A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

I have read the advice/topics on this site for about three months now. And overall, I find generally the same individuals repsonding to the the majority of the posts that matter. You know who you are I won't name names. What I find is that responses to honest questions from beginners or intermediates are met with this crass attitude of superiority. The person ending up making to original post which started with an innocent question or comment ends up getting berated or made fun of along that way. Now if this was from casual stray people who make up a screen name and password and stay on for a day and who just respond to belittle i would ignore it. But amazingly, its from the regulars (like i said, you know who you are but are probably in denial).

I made this post for one reason. Because poker players get a bad rap. They are, in general, seen as 'mopes', who waste away their day. They are seen as rude, ignorant and obnoxious by a large portion of society. So when I see rude and obnoxious comments to posts, I think this perception society has of the 'poker player' is substantiated. Please, if you dont believe me, just read some of comments about, for example, how someone played AK wrong (and its always wrong if you didnt play it EXACTLY how the respondent would have liked it). The regulars on this site are so blind to their poor attitudes any responses to this post will probably tell me to "get some balls" or "you whine too much! you cant take constructive criticism"...So please, to all the regular posters, I wont name names for the sake of sparing them from embarrassment..stop acting like "mopes", answer questions cordially, and stop advancing society's stereotypes of the rude ignorant poker player...this is a great site and great resource. Don't ruin it.

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

Wow are you harsh! It's like needles and pins in my genitals. I can't stop crying.

Then again, maybe I'm jaded. I tend to live on the other side of "the line."

~D

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

You must be new to online forums. This is the norm for forums on the internet not just 2+2.

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

if you were a good player you'd be tough enough to take it.

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/stfu7.jpg

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

[ QUOTE ]
I made this post for one reason. Because poker players get a bad rap. They are, in general, seen as 'mopes', who waste away their day. They are seen as rude, ignorant and obnoxious by a large portion of society.

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A large portion of society isn't thinking about poker players. If any portion IS thinking about poker players, they're thinking of the guys they see on television, not you and me.

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So when I see rude and obnoxious comments to posts, I think this perception society has of the 'poker player' is substantiated.

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The perception is generally a reality. Look around a poker room sometime. Do you see noble, kind, helpful individuals looking out for one another? No.

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Please, if you dont believe me, just read some of comments about, for example, how someone played AK wrong (and its always wrong if you didnt play it EXACTLY how the respondent would have liked it).

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Please reference the thread in question so we can get an example of what's got you so riled up. Most regular posters here, and many non-regular posters, know that how you play a hand depends on circumstances. I contend that what you've just complained about here didn't happen - that all the regular posters didn't berate the player for playing AK in a way they didn't deem proper. I bet for each "regular" poster, you got a different answer. And, I also would bet, that the original poster probably didn't give enough information for those regular posters to really give a definitive answer about how to play the hand.

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The regulars on this site are so blind to their poor attitudes any responses to this post will probably tell me to "get some balls" (snip) stop acting like "mopes", answer questions cordially

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So often people post hands that are woefully incomplete, poorly remembered or documented or posted strictly for the poster to crow about how smart and great they are. It gets tiresome reading that stuff. Regular posters here give a huge amount of their time to freely share their experience. If a poster is being habitually rude or nasty, complain to the moderator. I don't think the majority of regular posters could be classified this way.

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and stop advancing society's stereotypes of the rude ignorant poker player...this is a great site and great resource. Don't ruin it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Poker players are, by and large, ignorant and rude. This forum tends to have a much higher percentage of thoughtful, helpful and useful individuals. The actions of the regular posters here won't cover the fact that most poker players found in the world's poker rooms are, indeed, mopes.

I am not a regular poster, just an occasional mope.

Regards,

T

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

The biggest problem with this site in the past few months is the increased posts and responses in the "prestige" forums from barely mediocre to downright clueless players.

If you think the tone on here is rough, you haven't been to many other discussion boards. The best thing about twoplustwo is that it is moderated and relatively civil.

scrub

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

Why the heck did I spend so much time typing? That said it all.

Regards,

T

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

[ QUOTE ]
The biggest problem with this site in the past few months is the increased posts and responses in the "prestige" forums from barely mediocre to downright clueless players.

