It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

Most of my personal friends are flaming liberals, but they don't gamble. The few Conservatives I know do gamble. What gives on this forum?

Maybe the flaming libs just have bigger mouths and the Conservatives are the silent, sentient, majority eh?

Or maybe there are just lots of "college-age-liberals-that-have-no-clue-but-think-they-do" on this forum.

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

or maybe most of the people who post on here are liberal, thats my guess.

BTW, I really think there are more independents and libertariens on here than anything else.

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

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Most of my personal friends are flaming liberals, but they don't gamble. The few Conservatives I know do gamble. What gives on this forum?

Maybe the flaming libs just have bigger mouths and the Conservatives are the silent, sentient, majority eh?

Or maybe there are just lots of "college-age-liberals-that-have-no-clue-but-think-they-do" on this forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

I voted for Bush last time but I just think he made too many mistakes to still be president. If you want to label me for that, go right ahead, it's not going to change my vote.

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

Most of the recent threads and discussion here has been about the Bush administration and the upcoming election. So, I assume you are basing your assumption that most people here are liberal on the many posts which criticize the current administration or support John Kerry. The major flaw in this is that the ideology possessed by the Bush admninistration is so far to the right that many normally conservative Republican voting citizens can not continue to support them. This, along with huge, glaring mistakes by the administration and outright deception has galvonized formerly apolitical people (like myself) into support of John Kerry.

The fact is, simply supporting Kerry does not make someone liberal.

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

Well-thought, educated post buddy. I agree with the above poster that i am more for not bush than for kerry. It involves weighing out the pros vs. the cons. The basis of your arguement is based on bipartism and is simply trying to generalize something that is really more specific. There are a group of people that fit in to just a far left, however, i don't think those are near the majority of democractic or more left than right posters. A guess to why you find so many so called "liberal" poker players is that if I were to characterize G.W.Bush as a poker player i would consider him to have the following qualities:
-Emotional rather than educated/mathematical in his decisions (ex. imposes his religious views on state decisions)
-Calling station (Ex. Won't "flip-flop" on any decision, even if he finds out that he is playing a losing hand. Isn't being stubborn on the wrong idea just so much better than admitting a wrongdoing?)
-Bad table image (Ex. Pisses off the rest of the world and, similarily, loses his table respect)
-Poor money management (ex. forget about the jobs loss, umm.. deficit?)
-Lack of Disciplin (Ex. Went to Yale after graduating from top middle and high schools, and couldn't go to enough class or do enough work to learn how to speak, read, or logically think. The war in iraq, while i do agree with its purpose, could've waited a bit a longer=No disciplin. Including, also, the lack of personal effort he puts into his job and policies; we can thank god for the republican adminstartion for taking care of that problem or we'd all be screwed)

There is more, but i am tired. I'd, lastly, like to just say that you shouldn't try to discourage the liberals from speaking out because that is what an educating discussion is comprised of. I think people often even challenge the right and present the left opinion just for the sake of debate and knowledge rather than political belief.

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

That's funny. From my perspective it seems like almost everyone who posts on here is conservative.

Especially people like GWB and adios who seem to spend all thier time reading conservative blogs.

I actually think most of the "liberals" on this forum are much older than college age. That includes me.

Then there are the libertarians whom I admire but can't quite suscribe to their ideology.

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

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I agree with the above poster that i am more for not bush than for kerry.

[/ QUOTE ]

You might enjoy this website: http://www.kerryhatersforkerry.com

It's pretty funny.

natedogg

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

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...the ideology possessed by the Bush admninistration is so far to the right that many normally conservative Republican voting citizens can not continue to support them.

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My problem with Bush is that he's too far to the left, not the right. He supported, and claims as a success, the largest expansion of the welfare state since Lyndon Johnson (i.e., the Medicare drug benefit). He wants to further expand the welfare state to Africa, for chrissakes, and send $10 billion of American taxpayer money there to help with AIDS. He spent way too much time kowtowing before the UN before finally invading Iraq. Since and after the invasion, he has put Iraqi civilians and/or Arab public opinion above the lives of our soldiers. (Witness the retreat from Fallujah last spring, to take just one example.) He thinks diplomacy and negotiations are somehow going to prevent the fanatical theocrats running Iran from developing nuclear weapons.

