Trying to \"Lose\" - home game question
 

I got invited to play in a new home game last night for the first time. They are people I casually know through playing on sports teams, but rarely hang out with outside of that.

This situation seems unique, but I'm wondering if it's got some long term merit.

I have played for the last 2 weeks. They play 2 NLHE 1 Table tournaments. 8 people the first week, 9 the second.

$10 entry, 2nd $20, first place gets the rest.

The first week I played I took 1st the first game, and second the second. So I won $60 profit

Last night I took first the first game out of 9 People.

I really just played regular tournament tight ABC poker, and was way ahead of these guys. They would chase with any 2 suited, call with any Ace, etc.

It really should be easy money for me in the long term.

Which leads me to my "dilema" from last night.

Since I am still new, and would like to keep playing, and don't want to piss these people off, would it be worth it to maybe not bring my "A" game? loosen up my starting hands, chase a little more. This would just be for one game, maybe every 2 weeks, kind of ensure the fish get to win. Like last night, after cashing in 3 straight over 2 weeks, is the 4th game a good chance to "fluff" it?

I know it's -EV for the game, but if it's something I can win regualarly, is it +EV for the long term?

Or should I just say screw it, play until they kick me out?

Re: Trying to \"Lose\" - home game question
 

Are they acting like they are getting P.O.'ed? Are you being real humble and saying things like how lucky you've been, can't believe the great cards you are getting, etc.? When you river a flush that they have given you odds to chase make sure you point how lucky you are getting. I would think that at some point no matter how much better you are then them you will lose without trying to dump. Bad cards, a bad beat, see you later. If your streak continues too long then maybe you do want to try to dump one.

Re: Trying to \"Lose\" - home game question
 

well they were starting to get a little frustrated last night as I built up my chip stack. I don't think they notice how often I fold, so when I have AQ vs. their A5, I tell them "lucky deal" for me. If I hit a flush that they forgot to bet the river with their top 2, I'd just shrug and tell them I had a hunch. I always play very humble, and try to keep the conversation to things besides the cards.

I know long term I won't place every one, but after 3 in a row (on my first 3 playing) I was wondering if #4 was a good place.

Re: Trying to \"Lose\" - home game question
 

Dosnt matter how good you are and how bad they are you will lose at some point anyway.

Re: Trying to \"Lose\" - home game question
 

I know this. and I don't expect to win them all. But since I'm a newb at their game, don't want to piss them off right off the bat.

Re: Trying to \"Lose\" - home game question
 

If I really thought there was a chance that I was in danger of not getting invited back, then I would dump the 4th game. But if you're being a gracious winner and engaging in a lively conversation not related to the game then I wouldn't think they would kick you out for doing well. So what happened in the 4th game?

Re: Trying to \"Lose\" - home game question
 

I dumped it. But not because I thought it was the "best long term play".

I dumped it because I had a long day of work and wasn't really in the mood for another 1 1/2 of poker. I finished 7th, and left about 5-10 minutes after busting out. I wasn't bitter, and pushed a hand against a big stack where I knew he would only call me if he was ahead.

I didn't feel comfortable winning the first game, and ditching the 2nd. They always play 2, so I kind of knew the deal, I just wasn't in the mood to play the second game, but didn't want to win and ditch.

On the way home I was just wondering if it would help me in the long term. That's why I posted this.

Re: Trying to \"Lose\" - home game question
 

I have done the same thing. I play a weekly 7-8 person tournament with some guys from school and can pretty much beat it at will due to their generally weak play. So after a few first or second places in a row, I take a dive, just so they don't get too frustrated with me.

Re: Trying to \"Lose\" - home game question
 

Alcohol is the great equalizer. Bring drinks and start drinking. Try to play your "A" game. After a few drinks, your "A" game will deteriorate, but you'll still play well enough to win more often than not. Make sure you're having fun. If you have fun, it takes the sting out of losing.