If you think the tone on here is rough, you haven't been to many other discussion boards. The best thing about twoplustwo is that it is moderated and relatively civil.

scrub

[/ QUOTE ]

Ive been on other discussion boards and yes the majority of responses are meant to belittle people..so you are right there..but i like reading about poker, certain hands, theory, and the like, and I get a general tone of the more experienced players being on a pedestal looking down on the newbies...Its almost like i dont want to read the posts anymore..they start out innocent enough with a general and somewhat intelligent question in most instances but then degenerate into more of an insult contest by the (self-proclaimed see above) 'mopes'. So please, just answer the question and stop being defamatory so i can read something civil and dignified. As Charles Barkley would say in those deoderant commercials, "anything less (than what i ask) would be uncivilized."

Fin (french for 'end' or 'the end') (you guys are like the french in a way...rude arrogant and ignorant)

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

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http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/stfu7.jpg

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Please Richard Dawson is a symbolizes a man of honor and integrity and would never use the defamatory phrase you propose...if you want to use a game show host with no honor, please settle on Bob Barker (sexually harassed his Barker girls) or Joe Rogan (host of Fear Factor...need I say more)..these men pay very little attention to others feelings...kinda like the regulars on this site

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

Fin (french for 'end' or 'the end') (you guys are like the french in a way...rude arrogant and ignorant)

Of what are French people ignorant?

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

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Fin (french for 'end' or 'the end') (you guys are like the french in a way...rude arrogant and ignorant)

Of what are French people ignorant?

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As I recall from when I was there, deodorant.

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

"if you were a good player you'd be tough enough to take it."

for those of you who read this and it came off as a joke and nothing more think again. getting kicked around by the superior players/posters here made me tougher and taught me that serious poker is a big boys game full of obnoxious pricks like snakehead. and im all the better for it.

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fin (french for 'end' or 'the end') (you guys are like the french in a way...rude arrogant and ignorant)


[/ QUOTE ]

Way to undermine any credibility you may have had.

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

I had never really thought about it like that. I feel really bad and will never be mean again.

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

Of all the posts you respond to, you choose to berate the guy for choosing a pic with Richard Dawson.

the problem with 2+2 isn't that people are mean. It's that you are an idiot.

-AA

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

[ QUOTE ]
but i like reading about poker, certain hands, theory, and the like

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Its almost like i dont want to read the posts anymore..

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So please, just answer the question and stop being defamatory so i can read something civil and dignified.

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Lawrence, all I can do at this point is hope that I've done nothing to detract from your enjoyment. If I have, I humbly apologize and hope that you will forgive me.

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

"Fin (french for 'end' or 'the end') (you guys are like the french in a way...rude arrogant and ignorant)"

This demonstration of wit would have pleased Oscar Wilde.

-Michael

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

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Now if this was from casual stray people who make up a screen name and password and stay on for a day...

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Lawrence has a grand total of 3 posts. Does anyone else see the irony here?

Lawrence - It appears that either 1) you are easily upset and probably cry alot, OR 2) you have a sort of school teacher-type superiority complex where you feel it is your responsibility to correct others for their actions that don't fit within your personally defined norms. I am quite certain that a 2+2 poll would show that most posters agree with one (or both) of these observations.

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

and if you want to be a winning player you better learn to be tough enough.

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

poker is after all a full contact sport [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

1) I Agree
2) I Agree

Until "Lawrence" can separate his feelings from his game, he will not be a winning player. Plain and simple. That's one of the first things I learned from this site.

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

There was a thread probably 6 months ago where people said the place was getting too friendly, particulary the Limit forums where some of the older posters stated when they were novices they would have new arses ripped by the then regulars when posting badly played hands, rather than taking offense they looked at the advice learned from it and I assume became better players.

This is the internet you have to get a thick skin and a big bullshit detector to survive. I understand Astroglide sells them along with his Pattern Map products, I suggest you purchase both.

In the main this place is pretty friendly and will help people, but when newbies post stupid stuff they will get the replies they deserve.

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

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but i like reading about poker, certain hands, theory, and the like

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Its almost like i dont want to read the posts anymore..

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So please, just answer the question and stop being defamatory so i can read something civil and dignified.

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Lawrence, all I can do at this point is hope that I've done nothing to detract from your enjoyment. If I have, I humbly apologize and hope that you will forgive me.

