indoctrination at schools
 

ACPLayer: The tolerance video mentioned was not limited to Gay/Lesbian issues, in case people missed that.

SillyArms: That's beside the point

Well actually it is not. The title of the thread is ACLU to force Gay Indoctrination. No one is forcing gay indoctrination. The video is about accepting gays and not about becoming gay (actually it seems it is about a lot more than just gays, but...).

Just as teaching kids that a condom can prevent AIDS and pregnancy is not the same as forcing them to copulate that afternoon (or ever).

Re: ACLU to sue to force Gay indoctrination at schools
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but a "tolerance training video" is designed specifically to teach our children how to think

[/ QUOTE ]

Schools teach tolerance so that the atmosphere of the school is such that the three r's can be learned by all types of kids. Students distracted by irrational intollerance of their peers don't tend to do well in school, they are outcast and don't succeed. Schools that don't have such programs are doing a disservice to their students.

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Do you how effective these programs are? Go to a high school, almost any high school, and check it out.

A video is going to especially uncompelling. You are not going to be able to force kids to sit through a one-hour tolerance video when they have more important things going on, like lunch, hanging out, and sex (jk, the lunch part is true tho).

PS. Forgot Halo 2 and sleep (depending on when exactly the video is). That's more important than a video to many kids.

Re: ACLU to sue to force Gay indoctrination at schools
 

Students distracted by irrational intollerance of their peers don't tend to do well in school

I know a way to accomplish this without a "tolerance" video. It's called strict discipline. What schools need are teachers and adminstrators with the balls to discipline disruptive students. *Why* they are being disruptive should be irrelevant for the purpose of controlling the classroom.

Re: ACLU to sue to force Gay indoctrination at schools
 

Hmm.... Interesting. Maybe I'd have gotten more than a hour of detention for swearing at the associate principal, and more than a letter home for telling my evil math teacher to "[censored] off."

Though, you can't expect administrators to be everywhere. Offensive and hurtful jokes are always cracked, and I've been on both ends on that. Kids are smart enough to get away with that, even under administrators or teachers noses, not to mention away from teachers and admins, so you can't expect to enforce it well.

Re: ACLU to sue to force Gay indoctrination at schools
 

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I personally wouldn't mind schools having a chapter about gay sex in sex education classes,

[/ QUOTE ]

Great idea.

Yes, that's correct Timmy, if you love your best friend Billy then you should lube up his a$$hole and then shove your cokc in. And Sally you're gonna want to "fist" Lucy because you are clearly a lesbian. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Re: ACLU to sue to force Gay indoctrination at schools
 

I don't think stricter discipline will solve this problem. Kids will harrass kids who are different, and the school will catch - has the time to catch - only a fraction of those. Also, this kind of thing will also crack down harder on kids who are acting out in class because they are uncomfortable outside of class - sometimes due to harassment.

I agree that a video won't fix the situation. Kids need administrators, parents and teachers who are tolerant and expect them to be. They need to support of individual staff. It won't do any good if the teacher is telling the kids, "Ok guys, time to go see this gay butt-love video cause those Volvo fascist kwars in the ACLU said so."

NT

Re: ACLU to sue to force Gay indoctrination at schools
 

Kids will harrass kids who are different, and the school will catch - has the time to catch - only a fraction of those.

I understand that, but that's not the job of the school. The job of the school is to teach the subjects, a job they are not doing as well as they used to. They catch what they catch, deal with the offenders and go back to doing their primary job.

Re: ACLU to sue to force Gay indoctrination at schools
 

I see you are still a moron. Can't you just stop posting and let the adults speak?

Have're you doing on the bet, btw?

Re: ACLU to sue to force Gay indoctrination at schools
 

I could prolly answer this if I knew what the hell Have're means. Maybe its Swedish for "I'm a flaming piece of dog shyt"

Re: ACLU to sue to force Gay indoctrination at schools
 

A video is probably not effective. However, a school that has an open and tolerant atmosphere, an atmosphere that is present not just in the 1-hour per semester watching the video does make a difference. You are never going to eliminate intollerance. However, you might succeed in reducing its grasp and, therefore, mitigating its effects.


[ QUOTE ]
Go to a high school, almost any high school, and check it out.

[/ QUOTE ]

I worked in the Dean's office of a high school for a while. The problem is getting better on most fronts. Much better than it was, for example, when I was in high school (which wasn't that much earlier than when I worked at the same high school.)