Re: Trying to \"Lose\" - home game question
 

I do this with a semi-regular game I play with some friends. I will place in the money 2 or 3 times in a row (usually 1st), then I will do a massive flameout the next session, bluff like a maniac with crap and get caught (of course, since they will call you down with anything to "keep you honest"), that sort of thing... when I first started playing, I played solid ABC poker, but after a couple of session there started to be some grumbling from the rest of the table. I like playing with them, we are all friends, so it makes sense to me to lose a session here and there intentionally (along with the more rare loss because the cards go super cold on me or getting nailed on bad beats) to give the crazy loose players a chance to win from time to time - gives them hope and reason to keep playing.

It's still a +EV game for me overall, so I can't complain, plus it's a night out of the house.

(Mind you, if this was a game against strangers, I would kill it everytime until they stop inviting me. But that's a different story entirely.)

Re: Trying to \"Lose\" - home game question
 

As someone who's struggling really hard to improve my game and climb out of the low limits online, and playing some tough live games with some really competitive friends, these kind of posts really get to me - what kind of poker player thinks he's so great he's got to be a martyr and try and lose for the good of the game? If you're so good then take them for every cent they own and enjoy it - you earned it! Play with good grace and it's not your problem if they get miffed at losing. You might not find it so easy though - when I play with my girlfriend and her mum for fun (and I never soft-play them!) I can do everything 'right' and still lose to someone who'll play every hand, only to stop halfway through and ask if you can make a straight from Queen to Three, via the Ace ...

Re: Trying to \"Lose\" - home game question
 

That's me right there. At my home games, I drink like a damn fish.

WiteKnite

Re: Trying to \"Lose\" - home game question
 

First of all, at least in my case, I never said or implied that I was great, rather, I said that the opposition was very poor. Second, and probably more importantly, I think maintaining friendships is more important than a few extra bucks a week. That weekly game is merely a social occasion. Don't get me wrong, I still make sure I make money at it, but I'm not going to beat it for all its worth because there's plenty of other fish out there to make money from (namely not my friends).

Re: Trying to \"Lose\" - home game question
 

work on any part of your game that may need some attention. Play solid, but don't give your chips away.

Losing once in awhile may not be a bad thing.

Re: Trying to \"Lose\" - home game question
 

[ QUOTE ]
As someone who's struggling really hard to improve my game and climb out of the low limits online, and playing some tough live games with some really competitive friends, these kind of posts really get to me - what kind of poker player thinks he's so great he's got to be a martyr and try and lose for the good of the game? If you're so good then take them for every cent they own and enjoy it - you earned it! Play with good grace and it's not your problem if they get miffed at losing. You might not find it so easy though - when I play with my girlfriend and her mum for fun (and I never soft-play them!) I can do everything 'right' and still lose to someone who'll play every hand, only to stop halfway through and ask if you can make a straight from Queen to Three, via the Ace ...

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think the original poster meant that he was the next Doyle Brunson, just that the other players are weak. As to beating the game and "taking them for every cent" I'll quote Amarillo Slim on you, "You can shear a sheep many times, you can only skin it once".

Re: Trying to \"Lose\" - home game question
 

[ QUOTE ]

(Mind you, if this was a game against strangers, I would kill it everytime until they stop inviting me. But that's a different story entirely.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is the key. Against strangers, or even if there were to be a regular 2+2 game I wouldn't care how often I won. Althought I doubt I'd win often in a regular 2+2 game.

My friendship with them is worth more than the extra CD I could buy at Target each week.

I am not a big drinker, and almost never drink when I play, but maybe I'll give that a shot, a little more fun with my poker.

Re: Trying to \"Lose\" - home game question
 

I suppose it's fair enough you don't want to lose any friends, but if they're really your friends you can be honest with them and be open about everyone's respective ability. I'd be a lot worse player if I didn't have the benefit of some blunt criticism from some of my friends who are better than me. Obviously no one likes being told how they should or shouldn't have played a particular hand, but if you're the best player, give advice and reading recommendations if you're asked for it. Friends might appreciate that and respect you more than if you turn up at their game and don't take it seriously.