I'm not saying Kerry is any better, and he is certainly further to the left than Bush. But the only way in which Bush is "right wing" is in his religion-inspired statist positions, typically associated with the "religious right," but having nothing to do with a "right" that believes in capitalism and individual rights.

Yet Kerry is so bad, and fighting the Islamist threat against Western civilization is so important, that damn if I might actually vote for Bush.

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

What part of San Diego you live in? Santee? El Cajon?

craig

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I agree with the above poster that i am more for not bush than for kerry.

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You might enjoy this website: http://www.kerryhatersforkerry.com

It's pretty funny.

natedogg

[/ QUOTE ]


you forgot this one: http://www.johnkerryisadouchebagbuti...himanyway.com/

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

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What part of San Diego you live in? Santee? El Cajon?

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I don't know about El Cajon, but if the stereotypes about Santee are true, I'd say the people there are more the "Rah-rah Bush" religious right types, which was hardly the viewpoint of my post.

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

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That's funny. From my perspective it seems like almost everyone who posts on here is conservative.

[/ QUOTE ]Ditto.

And I live in Indiana- so that's saying something.

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

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Maybe the flaming libs just have bigger mouths and the Conservatives are the silent, sentient, majority eh?

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That's doubtful. Most of the opinionated loudmouth political know-it-alls I encounter are conservatives.

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

It seems that there is an increasing trend to label a Bush supporter as a right-wing fanatic or a Kerry supporter as a flaming liberal. These labels have been tossed around over the years, but not anywhere near the frequency that I've seen in this election. The country is indeed polarized at this time.

I'm a registered democrat, but I've voted for many republicans over the years. The first vote that I ever cast for president was for Ronald Reagan in 1984. In the last election, I voted republican for governor and congressman.

I don't think that the labels fit most voters. The majority of them aren't flaming liberals or right-wing fanatics.

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

Actually I spend about 10 minutes a day looking at 2 blogs and not that closely. I challenge much of the anti Bush rhetoric because I think most of it is illogical and not well thought out. I believe there's quite a bit of group think and that most people are easily manipulated by the media and the political parties. Take the most recent thread about job losses in the economy and the Democrats pinning it on Bush as an example. My question was actually quite logical, if Bush is responsible, what policies of Bush led to that? If a political party makes those allegations and people support that party they ought to at least have an idea of whether or not that party's claim is valid and why.

I remember a few discussion about Kerry's military service. The Democratic party spin doctoring on his service is what I objected to and I've pointed out why before.

As far as the Iraq war, most of what I read from the ABB faction here is that Bush lied and we shouldn't be there. That may be true (I think it's more complicated than that actually) but we are there and I have asked Kerry supporters in many different ways about Kerry policies and what the subsequent processes in implenting those policies will be if he inherits the war. I can't think of another poster on this forum who's discussed Kerry's proposals on Iraq more than myself.

In general, I'll admit that I have an axe to grind when it comes to how people view their government. I think people put way too much faith in government's ability to solve economic and social problems. When you guys start telling me how great the welfare state is, to me it's an easy matter to show why it isn't so great.

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

Maybe your sample size of friends/gamblers isn't enough to make the generalization: Liberals don't gamble, conservatives do.

In fact, many conservatives oppose gambling. Most of the South, no casinos. See, there are some advantages to moral relativism! Gamble gamble gamble!!!!

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

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Most of the South, no casinos.

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More per capita than in the North I would think.

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

Conservatives cry about State lotteries! Oh no, gambling! If there are casinos in the South, you can be damn sure they were opposed by Conservatives, not liberals.

(Actually, I agree with them, I think lotteries are a regressive tax)

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

I voted for Bush last time but I just think he made too many mistakes to still be president. If you want to label me for that, go right ahead, it's not going to change my vote.
quote]

Please list the "mistakes" that he has made.

