Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

I don't use a handbook to decide whether what I do is right, wrong, or neutral.

I don't subscribe to any religion.
Does this mean I deserve to be tortured eternally?


Today my roommate left a large container of chocolate covered raisins open on his desk. I am reasonably sure if I asked him for some he would happily share, but he isn't around to ask. So far I have eaten four.
Do crimes like this deserve eternal torture?

A while back I had sex with this girl, who I knew had a boyfriend. I didn't know the guy, and I figured it wasn't that big a deal. Eventually this guy found out, and they broke up.

One morning he was found on some rocks below the balcony of his fourth story apartment. The doctors pulled the plug on him about 24 hours later and his organs were donated to people in need.

Shortly after, a detective grilled me about where I was the night before he was found. I was with some friends that night otherwise I might have had to hire a lawyer. Anyway the cops and coroner eventually ruled that he had jumped, although the girl in this story doesn't believe he did, I am fairly sure that it was a suicide.
Does this mean I am going to hell?

Does any finite crime 'deserve' infinite punishment? Does God go by the golden rule? Can a morally perfect being dole out punishment so out of proportion to the crime?
Can you get away with anything as long as you acknowlede Jesus as your savior before you die?

Thoughts?

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

When Jesus died on the cross, he forgave all your sins. All you have to do is admit you're a sinner and accept this free forgiveness. Thats it. Seriously. You don't have to stop playing poker or stop eating your friends food or even stop having sex with a girl you know has a boyfriend.
It's not my place to judge where you will spend your eternity. God will do that.

*good deal, huh?

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

You first need to define "Hell" and only once you have labeled and limited the idea to something that can be udnerstood by all can we offer our opinions on your state once you are there (provided that is where you end up).

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

I don't know about what hell he is talking about.
The hell in the Bible is defined as "eternal seperation from God". No fire or brimstone(not that it isn't possible), just eternal seperation from God.
That is what the Bible describes hell as.
Heaven is described as a place with no hunger, no problems, no sin. Basically, you GET to be in the presence of God all the time(not really "time" though).

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

[ QUOTE ]
When Jesus died on the cross, he forgave all your sins. All you have to do is admit you're a sinner and accept this free forgiveness. Thats it. Seriously. You don't have to stop playing poker or stop eating your friends food or even stop having sex with a girl you know has a boyfriend.
It's not my place to judge where you will spend your eternity. God will do that.

[/ QUOTE ]

This just makes me want to vomit.

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

Then maybe it's lucky for you that God doesn't force you to believe in Him. It's your choice.

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

When Jesus died on the cross, he forgave all your sins. All you have to do is admit you're a sinner and accept this free forgiveness. Thats it. Seriously. You don't have to stop playing poker or stop eating your friends food or even stop having sex with a girl you know has a boyfriend.
It's not my place to judge where you will spend your eternity. God will do that.

*good deal, huh?

It sure is a good deal. And that is why those who say that nonbeleivers feel the way they do, not because of intellectual skepticism, but rather because they don't want to answer to a higher authority, couldn't, for the most part be more wrong. It would make life a lot easier if you could be forgiven all your sins from simply stating a belief then lets say by spending years doing good to make up for those sins.

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

When Jesus died on the cross, he forgave all your sins. All you have to do is admit you're a sinner and accept this free forgiveness. Thats it. Seriously. You don't have to stop playing poker or stop eating your friends food or even stop having sex with a girl you know has a boyfriend.
It's not my place to judge where you will spend your eternity. God will do that.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This just makes me want to vomit.





Then maybe it's lucky for you that God doesn't force you to believe in Him. It's your choice.

But felson, don't you at least see, why this SHOULD make someone want to vomit. Even if you believe it is true.

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

[ QUOTE ]
When Jesus died on the cross, he forgave all your sins. All you have to do is admit you're a sinner and accept this free forgiveness. Thats it. Seriously. You don't have to stop playing poker or stop eating your friends food or even stop having sex with a girl you know has a boyfriend.
It's not my place to judge where you will spend your eternity. God will do that.

*good deal, huh?

[/ QUOTE ]

Wait, you mean this wasn't written in jest!?

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

[ QUOTE ]
And that is why those who say that nonbeleivers feel the way they do, not because of intellectual skepticism, but rather because they don't want to answer to a higher authority, couldn't, for the most part be more wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. Those who try to figure out why a person would choose not to(or choose to) believe in Jesus are wrong. I don't care why others choose not to believe in Christ.



