mucked trips
 

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (9 handed)

UTG ($136.4)
UTG+1 ($34.9)
Hero ($54.65)
MP2 ($143.93)
MP3 ($48.5)
CO ($43.35)
Button ($47.55)
SB ($109.62)
BB ($62.2)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls $1, MP2 calls $1, MP3 folds, <font color="CC3333">CO raises to $4</font>, Button folds, SB calls $3.50, BB folds, Hero calls $3, MP2 calls $3.

Flop: ($17) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks, CO checks.

Turn: ($17) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets $20</font>, Hero folds, <font color="CC3333">MP2 raises to $40</font>, CO folds, SB calls $20.

River: ($97) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">MP2 bets $99.93 (All-In)</font>, SB calls $65.62 (All-In).

Final Pot: $262.55
<font color="green">Main Pot: $228.24, between MP2 and SB.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by MP2 ($228.24).</font>
<font color="green">Pot 2: $34.31, returned to MP2.</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
SB has Qs Jc (two pair, queens and jacks).
MP2 has Ks Qd (two pair, kings and queens).
Outcome: MP2 wins $262.55. </font>


I was sick when I saw the cards, and it's rare for me to muck trips so want to make sure that I did the right thing.

Did I totally blow this, I usually slow play trips and hope that someone catches a piece of it on the flop, if nothing happens I start betting on the turn and try to build a pot.
Had I stayed I would have won, but it seems that the majority of the time this ends up being a -ev play for me to stay in this circumstance after the turn with the betting and 3 to the flush on board.

This is my first hand post so be gentle [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]


One Street at a Time
wdbaker Denver, Co

Re: mucked trips
 

Sets are a very vulnerable hand. You should rarely slowplay them and this hand is a perfect example. Bet out the flop and be happy to take down the preflop action. Since you didn't do this you're in a sticky situation when you're in a 4-way pot with a 3-flush on the board...I probably fold here too but it's pretty read dependent.

Re: mucked trips
 

you made mistake by not betting on flop on a straight/flush cards on flop. but you must call that 20$ because of implied odds of taking other guys stack when board pairs to beat his flush/straight. (which it does 1 in 3 times) and of course call the additional 20$ raise. folding on river is debatable.

Re: mucked trips
 

raising preflop w/ JJ would have been a good move. But you should call the 20, like was mentioned earlier, for the implied odds of rivering a boat or quads. Don't slowplay a set with a flush draw or straight draw on the flop. Only slow play it on a raggedy disconnected rainbow flop. That way you aren't letting anybody catch their draws for free, and it is unlikely for anyone to have anything so you want to let them catch something.

Re: mucked trips
 

Don't check the flop.

Re: mucked trips
 

like all the others have said, don't check the flop. Bet it hard. I guarantee you the others will not put you on a set at this level but would think you had something like TP good kicker. Guy with KQ probably would have even raised. Then of course you push reraise.

For future reference, set refers to when you make 3 of a kind with a pocket pair in your hand. Trips refer to 3 of a kind when pair is on the board.

Re: mucked trips
 

come on guys, checking the flop isnt that big of a mistake, and it certainly wasnt the largest one in this hand. (c/r the flop is a valid play against some opponents) You need to call that turn bet. when the sb bets, i put him on a pair or 2 pair, and not a flush. how many players overbet a made flush on that turn? the more standard play is an underbet or a turn check raise. even if made a bet that looks like a potential flush, you still call, as he would play lower trips, 2 pair, even 1 pair this way.

i wouldnt raise because i dont want lesser non flush hands to be given the chance to fold.

Re: mucked trips
 

Ok, I know, I don't normally slow play them with two too the flush on the board, I was taking a chance there in that with two face cards on the flop I figured someone would bet the flop having got a piece of it, giving me a chance to either call or reraise. I think not having better position may have affected me. The pot size bet from the SB kind of threw me on the turn, maybe if I hadn't been playing 3 tables and had more time to think I would have played this better. Hopefully this will help me make the right decision next time. Still not sure had I stayed that I wouldn't have folded with everyone pushing in on the river, I'm just amazed no one had the flush [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Party eh...

Can anyone think of similar circumstances where it would be appropriate to fold your set?

