An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

Yo-

Kill the converter for a week or so.

Okay before the bitching starts, hear me out. This forum has some REALLY good players/posters. Unfortunatly I don't get to read the majority of thier responses because the shelf life of a post on the first page is about 15 minutes.

I will go out on a limb and say 95%+ of these posts would not be made if people actually had to type out the hand history themselves.

Less quantity and more quality!

Anybody have any thoughts on the subject?

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

Agreed, it's a problem. I'm a guilty party in Micro, too.

I'm wondering if it might not be a bad idea to encourage people to post their hands within their own personal "hands" thread? I dunno. I'd think that might alleviate the problem a little, but would cause plenty of new ones.

I dunno. Killing the converter might work short term, but when it comes back up it'll just become a problem again. And meanwhile, we'd have to look at all sorts of ugly hand histories.

I'm sure someone more creative can come up with a better solution.

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

I'm sure someone more creative can come up with a better solution.

Okay

No converter ever again

Hows that? [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

I agree 100%. Bison should kill the converter for a week to what happens. Slow it all down.

I post this hand: Big Pot 2nd Pair. on Sunday at 9:30PM by 2AM it was 50+ deep on the 3rd page, I was absolutely amazed.

I was also saddened that this hand didn't generate some discussion. I tried to bump my point a few times but it never caught fire.

Kill it, see what happens.

Peace,
Joe

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

I was also saddened that this hand didn't generate some discussion. I tried to bump my point a few times but it never caught fire

You didnt include Ed Miller's name in the title.

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

No converter ever again

How about killing it for a bit and then passwording it. With the password going out to the discretion of Bison? Then, the players with the quality posts/responses can have access and he/we can govern who has access.

Peace,
Joe Tall

I concur
 

typing out posts is far better anyway. as you type out your hand you think about it more and notice things you missed initally. this is an integral part of hand analysis anyway

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

I remember that hand. I thought you played it well but I think a lot of inexperience posters could learn something from it. I too get upset sometimes when I post something in the afternoon and come back to check it at dinner time and find it 3 pages deep w/1 or 2 responses.

Something does need to be done about the amount of traffic on this forum but unfortunately, I don't think there is any way to control it.

Re: I concur
 

What he /\ said.

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

why dont we just give bison the power to kill the bad poster instead of the converter. jk

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

[ QUOTE ]
How about killing it for a bit and then passwording it. With the password going out to the disgression of Bison? Then, the players with the quality posts/responses can have access and he/we can govern who has access.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't really like the sound of that, because it'll create a heiarchy of posters, where all the big names, carpal tunnels and pooh'bahs will have top priority over everybody while it'll discourage the new or lesser known poseters from posting.

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

Edited due to sudden irrelevancy.

I think controlling who uses it is a bad idea, but I think everyone not using it for a hot second, providing they type CLEAR HH is certainly worthwhile. I'm just afraid it won't necessarily slow things down so much as ugly them up.

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

I don't know guys. And I am not at all a fan of people being able to use it being at my discretion: I get a lot of PMs, and I don't want any more.

This is, yeah, a byproduct of the converter and of the growing 2+2 population and I don't know what else to tell you.

The other problem, of course, is that the converter is used (though I have no idea how much), by forums other than these.

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

How about his discretion?

Edited. Good look out.

Peace,
Joe Tall

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

The other problem, of course, is that the converter is used (though I have no idea how much), by forums other than these.

How is that a problem? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

This forum is going downhill. Period.

I appreciate all the good the converter has done for 2+2 and its posters, but in all honesty I think the bad now outweighs the good.

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

Maybe everyone could change their parent posts per page setting to 30 instead.

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

I appreciate all the good the converter has done for 2+2 and its posters, but in all honesty I think the bad now outweighs the good.

Probably not a surprising position coming from me, but I think you're really overstating the case.

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

Better to have the forum admins increase the default number of displayed threads.

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

I'm just afraid it won't necessarily slow things down so much as ugly them up.

Simple.

This is OUR forum. We can police it. Set quidelines that must be followed when posting a hand (clear descriptions, pot size etc..) and everything should fall into place.

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Probably not a surprising position coming from me, but I think you're really overstating the case.

[/ QUOTE ]

i concur with bison. people are gonna post what they want to post regardless.

and i only started to learn how to use the converter recently... [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

I think only allowing certain posters to use it is a bad idea. Like CDC said, it would create a converter club and possibly exclude a lot of good posters. Also, some hands may be interesting/helpful to one person but not very interesting/helpful to others. People who post here are at many different levels of the game and everyone is trying to learn. Excluding posters from using such a valuable tool would be unfair.