[ QUOTE ]
It would make life a lot easier if you could be forgiven all your sins from simply stating a belief then lets say by spending years doing good to make up for those sins.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know how familiar you are with the Bible, but it *definatly* does not teach that you get to heaven through works or "years doing good to make up for those sins". The Bible teaches that no matter how good a person somebody is, you cannot EARN your way to heaven(or favor with God). Thankfully, you don't have to have "x" amount of good deeds before you're allowed into heaven. You just have to accept the forgiveness that God is offered you when he send JC.
(obscure Bible outline)
1. admit you are a sinner
2. accept the forgiveness that you are being offered
3. have faith that God will do what he said

It is a lot easier than most make it out to be, you're right.

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

Felson, no offense, I am just wondering what a Christian could possibly be doing on a gambling site? It would be understandable, I suppose, if you had just sought this site out of the many evil places on the internet, to spread the word to degenerate gamblers; however, you are one of us, judging by many of your previous posts. So, what gives? It's that easy? I just live a life of complete and utter sin and two minutes before I die I just ask for forgiveness and it is granted? COOL!!!! [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Bug

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

I challenge you to do numbers 1,2, and 3.
What do you have to lose?(and I'm not talking about Pascal's Wager or whatever)
I'm not saying change your life. I'm not saying become a priest and move to the Vatican.
Just say a couple of words.

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

why would i want to play cards with an all-seeing opponent?

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I just live a life of complete and utter sin and two minutes before I die I just ask for forgiveness and it is granted? COOL!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

according to the Bible the answer is YES!!
When Christ died on the cross one of the other men who was hanging there(he was a sinful man) said to JC that he believed he really was the Son of God. JC said something to the effect of, "surely this day you will spend eternity with me in paradise(heaven)".
So yes it really is that easy.
But why wait until 2 min before you're about to die? why not do it now so that you don't have to worry about it?

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

I have had doubts as to whether it was or wasn't okay to play poker for a living and post at a place that talks about gambling. I've spent time in prayer and I am certain this is where God wants me to be at this point in my life.

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

[ QUOTE ]
"surely this day you will spend eternity with me in paradise(heaven)"

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd interpret this line as Jesus, being a sado-masochist, is considering being nailed to a couple of planks "paradise", and is sharing said paradise with other crucifee (this isn't a word).

Just goes to show how different paradigms can interpret the same thing so differently.

Regards,
Pete Harris

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

Are you serious? God wants you to play against dengenerate gamblers and take their mortgage money? Kids college fund? Next weeks grocery money? I would be interested in knowing why god would want you to make other peoples life miserable, not that you don't do it in a million other ways everyday anyways, but do you seriously beleive that this is gods calling for you or is your beleif what allows you to sleep at night knowing that some poor schmuck is out a bundle because of you?

Your beleif in god allows you to live the "sinful" life you lead. It gives you a higher being to explain everything and absolve you of your guilt, wrong doings, etc. etc.

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Felson, no offense, I am just wondering what a Christian could possibly be doing on a gambling site?

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL, no offense taken. I'm mostly on these boards because I like poker, even though lately it sure doesn't seem that way. I don't think poker is necessarily sinful, although the potential for abuse is certainly there. In my case I don't see a contradiction between my being a Christian and gambling. Your mileage may vary.

About a month ago, another poster (goldcowboy I think) started a thread about the ethics of Christians and gambling. Believe it or not, that single thread is what generated all the ruckus you see today.

EDIT: It is possible that I am rationalizing a little here, although I don't think so (at least very much). Fortunately I know that God accepts me despite my flaws and sins (which is no excuse for me to persist with them).

Also, the second sentence of my post should read "... even though lately it seems like I am here more to talk about God than about poker" to make my meaning more clear.

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

"But felson, don't you at least see, why this SHOULD make someone want to vomit. Even if you believe it is true."

I am pretty sure I have an idea why it MIGHT make people want to vomit. I don't believe that it SHOULD.

But David, I have guessed wrong about your state of mind before. Before I try to respond to an imaginary argument, why don't you spell it out for me?

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

Religion made simple:
Open an old book, 'hey it's all spelled out for me!'
Just like the whackjobs that open that K book wherein they find they can kill innocents with impunity. 'hey it's all spelled out.'

Religion done diligently:
1. Ask God everyday what to do with the life you are given.
2. Don't give up until you get a satisfactory answer.
3. Be prepared to draw new conclusions if you don't get answers.

You don't need a book with this methodology.
BTW, I don't rule out a successful step two.
Lastly, hard work usually yields good results.
/M

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

[ QUOTE ]
But David, I have guessed wrong about your state of mind before. Before I try to respond to an imaginary argument, why don't you spell it out for me?

