Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
 

Here are some things I've noticed in the games of these top pros by watching them play on TV. I'm not claiming they are 100% accurate, only mere observations. I'm curious to see if anyone else has made similiar observations.

Phil Hellmuth: his weakness is his tilt threshold which is very low. Also, his egocentricity is a big weakness. He tends to think nobody else at the table can play. Consequently he tends to think everytime he gets beat it is a bad beat, when it really isnt. He seems to expect to win every hand he plays, which in poker is impossible. His strengths are his ability to put players on hands and react accordingly, and his ability to make a huge laydown.

Sam Farha: He plays some questionable holdings, especially when he has alot of chips. He is easily bluffed out on the river even with considerably good hands, especially if the board becomes scary (i.e. Chris Moneymaker). His strengths are his hand reading ability and also being unreadable due to the high volume of hands he plays.

Howard Lederer: the guy is so intelligent I imagine he 2nd guesses himself alot. He seems to be so internally focused that he may miss what may be the simple and obvious play, especially against amateurs. His strengths are his ability to make good decisions, as well as his ability to bluff effectively.

Erik Seidel: seems somewhat bored with playing poker, as if he has lost the joy of the game and is just working. His strengths are his game consistancy, seemingly unaffected by short runs of luck, and his overall strategy.

Phil Ivey: very few weaknesses, except for a subtle tendancy to steam after a bad beat, although it usually passes after a couple hands. His strengths are his ability to make good decisions and adjust appropriately to other players styles.

Layne Flack: highly likely to bluff too often. His strengths are his heads up play, his hand reading and his ability to bluff effectively. His strengths sometimes backfire when other players set traps for his fast style of play or when they play back at him with nothing.

Dan Harrington: possibly too tight, not getting excess action. Strengths are hand selection and likelihood of succeeding with a big bluff.

Doyle Brunson: likes to take control of the pot and the table. Uses the all-in move very often. Not necessarily a weakness. Can be trapped more often than others. Strengths are ability to use excess chips and create a firestorm that can run over the table.

TJ Cloutier: seems like he's on a very long run of bad cards. Seems too willing to go broke on marginal hands. Doesnt seem to pay too much mind to what other players hold. Strengths are overall tournament strategy.

Chris Ferguson: another egocentric person, his weaknesses are few, if any.

Men Nguyen: higher than average tendancy to gamble.

Daniel Negreanu: higher than average tendancy to play small suited connected cards. Strengths are excellent overall strategy and hand reading ability.

Johnny Chan: less than average tendancy to bluff. Ability to bet marginal hands for full value. Occassionally can get trapped. Strengths are ability to vary game and adjust to opponents (i.e. vs Erik Seidel in wsop)

If you have any additional comments, feel free to add.

-J

Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
 

here is my observation of you -

you have no [censored] clue what you are talking about.

I'm not claiming this is 100% accurate, only mere observation.

If you have any additional comments, feel free to add.

Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
 

you just might be the best troll ever

Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
 

this is probably the worst analysis of the pros i have ever read. how the hell are you qualified to write this?
un real

just check barry's site to get the real down low.

Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
 

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this is probably the worst analysis of the pros i have ever read. how the hell are you qualified to write this?
un real


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lol since when does anyone have to be "qualified" to make a post on here. Also, what kinds of "qualifiers" would you deem acceptable? I was just posting some observations. If you dont agree, I would appreciate you post some of your views on these players, if you have any, rather than just sarcasm or insult.

Daryn- what happened to the color flash on your avatar? It was usually the thing I looked forward to most from your posts.

-J

Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
 

Don't listen to those other hating posters justin. I think you put some effort into your analysis and don't deserve to get ripped like that.

And i love the guy that say how are you qualified? You never said you were. You were stating an opinion you were forming through television. Thats there favorite line.

I agree with most of the stuff you said but too tired to go through all them now. Just thought you deserved to hear from someone who apreciated your effort. And ignore those guys. They just want to make people feel miserable because there not happy.

Anyway keep up the good work! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
 

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Don't listen to those other hating posters justin. I think you put some effort into your analysis and don't deserve to get ripped like that.

And i love the guy that say how are you qualified? You never said you were. You were stating an opinion you were forming through television. Thats there favorite line.

I agree with most of the stuff you said but too tired to go through all them now. Just thought you deserved to hear from someone who apreciated your effort. And ignore those guys. They just want to make people feel miserable because there not happy.

Anyway keep up the good work! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Smoothcall, don't listen to the flamers who say you're a complete idiot who never has anything worthwhile to post. It’s just an opinion. You don't deserve to get ripped on like that.

And no one said you were qualified as an English professor, but if you were, you probably would've opted for "they're" when saying "That ' s there favorite line."

Also, I for one DON'T believe you and Vincent L are gay lovers. That's merely hearsay. At most, just two diversely opinionated metrosexuals who are as footloose as they are fancy-free.