Re: ACLU to sue to force Gay indoctrination at schools
 

[ QUOTE ]
know a way to accomplish this without a "tolerance" video. It's called strict discipline

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not an either/or proposition. Strict discipline without working to cure the underlying problem doesn't do much. I'm curious how the libertarian-disciplinarian would handle a situation where kids are being picked on because, for example, their parents are poor. The teasing is very distracting to the child and his/her grades are slipping. The teasers, for lack of a better term, aren't really breaking any rules (assume no physical violence or profanity.)

How would you discipline them? On what grounds?


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*Why* they are being disruptive should be irrelevant for the purpose of controlling the classroom.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's just silly. Of course it's relevant and by addressing the core issues instead of solely using the band-aid of tough discipline you can prevent future problems.

Re: How about the Story from the Gay press:
 

The article doesn't say (unless I missed it) that the parents held the kids out of the tolerance video. Rather, it says that a large number of kids skipped the video. There is a very big difference.

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I still don't see why students should be allowed to skip sex ed but not these videos.

[/ QUOTE ]

Students aren't allowed to just "skip" sex ed.

Re: How about the Story from the Gay press:
 

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That is why I am interested in seeing how this plays out with the ACLU. I cant see then forcing the viewing and I cant see them walking away from an agreement. A renegotiated agreement is in the offing -- most likely.

Incidentally, this is right on point with Cyrus' little sermon on hate crime legislation in another thread. Until the people in KY realize that their position is wrong for our society (if that is so, as I believe it to be) you can not legislate (or criminalize) them into changing their opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree with all this.

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Showing and discussing tolerance videos however improves the chances that the next generation will change.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure I agree with this. It seems to me that the people who are the most prejudiced would be the least likely to pay attention to these videos.


Elwood: Students may not be able to just skip sex ed, but they can just get a note from their parents saying that they object to it or whatever. Or just forge a note. That's how it was when I was in high school, anyway. Speaking practically, this amounts to about the same thing.

Re: How about the Story from the Gay press:
 

[ QUOTE ]
Elwood: Students may not be able to just skip sex ed, but they can just get a note from their parents saying that they object to it or whatever

[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing in the article suggested to me that this was the case with the kids skipping the tolerance video.

Re: ACLU to sue to force Gay indoctrination at schools
 

The kiddies will have to watch Robert Smigel's "The Ambiguously Gay" duo cartoons fron SNL.

Re: ACLU to sue to force Gay indoctrination at schools
 

Nope, it's Swedish for how are you doing on the bet. Which you of course understood (not even I think you are that stupid), but prefered not to answer. Your bet has been called sir, and you failed miserably. But go ahead, dig deeper, please. That way we might get rid of you.

Re: ACLU to sue to force Gay indoctrination at schools
 

How would you discipline them? On what grounds?

Since when is causing a distraction in the classroom not against the rules?

That's just silly. Of course it's relevant and by addressing the core issues instead of solely using the band-aid of tough discipline you can prevent future problems.

The issue is that the video in question constitutes the school saying that teasing for this specific reason get's special attention, rather than taking the position that all teasing will be punished.

This is similar to hate-crime laws that make the thought behind the crime the issue, rather than the crime itself.

To be clear. Kids have every right to hate gays as long as they don't act on that hate. I'm not saying I agree with that hate, it's just that addressing issues like that is not the job of the schools.

As usual he was right.
 

Cyrus -- here's the odour you were looking for.

Re: ACLU to sue to force Gay indoctrination at schools
 

[ QUOTE ]
The issue is that the video in question constitutes the school saying that teasing for this specific reason get's special attention, rather than taking the position that all teasing will be punished.


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No, the video was about tolerance in general and there was a segment about gay issues.

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Since when is causing a distraction in the classroom not against the rules?

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And what if all the teasing occurs in the hallway or lunch or somewhere else but the effects are felt in the classroom. That is much more likely than directly in the classroom.

Re: ACLU to sue to force Gay indoctrination at schools
 

Tolerance should be extened to people not disgusting revolting and immoral behaviors. People have every right to engage in whatever sexual behavior they wish to, they also have no right to force people to accept their perversions as normal or acceptable. This social-engineering campaign by berkely professors and NY media men has been turned back America has been retook and I expect alot of changes...for liberals who cant TOLERATE(lol) this Canada is due north take a trip.

Re: ACLU to sue to force Gay indoctrination at schools
 

There is no Sweden its new name is little Turkey and its new official religion is Sunni Islam...get with the program