[/ QUOTE ]


If you don't understand why
When Jesus died on the cross, he forgave all your sins. All you have to do is admit you're a sinner and accept this free forgiveness. Thats it. Seriously. You don't have to stop playing poker or stop eating your friends food or even stop having sex with a girl you know has a boyfriend.
It's not my place to judge where you will spend your eternity. God will do that.

*good deal, huh?

is vomit inducing you are either delusional or dense.

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Are you serious? God wants you to play against dengenerate gamblers and take their mortgage money? Kids college fund? Next weeks grocery money?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't feel that way about any of the things you mentioned. Do you? Do you feel bad when you win a pot against somebody? You just caused his wife to leave him you know.

[ QUOTE ]
I would be interested in knowing why god would want you to make other peoples life miserable, not that you don't do it in a million other ways everyday anyways, but do you seriously beleive that this is gods calling for you or is your beleif what allows you to sleep at night knowing that some poor schmuck is out a bundle because of you?


[/ QUOTE ]

first off I don't think I'm making other peoples lives miserable. I know that God has called me to do this for a living. Everything in my life fell into place once I decided to put God first in my life. I prayed over what I should do.
My wife and I both worked(we had to in order to make ends meet). My mother would watch my two boys while we worked. Suddenly my parents moved out of town and I lost my job(in the same week). So now I can't even afford to pay my bills and feed my family. I'd been playing poker for a while and making pretty good money at it. The Lord told me to keep playing and not worry about the bills. So I did. Things just fall into place when you put God first.

[ QUOTE ]
Your beleif in god allows you to live the "sinful" life you lead. It gives you a higher being to explain everything and absolve you of your guilt, wrong doings, etc. etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do lead a sinful life. So does everyone who walks the earth. None of us are without sin. Jesus offered forgiveness when he died on the cross for all of our sins. So I accept this forgiveness. He does absolve me of my guilt and shame.
I try my best to follow the example JC set for me. I stumble and fall, but I get up and try to do better next time. I try my absolute best not to be sinful.
Well, thats my life. Even though you didn't ask for all that, sorry.

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

[ QUOTE ]
But why wait until 2 min before you're about to die? why not do it now so that you don't have to worry about it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you serious? That makes no sense at all. Why would I stop living a life of selfishness, hedonism etc now when I can just do it 1 moment before my death and get the same benefits of a person who's led a life of sacrifice, selflessness etc all along?

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But why wait until 2 min before you're about to die? why not do it now so that you don't have to worry about it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you serious? That makes no sense at all. Why would I stop living a life of selfishness, hedonism etc now when I can just do it 1 moment before my death and get the same benefits of a person who's led a life of sacrifice, selflessness etc all along?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am serious. You need to read a little closer. I didn't say(or does the Bible) that you have to stop living the way you are right now.
I would still choose the life of sacrifice and selflessness, even if the end result was the same. I'm not the only one either. If I was, how could you explain all the people who are selfless yet don't believe in God at all?

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

I don't understand why you want to state such an insulting opinion. I have tried to keep these threads fairly civilized. And so, even if I believed the same about you, I would not say so. To each his own, I guess.

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

*as a side note-
I'm sure that some of you will stop taking me seriously as a poster because of my views on life/God. I think that is really pathetic. So because I believe in the Bible, does that mean when I say to raise or fold I shouldn't be taken seriously? I guess time will tell. I still respect those who insult me and try to give me grief over my beliefs. I use this board primarily for poker even though most of my posts as of late have been about God(similiar to what felson said). Time will tell...

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am serious. You need to read a little closer. I didn't say(or does the Bible) that you have to stop living the way you are right now.

[/ QUOTE ]

You asked why wait until the last moment of your life to ask for forgiveness, implying that one should do so now.

[ QUOTE ]
If I was, how could you explain all the people who are selfless yet don't believe in God at all?


[/ QUOTE ]

These are people who have morals based on ethics. There is a rationality behind thier morals. The rationality behind your choice to live a life of selflessness is to what, please god? To emulate Christ? These are irrational.

edit - let's not start that argument.

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand why you want to state such an insulting opinion. I have tried to keep these threads fairly civilized

[/ QUOTE ]

Honesty is more civilized than sycophancy.

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

You are in error if you believe that sycophancy and honesty are the only two alternatives.

Did you see that? I was polite. And I told you that you were wrong, without being insulting.

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

The first paragraph of my previous post was poorly phrased. I am sorry. Please let me rephrase it as:

"You are in error if you believe that being polite requires you to be a sycophant or dishonest."

I stand by the second paragraph of that post.

