Flopped full house
 

Typical .25/.50 UB, fairly tight, lots of players will fold to one bet without a piece of the board.

Ultimate Bet 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Ad, Jh.
<font color="666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, CO calls, Button calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, BB checks,

Flop: (6.40 SB) Jc, As, Jd <font color="blue">(6 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Turn: (3.20 BB) 3h <font color="blue">(6 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, <font color="CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Hero calls, CO folds, Button calls, BB folds, UTG+2 folds.

River: (6.20 BB) 9h <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 12.20 BB

Comments? Very slow, I realize that. I wasn't sure if I'd lose everyone on the flop if I bet out.

Re: Flopped full house
 

I agree with checking the flop, but I'd raise the turn. It's not a very good card for you (anything but a heart would be better), but you want to get people calling before all the cards are out. If he re-raises you (unlikely), I think it's fine to call him and then raise again on the river.

Re: Flopped full house
 

A-
Raise preflop

Bet the flop

Re: Flopped full house
 

[ QUOTE ]
A-
Raise preflop


[/ QUOTE ]

Missed that the first time -- absolutely.

Re: Flopped full house
 

Agreed on raising the preflop; apparently I'm not overly used to multi-tabling yet and tend to miss things [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. Anyway, I didn't raise on the turn because with 4 people behind me to act I didn't want them all folding to 2 bets.

Re: Flopped full house
 

I agree with checking the flop

Noooooooooooo!!!!

You make money in poker by causing your opponents to make mistakes, which you cant do by not betting.

Hero may have lost more money on this hand than anyone else

Re: Flopped full house
 

They called the river -- what makes you think they won't call the turn?

Re: Flopped full house
 

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with checking the flop

Noooooooooooo!!!!

You make money in poker by causing your opponents to make mistakes, which you cant do by not betting.

Hero may have lost more money on this hand than anyone else

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe this is why I'm not making very much $$ with full houses. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Flopped full house
 

Maybe this is why I'm not making very much $$ with full houses

I wish I had enough to even draw a conclusion.

I see a lot of preflop discussion (yes it does matter) going on in the micros and all these stats being thrown around, goals being talked about etc.

Then I see all these devious plays being made against TERRIBLE opponents. Guys, they suck. Bet your hands. They will call.

I promise [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Flopped full house
 

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't raise on the turn because with 4 people behind me to act I didn't want them all folding to 2 bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

I used to worry a lot about this, but I've been happier now that I don't think about it as much. Chances are that the 2 players who called the turn would have called a raise on the turn and a single bet on the river, giving the exact same result. The difference is that one of them may catch something they like on the river (flush, lower FH, etc.) and let you cap. Also, the other jack could already be out there and slowplaying along with you. You should see if he'll let you cap and how long the other guy will be along for the ride with you. Basically, in my experience, I don't see any ace folding here to a raise, so pop it on the turn. Betting the flop is good, too.

Re: Flopped full house
 

Here's the way I see it (which is probably wrong [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img])

If I had bet out on the flop, I would have gotten at most a couple of callers (typical UB). Now, going into the turn, I'm down 2 SB the way I played it (assuming two people did, in fact, call the flop). Of course, now I'm seen as the aggressor, so I doubt MP1 would bet on the turn, meaning at best, I get MP1 and the Button to call my bet. This means I'm still 2 SB down compared to betting out on the flop. On the river, I'll get to bet out again and they'll both call. That means, betting out on the flop looked to get me 2 SB + 2 BB + 2 BB = 5 BB. With the way I played it, it looks like I did better than that because I got 0 SB + 2 BB + 4 BB = 6 BB.

Now, let's say we check the flop and raise on the turn. *IF* I get someone behind me to call 2 bets cold (which, I admit is likely, since the Button did so on the river), then I grab 4 BB on the turn and 2 more BB on the river (assuming MP1 wouldn't bet out again) which gives me 6 BB again, the same as the way I played it.

Re: Flopped full house
 

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe this is why I'm not making very much $$ with full houses

I wish I had enough to even draw a conclusion.

I see a lot of preflop discussion (yes it does matter) going on in the micros and all these stats being thrown around, goals being talked about etc.

Then I see all these devious plays being made against TERRIBLE opponents. Guys, they suck. Bet your hands. They will call.

I promise [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it was my time at PS .25/.50 that might have ruined me. Taking down pots on the flop (and even pre-flop) really weakened up my play. Now that I'm at PP, I think I need to ratchet it back up again (I don't know about UB).

I looked at the times I've flopped quads, boats and nut flushes and saw that I've nearly always check/called. Sounds like I need to ram and jam a lot more on flopped monsters.

BTW, the tongue-in-cheek comment was based on the fact that I make more money (and win more) with flushes and straights than with boats. However, I think it's likely due to the fact that you just get less of them...

Re: Flopped full house
 

Raise preflop. After that, bet/raise/bet/raise/bet/raise/bet/raise. Something like that.

Not extracting value is just as bad as calling too much. There's no freakin' need to be deceptive at .25/.5, and, here's the real head-spinner, playing the flopped second nuts fast is going to be pretty deceptive for these clowns.

Re: Flopped full house
 

[ QUOTE ]
They called the river -- what makes you think they won't call the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

When the turn action is to you, it's difficult to know they're going to call a raise because they called the river already. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Flopped full house
 

Not extracting value is just as bad as calling too much. There's no freakin' need to be deceptive at .25/.5, and, here's the real head-spinner, playing the flopped second nuts fast is going to be pretty deceptive for these clowns.

See, I try to be nice. You are lucky you didnt get the short lived "WTF BTF" phrase [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: Flopped full house
 

[ QUOTE ]
You are lucky you didnt get the short lived "WTF BTF" phrase

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, I forgot about that. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Looks like it needs to make a comeback.

Micros, check out this hand from SS. Jason's response is perfect. Worry about trapping when you're playing smart, aggressive players like Clark and GoT, not these guys. Their forte is calling. Let 'em do it.

Re: Flopped full house
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They called the river -- what makes you think they won't call the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

When the turn action is to you, it's difficult to know they're going to call a raise because they called the river already. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this the same sfer that just talked about how you need to bet/raise because these clowns will keep calling?

Re: Flopped full house
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They called the river -- what makes you think they won't call the turn?

[/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ]
When the turn action is to you, it's difficult to know they're going to call a raise because they called the river already.

[/ QUOTE ] Is this the same sfer that just talked about how you need to bet/raise because these clowns will keep calling?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup, and I stand by that. I don't, however, have the option of determining my action on the turn after seeing their action on the river.