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

When are you on the right finaly going to get your act together and ban the activity this forum is based on.

The irony of your post is that the right is far more intolerant of gambling at least in a judicial sense.

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

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When are you on the right finaly going to get your act together and ban the activity this forum is based on.

The irony of your post is that the right is far more intolerant of gambling at least in a judicial sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

Remember how Kerry compared gambling to terrorism and prostitution?

Here is the full quote from the NYT Magazine:

"We have to get back to the place we were, where terrorists are not the focus of our lives, but they're a nuisance. As a former law-enforcement person, I know we're never going to end prostitution. We're never going to end illegal gambling. But we're going to reduce it, organized crime, to a level where it isn't on the rise. It isn't threatening people's lives every day, and fundamentally, it's something that you continue to fight, but it's not threatening the fabric of your life."

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

Ok if you are so obviously in favour of gambling perhaps you can use some of your political muscle and stop the following:

The Unlawful Internet Gambling Funding Prohibition Act, written by Sen. Jon Kyl (Republican).

Also it is clear to anyone with an understanding of the english language (that precludes you) that Kerry was talking about Mob based gambling which funds organised crime.

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

My point was that gambling cuts across party lines, both parties have pro-gambling and anti-gambling advocates. So picking a party to vote for on the basis of who will do right by you on gambling will not work.

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

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Most of the South, no casinos.

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Tunica???

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

From my response to your post about lack of casinos in the South:

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
Most of the South, no casinos.



More per capita than in the North I would think.

[/ QUOTE ]


To which you responded.

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Conservatives cry about State lotteries! Oh no, gambling! If there are casinos in the South, you can be damn sure they were opposed by Conservatives, not liberals.

(Actually, I agree with them, I think lotteries are a regressive tax)

[/ QUOTE ]

Where are your facts and it states nothing about what posted about which is that there are probably is more casino gambling in the South than in the North. You rail on about the lack of casinos in the South being indicative of something regarding the demographics of the Sourth when you're just plain wrong, there are more casinos in the South. Perhaps we should reach the opposite conclusion from what you stated about the South.

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

Probably I am wrong. I asked the question once if I went back to my parents' home in Virginia for a visit, where could I go play poker. Answer: Atlantic City. Apparently, I confused poker playing casinos with casinos, as you seem confident that there are more casinos than up North, which I never said otherwise, I was thinking California and Vegas (which doesn't seem like a conservative city to me). My bad.

My point is this: It seems to me, many people who identify themselves as Conservatives historically have supported something I will call "traditional values". This includes things like opposition to drinking, pot, sex outside of marriage, and gambling. I anticipate a typical response to my post might be, "you don't understand what the real "conservative" movement stands for, its less government, blah blah. Spare me. I am talking about people who would call themselves conservative, like for example "Christian Conservatives", without which Bush would have probably less than half of his support.

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

I guess you are saying I am wrong, that in most of the South, there are casinos. I probably am wrong. But how does citing one city with three "???" rebut the statement, "MOST of the South, no casinos???"


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Most of the South, no casinos.



Tunica???



[/ QUOTE ]

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

there are tons of riverboat casinos in Louisiana, especially in Shreveport and New Orleans. I also believe there is one in Baton Rouge. you also have several harrah's casinos in Louisiana. I know there is another casino in Marksville, La, and 2 in Lake Charles. There are many others.

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

If you support Bush, there's probably a lot that baffles you.

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

[ QUOTE ]
Probably I am wrong. I asked the question once if I went back to my parents' home in Virginia for a visit, where could I go play poker. Answer: Atlantic City. Apparently, I confused poker playing casinos with casinos, as you seem confident that there are more casinos than up North, which I never said otherwise, I was thinking California and Vegas (which doesn't seem like a conservative city to me). My bad.

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Not a problem, just pointing out that support for your premise is faulty.

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My point is this: It seems to me, many people who identify themselves as Conservatives historically have supported something I will call "traditional values". This includes things like opposition to drinking, pot, sex outside of marriage, and gambling.