I do agree that it sucks that posts get buried so quickly, but I'm not sure stopping the converter is a good solution. I think the problem comes from so many new members more than it does from the ease of posting by way of converter. I don't think anything can be done about so many new members.

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

People simply need to stop posting trivial hands involving common situations.

I am not a great player. However, I play quite often (Not nearly as often as some people, but still very frequently). I play sessions of a few hours of four tables. Over three hours, I might scribble down three or four (at most!) hand numbers where something didn't seem right. Upon reviewing the hands in PT after the session, I probably realize what the correct play was about 90% of the time. The rest I will post here.

I really don't see why there are so many questions about fairly easy decisions on here. Use the search function if you really don't know what do you when your unimproved AK gets check-raised on a paired board on the turn.

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

i think its unfair to bison to ask him and put all the pressure on him to kill his own creation.

i'm sure bison, though he probably won't admit to it, is pretty proud of his hand converter and how it makes pretty hand histories and how it has eased the eyes of many using this forum. putting the blame on *crappy-ness* of this forum on the hand converter is the wrong approach.

the real problem is the wave of new posters. with 2+2 growing as it is, it'll be impossible to not have 20 posts per hour or whatever. people will post what they want to post. and by not using the converter its just going to make the posts a lot harder to read and ever so more annoying.

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

My opinion is probably worth crap, but could some of you older guys let us know what exactly entails a good post? I realize very straightforward bet-call-call-bet-call-fold hands are not what people are looking for, but beyond that I'm lost. Should I say anything about the hand in the subject, or have a nonsensical one? Should I post my own comments on the hand, or only post the history itself? Answers for these would be helpful, and make new kids like myself and many others a lot less intimidated.

Flame away.

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

[ QUOTE ]
My opinion is probably worth crap, but could some of you older guys let us know what exactly entails a good post? I realize very straightforward bet-call-call-bet-call-fold hands are not what people are looking for, but beyond that I'm lost. Should I say anything about the hand in the subject, or have a nonsensical one? Should I post my own comments on the hand, or only post the history itself? Answers for these would be helpful, and make new kids like myself and many others a lot less intimidated.

[/ QUOTE ]

Posts like unimproved overcard hands (Unimproved overcard hands are tough, but there are about 1,000 of these posts a day. ), bad beat stories in disguise, folded but would've won, hands where there's no other way to play it (like checked to you every round with TPTK and you bet but lose), flopped a monster did I make enough - to name a few.

The topic of the post isn't a big deal (not to me, anyway). I usually just say what the hand was, but some cool kids make up amusing titles.

Posting all the info and your thinking behind your play is the way to go. Sometimes you don't have any reads and that's fine. But by posting your thought process, you can also make sure you're thinking right as well as played the hand right.


As a possible solution to this problem - maybe someone could make a sticky post for the forum and have it be a "Guidline For Posting in the Small Stakes Hold'Em Forum".

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

The converter isn't the issue. We're just flooding responses into the wrong hands, like the weekly "Did I get the most flopped quads/boat/nut flush," the daily, "Should I love up/How hard is 5/10" and others. We can police it ourselves by bumping the interesting posts with the truly marginal situations and hard decisions. Regardless, I'm pretty pleased that so many newbies are coming here. We clearly have the solid advice thing going on.

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

i think its unfair to bison to ask him and put all the pressure on him to kill his own creation.

I asked for one week [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

But I do understand what you are saying. I apologize to Bison if my post seems unfair.

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

i too have been troubled by the volume lately on the forum. However, i dont think the convertor is the root of the problem. I think the fact of the matter is thatwe have several new posters, and those people are also new poker players. So, a lot of the posts that you typically see in the micros forum, we are instead seeing here. I dont think this is a bad thing, just inconvienent.

2+2 is a wonderfull resource that is made even better by the fact that it is a free and open forum, with a minimum of moderation. Part of the price we pay for that freedom is not only the occasional annoyance when sthief lets us know that his pfr is now 67%, but also the responsability to make it better. Not only does this include helping the newer posters out (which i am admittadly terrible about), but also means that we have to go the extra mile looking for those posts that are of more interest, or made by the more experienced posters. I devote a certain segment of each poker session to at least reading the subject line of every new post, and usually read all the posts made by those whose posts i know are likely to be thought provoking (or make fun of someone).

Joe Tall, i guess i was one of the few who did see the mentioned post when it was made. I didnt respond because i didnt feel i had much to add. It seemed a reasonable way to play, and nothing about the thread made me question my initial assessment.

Killing the convertor is likely to cut down on the volume, however i think it would also lower the quality of the posts, and 2+2 in general. since fewer people would be willing to post hand. As someone who used to post about 5 hands a day, or so, i can honestly say without the convertor i would probably not be the highly skilled LAG i am today. This is also why i think making the convertor pw-protected is also bad. The convertor helps those who are just starting out, and usually those newbies are the ones most in need of the convertor. Plus, i dont think i would be one of those allowed to use it. Thats bad.