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

Player A lives a life of x and waits until 2 minutes until his life is over(which he may not know when the 2 minutes is approaching).
Player B lives the same live of x but decides to accept the forgiveness early in his life.
They both live the same exact life. Both result in going to heaven.
So why is A better than B again?

*If anybody has any questions about anything at all, feel free to PM me. I completely understand if you are a little timid to ask a question in front of all the posters who you've been talking to. I will keep your identity confidential. Please PM me if while you read this you feel the need to talk to someone about your faith.

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

I'd like to know. Go ahead and post it here or PM me if you prefer.

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

But felson, don't you at least see, why this SHOULD make someone want to vomit. Even if you believe it is true.

Just because it makes you want to vomit, doesn't mean it isn't true.

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

Damn, errrrr, I mean DANG! This is getting heavy, dudes.

Bug

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

You have a sensitive gag reflex, David, but I think I understand what triggered it. You realize, of course, that believers who misrepresent Christian doctrine are analogous to terrible poker players who bring a dogeared copy of The Theory of Poker to the table? I choose to judge your peerless work on its own merits. I'd hope you'd extend the same courtesy to that other Book which also happens to be pretty good.

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You realize, of course, that believers who misrepresent Christian doctrine are analogous to terrible poker players who bring a dogeared copy of The Theory of Poker to the table?

[/ QUOTE ]

not trying to accuse you of anything, but are you saying I am misrepresenting the Christian doctrine? I can assure you that I am not. I guess there are different denomonations but the basics are still there.
If your statement is, in fact true(about DS thinking I'm misrepresenting) then I would argue that I probably know more about the Bible than DS.
If you're not saying any of this, then I don't understand your post at all.

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

"The Bible teaches that no matter how good a person somebody is, you cannot EARN your way to heaven(or favor with God). Thankfully, you don't have to have "x" amount of good deeds before you're allowed into heaven. You just have to accept the forgiveness that God is offered you when he send JC."

So good deeds are not rewarded? Can I assume from that that bad deeds are also not punished? Are you saying that I can be Adolph Hitler or Osama Bin Laden and if I 1) accept that I have sinned; 2) accept God's forgiveness for my sins; and 3) have faith that God is a man of his word, that I will be allowed into heaven? And that Mohandas Ghandi is burning in hell for eternity?

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

[ QUOTE ]
So good deeds are not rewarded? Can I assume from that that bad deeds are also not punished? Are you saying that I can be Adolph Hitler or Osama Bin Laden and if I 1) accept that I have sinned; 2) accept God's forgiveness for my sins; and 3) have faith that God is a man of his word, that I will be allowed into heaven? And that Mohandas Ghandi is burning in hell for eternity?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well duh! Can you see why? Oh that's right... your puny mortal mind cannot comprehend God's "mysterious" ways.

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

[ QUOTE ]
So good deeds are not rewarded?

[/ QUOTE ]

no. I'm saying that the Bible doesn't say you get "two eternity's in heaven" if you do x amount of good deeds. That's up to God. I don't know his reward system for those who are extra good.

[ QUOTE ]
Can I assume from that that bad deeds are also not punished?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know how God punishes those who do bad deeds and then accept his forgiveness. Jesus accepted the guilt and shame for all of the sin of mankind while on the cross. I can't answer your question very well though.

[ QUOTE ]
Are you saying that I can be Adolph Hitler or Osama Bin Laden and if I 1) accept that I have sinned; 2) accept God's forgiveness for my sins; and 3) have faith that God is a man of his word, that I will be allowed into heaven?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying that, the Bible is. The Bible says yes. Anybody who confesses to be a sinner, accepts God's forgiveness, and puts his faith in God, no matter how wicked and sinful that person has been in the past, will be in heaven".
That's what the Bible says.

[ QUOTE ]
And that Mohandas Ghandi is burning in hell for eternity?

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't say if he is or isn't. It's hard to understand how God judges those who have absolutly zero knowledge of Jesus Christ. The Bible says that God is the ultimate judge and he is just. Instead of saying Mohandas Ghandi, lets say BillyBob. BB lives in the year 2004. BillyBob is a great man, he donates tons of money to charity. He feeds the hungry around the world. He sacrifices his life to being a servent to others. He decides to live a life of poverty and gives up all his net worth away. BillyBob refuses to believe that he is a sinner. I'm scared for BillyBob. But God is the final judge. Not me.

*the only reason I used a different example(instead of MG) is because I don't know if he ever knew of the existence of Christ and that kinda complicates things. BB knows about Christ and chooses to deny him.

Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
 

Well, if God were Donald Trump he would look you square in the eye
and exclaim:
"You're fired!"
/M
Oh wait ... God is Donald Trump