25-50 -- 4 bet the turn?
 

Game is 4-handed. Villain is a little loose and seems like the type who plays by "feel". He probably is breakeven at best in this game, but he can make money when he is running good against aggros because he calls a lot of bets. He is an affable fellow and we have been chatting. He views me as aggressive and good, but not reckless (or so he says). I don't know how much it matters, but Villain was stuck early in the session after getting sucked out on a couple of times, but now has $7500. I cover by a pretty big margin, as I have been running very good. I haven't been the one sucking out on him.

Preflop

I make it $175 to go with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB folds, Villain calls in the BB.

Flop

2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Villain bets $300. I call.

Turn

8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Villain bets $550. I minraise to $1100. He has never seen me minraise in this game, or any other game, because I almost never do it. Villain makes it $3100 to go. I push.

Re: 25-50 -- 4 bet the turn?
 

I think you should've raised the flop to about 1200 to get a better idea of where you are in the hand.

As played, it looks to me like you are beat. I think your flop call, and turn raise shows a lot of strength, even if it was a miniraise. Once he 3-bets to $3100, I think I'd fold, unless he is very reckless. I think its hard to put him on a hand, but he could have a set. If he has 99-KK, once you raise turn, he would just call. I just can't really see you being ahead here, especially if he views you as pretty solid.

Re: 25-50 -- 4 bet the turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think you should've raised the flop to about 1200 to get a better idea of where you are in the hand.

As played, it looks to me like you are beat. I think your flop call, and turn raise shows a lot of strength, even if it was a miniraise. Once he 3-bets to $3100, I think I'd fold, unless he is very reckless. I think its hard to put him on a hand, but he could have a set. If he has 99-KK, once you raise turn, he would just call. I just can't really see you being ahead here, especially if he views you as pretty solid.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's beating all overpairs and draws.

Re: 25-50 -- 4 bet the turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you should've raised the flop to about 1200 to get a better idea of where you are in the hand.

As played, it looks to me like you are beat. I think your flop call, and turn raise shows a lot of strength, even if it was a miniraise. Once he 3-bets to $3100, I think I'd fold, unless he is very reckless. I think its hard to put him on a hand, but he could have a set. If he has 99-KK, once you raise turn, he would just call. I just can't really see you being ahead here, especially if he views you as pretty solid.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's beating all overpairs and draws.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think an overpair or draw would 3-bet in this spot. I think hero's flop call and turn raise look pretty strong.

Re: 25-50 -- 4 bet the turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think you should've raised the flop to about 1200 to get a better idea of where you are in the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

What conclusions am I supposed to draw if he flat calls my flop raise, which he certainly could do with a hand like QQ, a set or a flopped straight? I don't see how this would help me at all.

Re: 25-50 -- 4 bet the turn?
 

what reason can you have for minraising thwe turn? maybe provide that a little...

i hate the minraise, i think it looks weak, and looks like the type of "i want a free showdown" thing, which is great when you have a monster v an aggro villain, but in this spot it is tough to say whether villain thinks he is best with an overpair or thinks he is best with a set... i think if you raise the turn larger, he gets more passive on you with anything you beat and you will have a much better idea of where you are in the hand. the action looks like you are beat here but like i said with th eminraise it is really hard to tell. i like that move much better v passive players or v overaggro players with a monster.

Re: 25-50 -- 4 bet the turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
what reason can you have for minraising thwe turn? maybe provide that a little...

[/ QUOTE ]

Duck,

I agree that the minraise looks weak, and I wanted Villain to see it as weak too. I really thought that I was ahead here and I didn't mind getting it all in (obviously).

Re: 25-50 -- 4 bet the turn?
 

i like all of it.
that is all.

Re: 25-50 -- 4 bet the turn?
 

A4s, ship it.

Re: 25-50 -- 4 bet the turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
i like all of it.
that is all.

[/ QUOTE ]

You also got knocked out of the MH HU invitational tourney in the first round.

Re: 25-50 -- 4 bet the turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i like all of it.
that is all.

[/ QUOTE ]

You also got knocked out of the MH HU invitational tourney in the first round.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yo AZK, what line do you prefer?

Re: 25-50 -- 4 bet the turn?
 

Raise flop or turn, just not the minraise, it doesn't really do anything for you.

Re: 25-50 -- 4 bet the turn?
 

This hand is a live read hand. Nothing else.

Results
 

[ QUOTE ]
This hand is a live read hand. Nothing else.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess so. I posted the hand because my read was off by an F-ton, and I was wondering if my play was even reasonable. Villain typed in the chat line that he had a set of 2s and folded. I got the sense that he was telling the truth. I assumed my fold equity visa-vis a set here was exactly zero. I guess you just fall assbackwards into a win sometimes.

Re: Results
 

Dude - I assumed that because you called the guy "affable" and that you seem to post some live hands that this was in B&M. If you got him to fold 222, then wow. I don't believe him, but you won, so who cares.

Re: Results
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This hand is a live read hand. Nothing else.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess so. I posted the hand because my read was off by an F-ton, and I was wondering if my play was even reasonable. Villain typed in the chat line that he had a set of 2s and folded. I got the sense that he was telling the truth. I assumed my fold equity visa-vis a set here was exactly zero. I guess you just fall assbackwards into a win sometimes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, dude, if he told you he folded a set on that board, he was on total complete [censored] air, imo.

Re: Results
 

[ QUOTE ]
[
Um, dude, if he told you he folded a set on that board, he was on total complete [censored] air, imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

You probably are correct, but he bitched and moaned about it for so long that it made me wonder. I also rarely tell people in these SH'ed games when I make a big laydown.

Re: Results
 

Raise the flop.

Re: Results
 

Wow; if he really folded 22 getting almost 3:1, your minraise must have really confused him. I think you lucked out (or he's lying).

Re: 25-50 -- 4 bet the turn?
 

Is there anything wrong with just calling, on the flop and turn?

Re: 25-50 -- 4 bet the turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Raise flop or turn, just not the minraise, it doesn't really do anything for you.

[/ QUOTE ]
what does bigger raise do for you??

Re: 25-50 -- 4 bet the turn?
 

Most people at these limits will just bulldoze a minraise, so what's the point?

Re: 25-50 -- 4 bet the turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Most people at these limits will just bulldoze a minraise, so what's the point?

[/ QUOTE ]

I make it $175 to go with A A

Re: 25-50 -- 4 bet the turn?
 

I do too. I am refering to his turn minraise.

Re: 25-50 -- 4 bet the turn?
 

he was lying about having a set of deuces.

Re: 25-50 -- 4 bet the turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I do too. I am refering to his turn minraise.

[/ QUOTE ]
i copy and pasted that from the OP you dits.

Re: 25-50 -- 4 bet the turn?
 

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Most people at these limits will just bulldoze a minraise, so what's the point?

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't mind if he "bulldozed" the minraise. In many respect, that was the point because I thought I was ahead.