[/ QUOTE ]

What you're more or less saying IMO is that many people have "litmus tests" regarding whether or not they fit into a particular ideology. I agree with that point. It's funny I tried a thought experiment of what a litmus test for a Democrat would be and what a litmus test for a Republican would be and I came to the conclusion that there probably isn't one for either. I realize that being a conservative and being a Republican could be two different things. Ditto liberal and Democrat. I think these labels are probably too narrow minded though. I plead guilty to over using them.

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I anticipate a typical response to my post might be, "you don't understand what the real "conservative" movement stands for, its less government, blah blah. Spare me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Aren't you being a little narrow minded here though?

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I am talking about people who would call themselves conservative, like for example "Christian Conservatives", without which Bush would have probably less than half of his support.

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Here's another label [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img], "the Religuous Right." The Republicans have certainly embraced a certain constiuency that are Christian and hold certain beliefs. It's really no different though than the Democrats embracing their core constituencies that hold other values. To paint everyone in the party with the same broad brush is probably too narrow minded IMO although I'm sure I've done it myself. For instance you'll find prominent Republicans that generally support Roe v. Wade and Gay Marriage. You'll find prominent Democrats that support the Iraq war.

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

I am trying to answer the question: are conservative more likely to support gambling than liberals? To answer this, I have to make generalizations. I also have to define who makes up the group "Conservatives". I have included "Christian Conservatives" as conservatives. I think most Christian Conservatives would oppose gambling more often than not, certainly more than the average person. I also think that Christian Conservatives probably make up over half of those people who identify themselves as Conservative. Since such a large percentage of Conservatives are of the "Christian" variety, and since such a large percentage of these Chistians oppose gambling, I have concluded that conservatives are more likely to oppose gambling as compared to liberals since liberals have no large subset (ie. Union member, academia, civil rights activist) I can think of that would oppose gambling.

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For instance you'll find prominent Republicans that generally support Roe v. Wade and Gay Marriage. You'll find prominent Democrats that support the Iraq war.

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Yes. But if I was trying to see whether a liberal or a conservative is more likely to support gay marriage or the war...I would say conservative are more likely to oppose gay marriage. I would say liberals oppose the war more than conservatives. At some level of discourse, this seems to me to be obviously true.

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

Thanks for your thoughts and the interesting dialogue. I'll take my own advice and quit throwing around the word liberal so often.

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

Illegal gambling.

I liked you better before when you weren't reading the papers.

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

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But how does citing one city with three "???" rebut the statement

[/ QUOTE ]

There are more than three, and as far as gaming goes, it's one of the largest gaming cities in the US. Not the mention, southern Mississippi also has several casinos.

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

What the hell are you talking about?

I, in fact, am fairly liberal, but this is my only 2nd post on the politics forum.

You don't have to be a liberal to be anti-Bush. My roomate usually votes Republican. He's voting against Bush (Kerry just happens to be the alternative).

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

Those of us who post a lot are probably on either end of the spectrum. We probably wouldn't get as exercised if we were in the middle.

I think there are probably more conservative posters here than liberal ones. Maybe you just notice us more, since you think we're "flaming."

I have no scientific evidence, but it seems to me that the poker players I have hung out with in cardrooms over the past 25 years are no more conservative or liberal than the general population.

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

It's not that he's too liberal, its that he's just plain soft. Thats the way it is with the whole country now days. America was once a tough, hard-nosed country, but the liberals have certainly put an end to that. The solution to these problems in Fallujah is quite simple: Call up the B-2 bombers and depopulate the city. It may not be "nice" or "right" or "ethical" or whatever but war is a dirty business.

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

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Please list the "mistakes" that he has made.


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That a whole other thread.

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

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Most of my personal friends

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You have friends? This is a shocking claim, but not as mindless as the rest of your post.

Re: It baffles me that so many posters here are so flamingly liberal
 

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You don't have to be a liberal to be anti-Bush.

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True, but if you are not for Bush then Bush supporters label you as a "liberal." The word really has no meaning anymore and most people that use it do so solely for derogatory purposes.