And I know that no one's claiming to be the greatest player ever - I just don't think that soft-playing is anything those aspiring to be great players should be doing.

Re: Trying to \"Lose\" - home game question
 

The two tournaments you came in first and second, you averaged a $35 profit. If you lose some on purpose, you will average even less. If you want to socialize, that is fine. However, if you are good enough to crush this, you could probably do better playing in a cardroom or online.

Re: Trying to \"Lose\" - home game question
 

Like I stated - my reason for dumping was that i didn't feel like sitting through the second tournament last night, I was more tired than I though. I also didn't want to "win and ditch" on just my second week.

to your other point, I do play online, and tend to do quite well there. I enjoy the "second income" I get from poker, but by no means support myself by it.

Re: Trying to \"Lose\" - home game question
 

[ QUOTE ]
As someone who's struggling really hard to improve my game and climb out of the low limits online, and playing some tough live games with some really competitive friends, these kind of posts really get to me - what kind of poker player thinks he's so great he's got to be a martyr and try and lose for the good of the game?

[/ QUOTE ]

To respond - I don't consider myself a great poker player, but I do well at the low limits both online and B&M. I consider these "poker nights" to be a social occassion, as everybody else does at the game... we are all laughing, telling stories, and having a good time. I do give pointers as we play for really eggregious play, but none of these guys have any illusions of playing poker anywhere else. We are all there for fun - it isn't a "serious" game, and nobody wants it to be. If I kill the game 75-80% of the sessions, then the games will die off, as nobody wants to lose everytime.

The only guy I know at the table who is taking it to the next step and playing online I've taken aside and I am helping him... pointing out when he plays hands poorly during our sessions, for example (away from the table). It is one thing to take money from friends overall playing a friendly game, another thing to let one of them blow money playing "for real" online.

Re: Trying to \"Lose\" - home game question
 

It depends on why you want to play against them.

If the EV is worth losing some casual acquaintences over, then play your best each game until they say 'bah'

If they are reasonably intelligent, you could pretty much tell them that you're the best player in the room and make it worth their while by helping them improve their game and discussing some plays with them.
This will lower your EV a bit, but you'll still be welcome at the game, you'll still be the best player and you'll be giving them some value for money.

It all depends on if you can pull this off without coming across as an A-hole.
(It's an ability some have, and some don't)

Lori

Re: Trying to \"Lose\" - home game question
 

I wouldn't throw anything. Hell, I'd trap my Grandmother and bust her.

Here's what you can expect as an unexpected consequence of your solid play: No players in your raised pots. While this is nice for stealing blinds, there are few things more frustrating when you don't get action on your trips, or everyone folds to your preflop raise with AA.

I've been in a live rebuy the last four months. The first time, 18 players, I finished 9th. The second, 16, I finished 3rd. The third, 26 players, I won. The fourth, 29 players I finished 4th. These guys are scared to play a pot with me, because I almost always are ahead of them when they do.

But don't throw one. Do your friends a favor by taking their money, so they improve their play.

Re: Trying to \"Lose\" - home game question
 

I don't think that is really needed. I too play a home game where I am clearly "better" than my friends, and win more than my fair share. There was some mumbling intitially(I was even accused of cheating), but after a loss or two things were fine. I didn't lose because I was worried about not being invited back but rather because that's the way it goes sometimes. Just like you don't win every online game(even when you are the better player) ,you won't win every game against them. With such a small sample, I really don't see why you think you will win all of the time or even most of the time. By that I mean the worst player there could win 3 out of 4(unlikely but not impossible), poker is not strictly a game of skill you also need some good luck. I would just keep playing my game, if you win say 9 out of the next 10 than you might want to throw one.

Re: Trying to \"Lose\" - home game question
 

Myself, my SO and about four of my friends have killed my micro-limit home game. No one in town want's to play with us anymore, so it's just some combination of the six of us raising blinds on Wed night lately. That being said, I'm not too worried about it because that micro-limit game wasn't to make money, it was to introduce my friends to poker. So about 6 of us cleaned about 12 ppls clocks and now those other people never come back. I need some more players.