Unethical behavior at the table-- how do you handle it?
 

I was playing the 1/2 no-limit at Foxwoods today (and I won't bore you with the string of bad beats that have me in a really pissy mood right now) and I saw some things that I really was uncomfortable with.

First of all, one player would sell $100 in chips (the max buyin) to new players when they sat down, then the $100 bills would 'mysteriously' not be on the 20 minutes later. I came out and asked him what happened to the cash and he said he put it in his pocket. This is blatantly in violation of the entire concept of table stakes, particularly in big-bet poker and I told him so, explaining why it was inappropriate. He said something to the effect of 'so, are you going to turn me in?' and I, being overly nonconfrontational (read: a complete pansy), didn't. I never got involved in a big pot against him but, if I had, I would have been pretty pissed that he'd ratholed so much money. How do you handle this?

The second issue was with a player who kept going to his pocket and bringing money up to the table and sliding it under his chips. At Foxwoods, the rule is that you have to be below $40 to put more money on the table but this guy was doing it every time he got around $60. He was such a terrible player that I didn't really mind him having extra available but, again, he's breaking the rules and the dealer didn't notice/say anything and I don't think any of the other players were paying attention, either. How do you handle this?

Re: Unethical behavior at the table-- how do you handle it?
 

Ask the dealer what the rules are (even if you know them) and ask him/her to enforce them. Call the floor if you have to.

Re: Unethical behavior at the table-- how do you handle it?
 

just as mentioned. it is your responsibility also to say something. Especially since when a dealer changes he is not aware of the happenings and can miss things like this.

Re: Unethical behavior at the table-- how do you handle it?
 

Your problem is you played at the revovling door of a poker room known as Foxwoods poker and the dealers there dont give a [censored] for the most part because the casino is screwing them with the tokes.

Re: Unethical behavior at the table-- how do you handle it?
 

Don't be such a friggin' wimp. At the FIRST instance of ratholing by the a-hole, I would perhaps have told him about the table stakes rule. If he asked me if I would turn him in, I would say "yes, either you bring that money back up NOW or I call the floorman." These friggin' jerk-offs KNOW they are breaking the rules so SCREW them if they don't like it.

If it's a moron adding to his stack, fine, let it slide. If it's a good player, CALL THE FRIGGIN' FLOORMAN.

ANY unethical or rule-breaking behaviors should be instantly dealt with by alerting the dealer or calling the floorman. Don't screw around with these morons, particularly not the jerk-off internet wanna-be players who have no idea how to conduct themselves in a real cardroom.

al

Re: Unethical behavior at the table-- how do you handle it?
 

What Al said. Someone wants to play with the concept of table stakes, let them play cards in the back of their Volkswagon egg truck out in the parking lot. Tell the dealer to get in the frickin game.

Re: Unethical behavior at the table-- how do you handle it?
 

Of course you are all correct and I KNEW that's what I should've done but still didn't. I'm a wimp with stuff like this and I know it. Not a good excuse, but the dealer was totally out of his depth, too. With the tournament going on (500+65, part of the WPF) and the satellites for the big one, they were short dealers and pulled this guy off a Caribbean Stud game to come deal poker. He had no clue how to handle seat changes, buying the button, the dead small blind if a player leaves after his BB but before his SB etc. There were also instances of illegal raise sizes (eg. guy bets 40, next guy raises to 80 straight, original bettor makes it 100) that nobody said anything about. I'm not there to be the table cop, I'm there to play the game, hopefully make some money, and have a good time. If there were a better place to play live in New England, I'd definitely go there but I'm stuck with the 'Woods for now. I have no problem speaking up when there's a rule being broken but, on this particular day, there were so many that I just didn't want to deal with it. I should've either kept pointing things out or gone home but I didn't. Being the rules Nazi really cuts down on the amount of enjoyment I'll get out of playing.

Re: Unethical behavior at the table-- how do you handle it?
 

You simply must stand up for yourself. Once you do a couple times you may find that you like it.

Re: Unethical behavior at the table-- how do you handle it?
 

It's not as big a deal as you fear, to tell the guy he has to leave the money on the table and solicit the dealer's or floor's enforcement of the rule. I have done it multiple times over the years. It's a good rule that the money has to stay in play and on the table.

The other rule is horrible though, IMO. Not being able to add to your stack unless you are below $40 is just plain stupid, and hurts the game. Why is it stupid? Because the max buy-in is set at $100. Therefore you should be able to add to your stack at any time in order to bring it up to $100. Otherwise it is a max buy-in of $100 but only on your first buy. After that it is a max buy-in of $60, and only when you are below $40. Does that make any sense at all? The idea of a max buy-in is to limit how much you can have on the table without having won more to boost your stake. If that amount is determined to be 100 there is no reason it should later drop to a lower figure. What this rule basically does is screw the people who get slightly stuck.

Re: Unethical behavior at the table-- how do you handle it?
 

Actually, the rule about rebuying is that, once you drop below $40, you can buy in for $100 more. Many players sit with $40, post, then immediately buy $100 more before the next hand (basically giving them $138 to start). It royally screws you when you're sitting with $50-$60 and finally pick up a big hand. If I had the bankroll to regularly sit in the $5/$5 blind game, I'd do so as it has no maximum buyin ($200 minimum).

Re: Unethical behavior at the table-- how do you handle it?
 

Thanks for the clarification.