[/ QUOTE ]


Ladies and gentlemen, if you all are dignified enough to receive that title, here is a man of honor and integrity...see quote above. Thank you for that Diablo.

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

[ QUOTE ]
"if you were a good player you'd be tough enough to take it."

for those of you who read this and it came off as a joke and nothing more think again. getting kicked around by the superior players/posters here made me tougher and taught me that serious poker is a big boys game full of obnoxious pricks like snakehead. and im all the better for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

honest evaluation...unfortunately my fear is that the more i hang around the poker players who are 'pricks and snakeheads' i have a fear i will morph into one...you are only a product of your environment...to all...lets make poker a sport of grace, like golf or polo...not some game played by run-down gamblers in New York city cellars looked down upon

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

we have a great bunch of people posting and reading here. poker players are individualists. and thats that. i wouldnt want to change any of them. carry on fellas and girls.

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

[ QUOTE ]
Of all the posts you respond to, you choose to berate the guy for choosing a pic with Richard Dawson.

the problem with 2+2 isn't that people are mean. It's that you are an idiot.

-AA

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I like richard dawson. I grew up watching family feud. He appears to be a nice and gracious man and would never choose the heinous acronym posted earlier (i.e. STFU) when he goes to the 'survey!'...speaking of surveys...

Richard to Frank: Tell me something that is rude and ignorant
Frank: the majority of members on 2+2 poker
Richard: SURVEY SAYS!....:::Bing:::
RIchard: Thats the number one answer Frank! Have a lollipop.

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

My feeling about this site is that people tend to get the kind of treatment they deserve.

The vast majority of new posters are welcomed and treated well. There are a few that are not and that is usually because they come in with a certain attitude that people object to. They usually start out by telling us how much money they have made online, that they have a safe full of cash, or some such nonsense.

Sometimes posters insist on holding on to some ideas about poker that are very wrong. You have to be very blunt with them.

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

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...lets make poker a sport of grace, like golf or polo...not some game played by run-down gamblers in New York city cellars looked down upon

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The irony here is that both of these sports have been holdouts in terms of equal female participation and class distinction.

I do understand what you are suggesting, but it's like trying to make a turkey fly. It's just not in the cards. Poker is about money. It's about taking other people's money and not giving your money to them. It's not about white gloves and tea on Sunday.

-Diplomat

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but i like reading about poker, certain hands, theory, and the like

[/ QUOTE ]
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Its almost like i dont want to read the posts anymore..

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So please, just answer the question and stop being defamatory so i can read something civil and dignified.

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Lawrence, all I can do at this point is hope that I've done nothing to detract from your enjoyment. If I have, I humbly apologize and hope that you will forgive me.

[/ QUOTE ]


Ladies and gentlemen, if you all are dignified enough to receive that title, here is a man of honor and integrity...see quote above. Thank you for that Diablo.

[/ QUOTE ]

I suspect you may need a sarcasm and Irony detector as well. Unless mine is faulty.

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

Lawrence,

You are not the thought police, but I suspect you're a troll. If you don't like what you're reading here, then don't read this site. Period. Sorry to put it so indelicately, but you have to grow a thick hide when you play poker, and the same is true for posting ANYTHING on ANY internet forum. If you step out of line, the minions will smack you around.

We have a common goal here, which is to improve our poker skills. I, for one, want to know the hard facts of the mistakes I make. I don't want it sugar-coated.

It is always advisable to read the forums before posting. Many newbies just jump right in and, well, get what they deserve. I was one of them. I learned. Now I'm back. No offense taken.

So, lighten up and enjoy this site or find another one more suited to your taste. It's up to you.

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

You know I've been lambasted more than my share on the forums, but I've also had some nice folks who try to point me in the right direction.

I just try to filter through the sarcasm and PMS'y remarks from the negative posters and try to understand the salient points of the post.

I'm also comforted by the fact that the oft-rude bashers are probably socially-awkward losers who feel empowered to act out their alpha-dog fantasies in a nameless, faceless internet forum...and probably they couldn't get laid in a morgue. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

The whole idea behind playing poker is not caring what society thinks of you.

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

Don't be such a pussy, you prick.

