PF raise with QJs?
 

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $3.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero (poster) raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, UTG calls, UTG+2 folds, MP2 calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Flop: (16 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, UTG calls, MP2 folds, Hero calls, SB calls.

Turn: (14.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, BB folds, UTG calls, Hero calls.

River: (20.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG caps</font>, Hero calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 32.50 BB

Should I be raising this hand PF after I post in the CO?

Also, any flames on the way the hand was played, seemed like I had odds to be calling on all streets (be it implied or immediate).

Re: PF raise with QJs?
 

I should add that the blinds were loose passives as were the limpers, and that button was a TAG.

Although if table was different, should I still raise this PF for some sort of equity edge? I was never quite clear about raising PF in multiway pots with certain hands (like j10s, mid pockets, etc.)

Re: PF raise with QJs?
 

Nicely played.

Re: PF raise with QJs?
 

Nice catch on the river. This hand sucks on all streets.

Re: PF raise with QJs?
 

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This hand sucks on all streets.

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If by sucks you mean played well, then I agree.

Re: PF raise with QJs?
 

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If by sucks you mean played well, then I agree.

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Actually, the river was just fine.

Re: PF raise with QJs?
 

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If by sucks you mean played well, then I agree.

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Actually, the river was just fine.

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Ok then, what's wrong with the rest of the hand? I certainly can't see it.

Re: PF raise with QJs?
 

I think the raise PF is ok with 3 limpers. Big pots are nice to drag when you hit with suited paint.

And the hand is played alright. doesnt get much better on the river. Do you fold if you dont pick up the double gut shot on the turn tho?

Nice hand, better river, even better pot.

Re: PF raise with QJs?
 

Sorry, I messed up. I just woke up.

1. I didn't notice that Hero posted in the CO.

2. I thought that he called those bets COLD (which would be kind of questionable) on both the flop and the turn. But he didn't, obviously.

Again, I'm sorry. I should've studied the hand better before I posted. It's just fine.

Re: PF raise with QJs?
 

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If by sucks you mean played well, then I agree.

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Actually, the river was just fine.

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So are you misreading the turn card and what it does for his hand?

Re: PF raise with QJs?
 

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If by sucks you mean played well, then I agree.

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Actually, the river was just fine.

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So are you misreading the turn card and what it does for his hand?

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Yes, I misread the hand completely. Sorry.

Re: PF raise with QJs?
 

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2. I thought that he called those bets COLD on both the flop and the turn. But he didn't, obviously.


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You realize that Hero has a double gutshot on the turn right? All of the eight outs are probably good, but six are superclean. Hero could have called 4 bets cold.

Re: PF raise with QJs?
 

Preflop: Your hand is good enough to value raise into several limpers whether you posted a blind or not or not...but not worth reraising against the 3bet.

Flop: Can't fold as you're getting almost double the odds you need for your gutshot alone, nevermind the BDFD and slim top pair possibility. Zero fold equity on a semibluff, and a free card raise is more likely to be 3bet than usual, so no need for a fancy raise here. Getting reraised again sucks but the pot is big enough that you have to call.

Turn: Now you have a double gutshot, so you can't fold. You now have virtually no chance to win without a straight, so again no point in doing anything but just calling and trying to see a river as cheaply as possible.

River: Exactly how to play the nuts against people who've been showing strength.

Well played on all streets.

Re: PF raise with QJs?
 

I'm tempted to raise the flop.

Re: PF raise with QJs?
 

You're so lucky lucky lucky

Re: PF raise with QJs?
 

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I'm tempted to raise the flop.

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For value? You have nothing to protect, and I think you're pulling off a semibluff or free card close to never.

Re: PF raise with QJs?
 

preflop and river is fine. still can't see the point in raising the flop, as someone already mentioned there isn't much to protect, you got a gutshot and backdoor flushdraw, so I think you should lean towards pull rather than push, as many callers as possible. turn is OK but I should only have called, it's better to keep people in because the only way to win now is to get a str8 (flush draws will never fold, except small ones and the've already folded).

Re: PF raise with QJs?
 

Nice hand. I can't find any folds. i think the Deranged pf quiz clarified the pf action. Here is a quick hijack question: You post in CO at 3/6, get dealt 24o, and it is folded to you. the button and BB are tight, SB is a fish. check or raise?

Re: PF raise with QJs?
 

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Nice hand. I can't find any folds. i think the Deranged pf quiz clarified the pf action. Here is a quick hijack question: You post in CO at 3/6, get dealt 24o, and it is folded to you. the button and BB are tight, SB is a fish. check or raise?