And as for the originator of this post, here is what I find to be your weakness (excluding your obvious enjoyment of Paul Phillips): You put way too much time into this post. You can't exactly critique tables from the 15 minutes we get of ESPN coverage. Also, Layne Flack's weakness might be his excessive drinking at the table. Men Nyguyen: he's a goddam cheater getting a % from his lackeys. Chris Ferguson: his gf is hotter than anything I'll ever get.

Any additional comments, don't add.

Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
 

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Sam Farha: He plays some questionable holdings, especially when he has alot of chips. He is easily bluffed out on the river even with considerably good hands, especially if the board becomes scary (i.e. Chris Moneymaker). His strengths are his hand reading ability and also being unreadable due to the high volume of hands he plays.

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You based this on ONE hand you saw on ESPN. Do you really expect people to take you seriously? What makes you think Erik Siedel is bored with the game? How do you know how long Phil Ivey steams for after a bad beat?

Worst. Analysis. Ever.

Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
 

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And no one said you were qualified as an English professor, but if you were, you probably would've opted for "they're" when saying "That ' s there favorite line."


[/ QUOTE ]

If you are going to correct grammer, you really have to get it right.
-Mike

Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
 

Even if this is all wrong, I think the pros listed could potentially be interested in reading something like this just because they will face unknown amateurs in tournaments who only know them from ESPN and they might want to know what kind of "image" they have with this type of player.

Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And no one said you were qualified as an English professor, but if you were, you probably would've opted for "they're" when saying "That ' s there favorite line."


[/ QUOTE ]

If you are going to correct grammer, you really have to get it right.
-Mike

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Can't believe I didn't pick up on that. That's hilarious.

Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And no one said you were qualified as an English professor, but if you were, you probably would've opted for "they're" when saying "That ' s there favorite line."


[/ QUOTE ]

If you are going to correct grammer, you really have to get it right.
-Mike

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Can't believe I didn't pick up on that. That's hilarious.

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There, their, they're...isn't life confusing enough? Like how to play JJ UTG? Or is ho or hoe correct?

Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
 

Lol this was an entertaining post. Here's one to add about Ivey, he goes broke on AJ in every tournament he enters!

Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
 

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Lol this was an entertaining post. Here's one to add about Ivey, he goes broke on AJ in every tournament he enters!

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if youre going to try to be funny and fail miserably, at least get the hand right.....its AQ

Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
 

[ QUOTE ]
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And no one said you were qualified as an English professor, but if you were, you probably would've opted for "they're" when saying "That ' s there favorite line."


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If you are going to correct grammer, you really have to get it right.
-Mike

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Can't believe I didn't pick up on that. That's hilarious.

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HHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHHA

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
 

As Vince Lepore became SMoothcall,
so Smoothcall shall become JJNJustin.

Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
 

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Lol this was an entertaining post. Here's one to add about Ivey, he goes broke on AJ in every tournament he enters!

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if youre going to try to be funny and fail miserably, at least get the hand right.....its AQ

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If you're going to correct me and fail miserably, try not be an ass about it. In two WPT events he went broke on AJ, nice try though pal. Now go play your 1-2 NL game at stars and shut your trap.

Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And no one said you were qualified as an English professor, but if you were, you probably would've opted for "they're" when saying "That ' s there favorite line."


[/ QUOTE ]

If you are going to correct grammer, you really have to get it right.
-Mike

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Can't believe I didn't pick up on that. That's hilarious.

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And to add another layer, the word is "grammar" - it's funny with the word meaning what it does that it's misspelled so often.

Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
 

Everything you've formed your opinion on is based solely on what ESPN has made you believe through commentating and editing.

Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
 

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this is probably the worst analysis of the pros i have ever read. how the hell are you qualified to write this?
un real


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lol since when does anyone have to be "qualified" to make a post on here. Also, what kinds of "qualifiers" would you deem acceptable?

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qualifications

Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
 

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Don't listen to those other hating posters justin. I think you put some effort into your analysis and don't deserve to get ripped like that.

And i love the guy that say how are you qualified? You never said you were. You were stating an opinion you were forming through television. Thats there favorite line.

I agree with most of the stuff you said but too tired to go through all them now. Just thought you deserved to hear from someone who apreciated your effort. And ignore those guys. They just want to make people feel miserable because there not happy.

Anyway keep up the good work! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Took the words out of my mouth.

Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
 

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Sam Farha: He plays some questionable holdings, especially when he has alot of chips. He is easily bluffed out on the river even with considerably good hands, especially if the board becomes scary (i.e. Chris Moneymaker). His strengths are his hand reading ability and also being unreadable due to the high volume of hands he plays.

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You based this on ONE hand you saw on ESPN. Do you really expect people to take you seriously? What makes you think Erik Siedel is bored with the game? How do you know how long Phil Ivey steams for after a bad beat?

Worst. Analysis. Ever.

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There is another hand in the 2003 WSOP Sam Farha plays against either Amir Vahedi or Scotty Nguyen. Again he is bluffed out on the river by a large bet when he holds a reasonable, yet marginal hand (2 pair I think). I didnt base that comment solely on one hand.