Still I see no reason why players shouldn't be able to bring their stacks up to 100 at any time. Crappy rule.

Re: Unethical behavior at the table-- how do you handle it?
 

Yeah I would have called the floor in like 3 seconds.

Once I was playing live NL and after a player left a few guys were talking about how they saw him palm like $15 off his stack a few times and put it into his pocket and I freaked out wondering why they wouldn't expose him like I would have.

Re: Unethical behavior at the table-- how do you handle it?
 

A little off topic, but is it acceptable to take money from your stack in a cash NL game to

a) pay the time charge
b) tip the waitstaff for drinks
c) pay the waitstaff for food

Re: Unethical behavior at the table-- how do you handle it?
 

1. absolutely not
2. not really
3. if i had the cash i just use that

these are just my opinions, of course.

Re: Unethical behavior at the table-- how do you handle it?
 

[ QUOTE ]
then the $100 bills would 'mysteriously' not be on the 20 minutes later.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? "not be on the ..." what? Table? This thought is missing something, or I just don't understand what you're saying.

If you're up, you can't pocket money? Is there a rule against taking money off the table? How about standing up and leaving? This seems to be a different issue than everone has posted about here (adding money to a short stack). Never played at Foxwoods. Not trying to be a smart-ass, I just don't understand the issue here.

Re: Unethical behavior at the table-- how do you handle it?
 

Say you buy in for $100 and win it up to $300.... you can just start taking red chips off the table and puting them into your pocket. You can leave the table completely and take all your chips if you want to, but when you come back you can only buy in with $100.

Taking money off the table screws up table stakes, ie you can only play with what is on the table.

Re: Unethical behavior at the table-- how do you handle it?
 

[ QUOTE ]
A little off topic, but is it acceptable to take money from your stack in a cash NL game to

a) pay the time charge

[/ QUOTE ]
absolutely, it is expected that you pay the rake from your stack. I have never seen anyone pay the rake out of their pockets

[ QUOTE ]

b) tip the waitstaff for drinks

[/ QUOTE ]
yes, almost everyone tips from their stacks. Some dont but its because they want to know exactly what their hourly rate is

[ QUOTE ]

c) pay the waitstaff for food

[/ QUOTE ]
This is also acceptable. In the rules it states that you are allowed to take money off the table for food. Although it is not as common as tipping the waitstaff

Dave

Table stakes rule... Im confused
 

OK, Im a limit player, but I dont understand why taking money off the table is unethical (though obviously I understand why other players dont like it, since their "losses" are now unrecoverable to an extent.)

As somebody has said, if you can sit down and buy in for up to $100, why can you not always recharge so you have a full stack of $100?

Similarly, since the rule is a minimum buy in rule, why is it problematic to take money off the table as long as you leave at least the minimum on the felt?

I understand why a maximum rule makes sense. Otherwise, if you have the bankroll, you can sit down with enough to cover the next largest chipstack, and enjoy an immediate advantage not available to those with a smaller bankroll.

But how does taking money off the table help you strategically? I dont see how it can. It helps your opponent since you aren't as deep behind the line.

Re: Table stakes rule... Im confused
 

The theory is that people should have a right to win their money back. It is kind of like if you had $500 in front of you and said "I want to go all-in with only $50."

Re: Table stakes rule... Im confused
 

Yes, except a player has the right to get up and leave at any time, then sit down again and buy in for up to the maximum. Since there is a legal & ethical way to evade the rule, the rule makes no sense to me.

Re: Table stakes rule... Im confused
 

[ QUOTE ]
the rule makes no sense to me.

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well, like you said you don't play no limit.

Re: Table stakes rule... Im confused
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, except a player has the right to get up and leave at any time, then sit down again and buy in for up to the maximum. Since there is a legal & ethical way to evade the rule, the rule makes no sense to me.

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I believe the Borgata has a rule that if you return to a game of the same limit within one hour, you must return with the same amount you took off the table. You can't just stand up, spin around, and sit back down with chips stuffed in your pockets, even if there is no list.

lol, uh, what HE said!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Don't be such a friggin' wimp. At the FIRST instance of ratholing by the a-hole, I would perhaps have told him about the table stakes rule. If he asked me if I would turn him in, I would say "yes, either you bring that money back up NOW or I call the floorman." These friggin' jerk-offs KNOW they are breaking the rules so SCREW them if they don't like it.

[/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ]
ANY unethical or rule-breaking behaviors should be instantly dealt with by alerting the dealer or calling the floorman.

[/ QUOTE ]

Players should police there tables. It helps with the integrity of the room. If allowed to continue, it could affect the room detrimentally.

What are you gonna do about it? What a line that guy gave. Yeah, i am, dork! Eat ****!

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particularly not the jerk-off internet wanna-be players who have no idea how to conduct themselves in a real cardroom

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In fairness, i haven't run into these types much. But a line that slows them down and hits their ego a bit is, '1st time in a cardroom?'

b

Re: Unethical behavior at the table-- how do you handle it?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not there to be the table cop, I'm there to play the game, hopefully make some money, and have a good time. If there were a better place to play live in New England, I'd definitely go there but I'm stuck with the 'Woods for now. I have no problem speaking up when there's a rule being broken but, on this particular day, there were so many that I just didn't want to deal with it. I should've either kept pointing things out or gone home but I didn't. Being the rules Nazi really cuts down on the amount of enjoyment I'll get out of playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it continues to be a problem in the room, you not saying anything contributes to it.

b