Thanks for all the input

One Street at a Time
wdbaker Denver, Co

Re: mucked trips
 

There's $16 in the pot and you got $50 in front of you. Alot of drawing hands 9 10, AK or A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]X[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] that could be in there. I'd put in a healthy raise to remove the draws and hopefully get AK or AQ to call. Although, with your stack, pushing all in on the flop isnt a bad idea.

Re: mucked trips
 

You've gotta bet this flop and bet it pretty aggressively. There is a straight draw and a flush draw, and the pot is already pretty decent. In NL, you can't get too greedy, and you have to charge people to see cards. The only time I really like to slowplay in NL is with the nuts or near nuts (especially online)...otherwise a vulnerable hand like this can easily be beaten on 4th or 5th street. So yea...bet out and let the guys with 2 pair and top pair reraise you and then go all in before they can hit their hands. Good luck.

Re: mucked trips
 

I would've bet the flop (maybe a semi-weak bet to induce a raise), especially since there are 2 to a flush. That turn sucks, as it puts a straight and a flush out there, but I don't think that either of these hands would overbet the pot like that. You still have plenty of outs to catch your full house (11).

Re: mucked trips
 

[img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]
Bad wdbaker, bad bad bad...
Ha ha ha, seriously though, that was terrible poker right there. First, don't ever limp first in with JJ from middle position - EVER! Jack's are very difficult to play. I consider it to be one of the most difficult starting hands to correctly play. Your pre-flop play is what got you into all this mess to begin with. I usually open-raise for 4xBB, but this seems like a looser table than most, so you probably would have done well to raise it to $5. It seems like the CO liked his hand and he may even have re-raised. I actually would put him on AKs since he raised several limpers and then folded to a bet when nothing hit him. Second mistake was your flop play. Right now you have the best hand - but MANY hands can out draw you. Don't ever give free cards like this. You should have bet out for at least 2/3 the pot, but probably bet the pot since there are str8 and flush draws out there. With such bad pot odds to this pot, only KQ had any business calling (he would be correct to raise, however) and then you could have been more certain that your set was still good when the flush card hit. If you did bet the pot and were called by a flush draw, honestly they would need exactly A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. On the turn, there really is a split decision regarding the correct move when you fear that a player has outdrawn you on the turn. Many pros say that you should check hands with outs, and bet hands with few of no outs. However, if you check you may have to lay it down if someone goes all-in - which they would be correct to do. Had it been raised pre-flop and bet on the flop, the pot is now large on the turn and a flush will want to win it there. You do have outs, so I would say that you should go ahead and bet the turn, perhaps $20 or so. You should have called a bet like that anyway, so go ahead and bet it. Any spot where a call is in order, or even almost in order, you can go ahead and bet if you feel that there is any reasonable chance that the other guy will fold....

Re: mucked trips
 

All,
Thanks again for the good info,
no slow playing unless I have the nuts
no slow playing unless I have the nuts
no slow playing unless I have the nuts
no slow playing unless I have the nuts
especially if there is a potential draw to str8 or flush

Plenty of outs to draw to
Plenty of outs to draw to
Plenty of outs to draw to


Ok, think I got it now [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

One Street at a Time
wdbaker Denver, Co

Re: mucked trips
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, I know, I don't normally slow play them with two too the flush on the board, I was taking a chance there in that with two face cards on the flop I figured someone would bet the flop having got a piece of it, giving me a chance to either call or reraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't checkraise sets in NL cash games. You typically end up killing your own action. Leading for between 2/3 pot and 125% of the pot protects your hand and induces allin reraises by draws and two pair/top pair.

Lead that shi7.

Re: mucked trips
 

No, you don't get it... yet.

It's not about slowplaying the nuts. Sure, if you're holding 7's and the flop is 775 it may be worth a slowplay. However, the decision isn't about having the nuts, it's about how likely it is that your oponent will draw out and beat you. SOMETIMES it is correct to slowplay top pair - you may be heads up, you may be fairly certain that he also has top pair but with a worse kicker and the odds that he will pair his kicker are small so it's ok to slowplay. It's also not about pushing out flush draws, either. If your oponent always bets his strong draws when the pot is short handed and he checks, feel free to slowplay your set since it's not a flush that you are worried about. Know your oponent, examine the board...