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

Lawrence,

Poker is a game where only the strong survive. You have to deal with obnoxious people all the time, and everyone is trying to take away your liveliehood, either for entertainment or to support themselves. Additionally, there are a lot of things that are beyond your control, basically, you can be really unlucky for a long time. You need to be able to take this everyday abuse if you have any hope of being a real winner.

As for the boards, the reason that several posters say "how someone played AK wrong" there's a reason: it's "wrong" if it doesn't make the most money. Seldom are there choices that aren't the sole, correct ones in limit poker. If you can't take somebody telling you that you were flat wrong, then you have NO HOPE of getting better. If you want to drop my name as a prick poster, go ahead. I can take it, believe me. At least I won't go broke, unlike the person who won't ever learn the correct plays because he's afraid of getting his feelings hurt.

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

[ QUOTE ]
Lawrence,

If you want to drop my name as a prick poster, go ahead. I can take it, believe me. At least I won't go broke, unlike the person who won't ever learn the correct plays because he's afraid of getting his feelings hurt.

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Oh im not worried about going broke, I wouldnt be playing the game if i wasn't in the green. And its not about my feelings primarily. It is about others. Here's an example. I am also a bodybuilder. I followed Arnold S.'s routine to a tee as published in the "encyclopedia of modern bodybuilding." That was when i was 14. Little did i know at the time that the man was on steroids. As oblivious as that may seem, I was young and believed if i worked hard enough i could get his physique with hard work. Needless to say, doing 25 sets for bi's 25 sets for tris and 30 sets for back ALL in one day as recommended in one portion of the book, was serverely overtraining, and my growth was stagnant for 4 years. Then I was corrected as a freshman at my college gym by a genuinely concerned honest and forthright senior. He approached the issue with delicacy yet was to the point. If he had said "your all fu**ed up man, your doing it all wrong" i wouldnt have listened to a word. But he didn't. He was nice about it. And now my physique is all the better for it. And newbies cardplaying, with their brash bankroll opening lines, can be approached in the same manner and their cardplaying will be all the better too. Its all in the introduction. You need finesse, not crudeness. Please take note of this. The poker playing community will be all the better if everyone abides.

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

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He appears to be a nice and gracious man and would never choose the heinous acronym posted earlier (i.e. STFU)

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hmmm... I wasn't aware that Mr. Dawson was permitted to choose the survey results for use on the show.

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

[ QUOTE ]
honest evaluation...unfortunately my fear is that the more i hang around the poker players who are 'pricks and snakeheads' i have a fear i will morph into one...you are only a product of your environment...to all...lets make poker a sport of grace, like golf or polo...not some game played by run-down gamblers in New York city cellars looked down upon

[/ QUOTE ]

well, poker isn't a sport of grace, like gold or polo. in fact, it's not a sport at all. it's a game. a game where the objective is to take your opponents money. it is a dirty game, where people drink and smoke and swear and some people even try to cheat. and some people like it this way.

in fact, if it wasn't for all the new fish the popularity of poker has brought in, i can't wait for it to die down a bit. some of the poker stuff i see around is just downright ridiculous.

and honestly, there are a lot of people who just need others to stop the sugar coated responses and tell them straight up what they need to hear. in my mind, having someone respond is best most of the times, and way better then if they didn't give a response at all.

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

Don't you coach the New Jersey Nets?

Re: A harsh but honest message to all 2+2\'ers
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you can't take somebody telling you that you were flat wrong, then you have NO HOPE of getting better. If you want to drop my name as a prick poster, go ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that doesn't qualify you as a prick-poster at all. There's a difference btwn analyzing hand play turn-to-turn and saying "NO, this is WRONG! here's why..."
vs.
"God, the stupid-train rolled into the station early today..." or "Your post doesn't belong here, Fish. Don't waste space reserved for deserving posts..."

But Lawrence, seriously, I agree w/ a poster above here; people aren't going to change; it's the nature of the beast.
Some are really cool and write so easily on hard ideas that you wish you could just think as well as they can think & write (e.g. GoT, StellarWind, jtr, etc)
Other guys are just rude & arrogant. But sometimes btwn insults, even they have something important for you to latch onto. Sometimes they're just being mean or spiteful or grouchy or whatever...
Beginners just have to take feedback, think about it, and distill it into something actionable. Or, just discard it as noise or worthless...I think once you're able to do that, you're on the fast track to improvement...