To sum, i think its probably jsut something we are going to have to live with. Yeah, it sucks finding your post 4 pages back a few hours after you posted it, but its still there. Bump appropriatly.

peace

john nickle

i do however, disapprove of 1800 posts made under the name of rap songs. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I apologize to Bison if my post seems unfair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfair--maybe?
Elitist--definately!

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

My solution to this problem is to create two small stakes forums.

One for 2/4, and one for 3/6 and 5/10. This will allow posts to stay up at the top for longer and solve the traffic problem.

It will also allow people to more easily understand the small differences between 2/4 and 3/6.

What do you guys think?

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

I agree that I don't really like it when the same person floods the micro forum (I can't really speak for much more than micro, though I do read SS) with 8 threads at a time. But I truly believe that a lot of the good posters will go out of their way to respond to the more interesting hands with good advice. I just try to seek those threads and those posters out, so the rest doesn't really bother me.

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

"My solution to this problem is to create two small stakes forums. "

I'v been lurking for a while now and plan to start posting. I think this is a great idea.

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

[ QUOTE ]

My solution to this problem is to create two small stakes forums.

One for 2/4, and one for 3/6 and 5/10. This will allow posts to stay up at the top for longer and solve the traffic problem.

It will also allow people to more easily understand the small differences between 2/4 and 3/6.

What do you guys think?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice.

Bison is burdened enough with his converter and other contributions to the forum. Taking the converter offline will have adverse effects.

I agree that the postings are out there sometimes. I think that if a post has no merit, let's identify it somehow.

Tag it w/ "No Content" or something... the rest of us can ignore... a few weeks or months of this, the other posters will get the idea.

We will have more volume, and I think that's the root of it. With more volume, I think the best solution is different forums.

Split Micro into "Micro" (.25/.5 - 1/2) and "Nano" (<.25/.50)

Split SS into 2 as proposed by Rubeskies.

I wouldn't also object to pushing 2/4 back into micros. It plays more like micros than what SS is about. I'm often suprised at the play here. I think the .5/1 games are tougher than the 2/4 games sometimes.

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

[ QUOTE ]

My solution to this problem is to create two small stakes forums.

One for 2/4, and one for 3/6 and 5/10. This will allow posts to stay up at the top for longer and solve the traffic problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like it. This is obviously because I play 2/4. But I really think that that would not solve much. Some of the best posters play 2/4 for whatever reason, Kurn, Homer (I think), Chesspain (I can't actually remember if chesspain did move back to 2/4).

Whatever though, I don't think the problem is the limits. People post routine 3/6 and 5/10 hands all the time. I don't think your idea tackes the problem at all.

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

why doesnt bison get together with the bot guy and create some AI that will convert the hand and automatically give advice on how to play it correctly on each street.

then the bot can offer advice on posting after analyzing the hand ie. "this hand is whack and uninteresting do not post" or "system overload. bot meltdown. please post for human response."

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

I think this won't be a problem. Everyone will post on both forums. It isn't like it will be segregated. Heck, BisonBison still posts on the micro forums as do a lot of solid posters. The nice thing about the internet is that everything is only one click away.

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

All communities go through stuff like this when they grow. Newcommers start anew on the learning curve and the overall signal/noise ratio decreases.

How about making a couple key community members mods? Would locking trivial posts help clean things up?

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

I think ultimately that this site will have to adopt some sort of slashdot style of moderation, where posts and replies are ranked.

Then you can say, "Show me only posts/replies with a ranking higher than X," and filter the boring stuff.

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

Basically, the 2+2 mods have a choice between either A) taking a more active hand or B) creating more and more subcommunities so that internal policing remains effective. I understand if they're averse to deputizing moderators who aren't employees of 2+2, so I wouldn't be averse to a little more splitting of the limit HE forums:

Micro (up through 1/2)
Small (2/4 - 8/16)
Mid (10/20 - 20-40 or some such)
High (30-60 and up)

That having been said, I'm going to start recommending that all PT posts need to find a different place than in SS and micro. Because they're endless and repetitive and dull dull dull.

edit: Or I guess C) with the slashdot type modding that SomethingClever suggests, but I don't know how much effort/cost that is to establish/maintain.

Re: An idea (ATTN: Bison)
 

[ QUOTE ]
That having been said, I'm going to start recommending that all PT posts need to find a different place than in SS and micro. Because they're endless and repetitive and dull dull dull.

[/ QUOTE ]
We could call it the "Ask Sample Size Man Forum". [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]