Once again I dont claim to "know" anything about how these top professionals play. Obviously I have never been in a live game with any of them nor will probably ever be. These are just general impressions I get from watching these guys play on television. I agree that such impressions carry very little "weight" in reality. I merely wanted to see if anybody else watching these guys play on ESPN got the same sort of impressions I did. This way, I can verify that I probably live in the same realm of reality that others do. Sometimes I wonder....

lol

-J

Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
 

For those who think my analysis was "the worst ever", I would like to point out that the one comment that really bothered me to write was that it seemed to me that TJ Cloutier was too willing to go broke on marginal hands. I saw him bust out of 2003 with AJ against an early position raise, 2005 with KQ on a ragged flop, tournament of champions with like A5, I believe, and on a WPT even was like 89hearts all-in preflop, and in an older WSOP event again he went all-in with KQ on a ragged flop. Yet I have molto respect for this man and his accomplishments and making such a comment bothered me because the few hands what I have seen on ESPN pails in comparison to the man's entire career. Neverless, this is indeed a tendancy I have noticed based on the hands I have seen broadcast on ESPN.

A few days after I made this post, I notice a thread entitled "Would you risk it all late in a major tournament with 88? TJ just did ". So apparently, I do live in the same reality that others do (at least one other person) and my comments are not totally without some basis from the hands ESPN chooses to broadcast.

And I agree with the one post who said you cant really make conclusive judgements on the few hands you see on ESPN. These are just small fragments of these guys' entire game/career. They are, however, what we, joe-q-poker, get to see and what our impressions are based upon.

-J

p.s. It's funny that no one has dogged my Phil Hellmuth comment. LOL.

Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And no one said you were qualified as an English professor, but if you were, you probably would've opted for "they're" when saying "That ' s there favorite line."


[/ QUOTE ]

If you are going to correct grammer, you really have to get it right.
-Mike

[/ QUOTE ]

What is grammer?

Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
 

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For those who think my analysis was "the worst ever", I would like to point out that the one comment that really bothered me to write was that it seemed to me that TJ Cloutier was too willing to go broke on marginal hands. I saw him bust out of 2003 with AJ against an early position raise, 2005 with KQ on a ragged flop, tournament of champions with like A5, I believe, and on a WPT even was like 89hearts all-in preflop, and in an older WSOP event again he went all-in with KQ on a ragged flop.

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You don't mention stack size or pot size for any of these hands. This is not a minor detail...it is impossible to even begin to evaluate any of them without this information.

Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
 

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Lol this was an entertaining post. Here's one to add about Ivey, he goes broke on AJ in every tournament he enters!

[/ QUOTE ]

if youre going to try to be funny and fail miserably, at least get the hand right.....its AQ

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're going to correct me and fail miserably, try not be an ass about it. In two WPT events he went broke on AJ, nice try though pal. Now go play your 1-2 NL game at stars and shut your trap.

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It's one thing to be wrong initially, but to be corrected and still insist you are right is crazy. The correct hand is AQ. In Foxwoods, he ran into Howard Lederer's KK, and at the WPT Championship, Kirill Gerasimov had AK. I think he also lost at a WPT final table this year with AQ vs. Josh Arieh's 33.

Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
 

I think you have no basis to make these assumptions. All you see is a limited selection of hands. What ESPN wants you to see and or brings in ratings. Until you play severl longs sessions with these players there is no point in generalizing their play. Also know that the top pros can change gears at anytime ...

Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
 

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I think you have no basis to make these assumptions. All you see is a limited selection of hands. What ESPN wants you to see and or brings in ratings. Until you play severl longs sessions with these players there is no point in generalizing their play. Also know that the top pros can change gears at anytime ... [/quote

I agree.

-J

Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
 

[ QUOTE ]
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Lol this was an entertaining post. Here's one to add about Ivey, he goes broke on AJ in every tournament he enters!

[/ QUOTE ]

if youre going to try to be funny and fail miserably, at least get the hand right.....its AQ

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're going to correct me and fail miserably, try not be an ass about it. In two WPT events he went broke on AJ, nice try though pal. Now go play your 1-2 NL game at stars and shut your trap.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's one thing to be wrong initially, but to be corrected and still insist you are right is crazy. The correct hand is AQ. In Foxwoods, he ran into Howard Lederer's KK, and at the WPT Championship, Kirill Gerasimov had AK. I think he also lost at a WPT final table this year with AQ vs. Josh Arieh's 33.

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I'm thinking of the WPC when Ivey got dealt AJ, got crippled by Hollink's pocket queens, then like three hands later busts out with AJ. I know of at least one other tournament he either got crippled or eliminated with AJ. I'm trying to find it.

Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
 

I enjoyed your post, don't listen to these poor human beings. I accepted your information and I am still forming an opinion about these proffessional players. Thanks for your time.