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I suck at spots like this (thus why I post semi-noob PF threads like this one =/ ). I am tempted to check, as my already too high ASB causes many BB TAG's to 3 bet me with as low as k6o now =( .

Re: PF raise with QJs?
 

Nice catch ha [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] But I like the preflop raise becase your hand plays well post flop in many situations. You pretty much cant do anything but call on the flop and turn, becuase if you attempt to raise anywhere you may risk getting 3bet which would suck. On the flop you have your backdoor flush draw and your straight draw, so you have to stay in the pot. Turn gives you more straight outs, so once agian you gotta stay in. So yea calling is about all you can do on the flop and turn. River plays itsself. Nice job.

Re: PF raise with QJs?
 

Raise about any two in this situation, even if the SB calls you're in good position. You're getting 2.5-1 on the raise, 4.5-1 or 5-1 on the flop bet, and sometimes you'll just make the best hand and win.

Re: PF raise with QJs?
 

I think this is a pretty good hand all around. The small blind's flop CR sucked, but that's not gonna happen THAT often. The river action is sick...

I'm totally confused as to what UTG had, sb flopped a set I'm assuming.
Only thing I can imagine is UTG had A9 and decided to LAG up the river.

Re: PF raise with QJs?
 

preflop raise is SuPER easy. I'd consider capping it though. For the same reason we raise in the first place - we have a huge equity edge multiway. We lose some highcard value given we were 3bet but our straight and FD are HUGE! Wouldn't it be fantastic if we get a free card on this flop and then get to play a cheap turn and blow them up on the river [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

The only street that is close is the flop, but getting 12:1 on a GS and a bdfd I think we are more than fine to call this.

Rest of the hand is standard.

Re: PF raise with QJs?
 

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I should add that the blinds were loose passives as were the limpers, and that button was a TAG.


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That erases any doubt about the PF raise.

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Although if table was different, should I still raise this PF for some sort of equity edge? I was never quite clear about raising PF in multiway pots with certain hands (like j10s, mid pockets, etc.)

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Not my expertise either, but I say QJs is worth a raise in late position after 3 limpers even when you don't know your opponents. With at least 4 opp. to see the flop, and the fact that you have both suited connectors and top pair draws a raise is good. Has a great chance of buying the button and allowing you to take the free card. My reservation, though, is: how often will we win here with top pair? I think we will often enough to make raising profitable, but JTs is the worse hand for which this has value. (I'd like to hear any arguments against that). 98s~54s just check to the flop 6 handed.

Pocket pairs, CO, 3 limpers, new to table:

If you raise:
Probably 4 oponents.
set draw is less profitable.
99 more winnable UI.
opponents will check to you on the flop if they do not hit, but will call with as much as one over.
If a different opponents leads a flop with high card(s) the hand is easy to play.
bigger pot: harder to force opponents to fold overs.

No raise:
probably 5 opponents.
set draw will have value.
less likely to win UI.
Someone else will lead the flop allowing you to make it two bets (can protect your hand easier).
Small pot: easier to force overs to fold.

With that in mind, I say raise TT, call(check) 88, and might as well mix it up a little.

Re: PF raise with QJs?
 

My money's on A7 for UTG

Re: PF raise with QJs?
 

Why are we raising this hand preflop, we are in awful position to control a draw and I also don't think we have enough equity to call the 3bet on the flop.

Re: PF raise with QJs?
 

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Why are we raising this hand preflop, we are in awful position to control a draw

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Awful position? You have the second best absolute position possible! Also, you probably have an equity edge regardless of the identity of the limpers.

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and I also don't think we have enough equity to call the 3bet on the flop.

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Time to go study basic pot odds. You're getting 13-to-1 immediate odds, which is more than enough for your gutshot alone considering it's to the nuts. The possibility of a cap behind you is not enough to swing the call to unprofitable because of your BDFD.

Re: PF raise with QJs?
 

UTG had 77.
SB had A8o.

Re: PF raise with QJs?
 

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This hand sucks on all streets.

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If by sucks you mean played well, then I agree.

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Agreed. This hand is perfectly played on every street. Where would hero do anything else?

Re: PF raise with QJs? NC
 

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Also, any flames on the way the hand was played, seemed like I had odds to be calling on all streets (be it implied or immediate).


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If by sucks you mean played well, then I agree.


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Agreed. This hand is perfectly played on every street. Where would hero do anything else?


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Hope we haven't been too harsh on OP.