Ideal ratio of 1st : 2nd : 3rd finishes?
 

Wondering what you think is a good ratio for these finishes? Obviously we all would want 100% : 0% : 0%, but that certainly is not possible. So what is a "good" percentage of your finishes for the total amount of SNGs played?

Re: Ideal ratio of 1st : 2nd : 3rd finishes?
 

13/12/12. holla

Re: Ideal ratio of 1st : 2nd : 3rd finishes?
 

Higher 1st % means you need less 2nd and 3rd but I suppose if you have lots of 3rds you dont need as many 1sts. It depends on your style, i dont think there is an "ideal" distribution. Whichever one will get you the highest ROI. But like if you are getting a ton more 2nds than 1st you might suck heads up and lots of 3rds could be a little too crazy ITM.

Re: Ideal ratio of 1st : 2nd : 3rd finishes?
 

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13/12/12. holla

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or that

Re: Ideal ratio of 1st : 2nd : 3rd finishes?
 

Haha aight, I dunno if that's a serious number or not, but thanks! Do most of the best players have lots of 3rds to get in the money, then gamble for 1st? Or do they take big risks on the bubble so they make it into the money less but have more 1sts?

Thanks

Re: Ideal ratio of 1st : 2nd : 3rd finishes?
 

i tend to play fairly aggressive on the bubble for more 1sts because of the obvious amount of more money for 1st

Re: Ideal ratio of 1st : 2nd : 3rd finishes?
 

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i tend to play fairly aggressive on the bubble for more 1sts because of the obvious amount of more money for 1st

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I don't get this. ITM it's usually push or fold, so you should just get all the +$EV pushes, and fold the rest. You're not going to make -$EV pushes, right? So how can you play more aggressively than normal or whatever?

Re: Ideal ratio of 1st : 2nd : 3rd finishes?
 

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i tend to play fairly aggressive on the bubble for more 1sts because of the obvious amount of more money for 1st

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I don't get this. ITM it's usually push or fold, so you should just get all the +$EV pushes, and fold the rest. You're not going to make -$EV pushes, right? So how can you play more aggressively than normal or whatever?

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There's a big difference between a +0.1% and a +0.8% (or whatever number you choose) push.

Re: Ideal ratio of 1st : 2nd : 3rd finishes?
 

FWIW, I don't shut it down like a lot of people at the bubble. My ratio (only about 200 SNGs to date) is about 35:25:22:22. I'm not sure if I can keep that up over the long run.

Re: Ideal ratio of 1st : 2nd : 3rd finishes?
 

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i tend to play fairly aggressive on the bubble for more 1sts because of the obvious amount of more money for 1st

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I don't get this. ITM it's usually push or fold, so you should just get all the +$EV pushes, and fold the rest. You're not going to make -$EV pushes, right? So how can you play more aggressively than normal or whatever?

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Thing is, you can play to just slip ITM and then take your chances there, or you can play more aggresive on the bubble to take command with the goal to come ITM with a nice healthy stack and take #1 more often than you take #2 or #3. The more aggresive style obviously has higher risk but if applied correctly should give you more money. The more passive way offers less variance but also probably less $$$.

Atleas thats what I think he meant :S

Re: Ideal ratio of 1st : 2nd : 3rd finishes?
 

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FWIW, I don't shut it down like a lot of people at the bubble. My ratio (only about 200 SNGs to date) is about 35:25:22:22. I'm not sure if I can keep that up over the long run.

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Are you saying that you get top 4 finishes 104% of the time? I Think that might be unsustainable, and it really isn't about your measley sample size.

Re: Ideal ratio of 1st : 2nd : 3rd finishes?
 

1st > 3rd > 2nd 1+2+3 minimum of 35%

Re: Ideal ratio of 1st : 2nd : 3rd finishes?
 

I seem to be 3rd > 1st > 2nd so far. Am I just playing too passively ITM? I think I might be play "over"aggressive and pushing almost everything and calling almost every all in with a LARGE chip lead and high blinds. Standard? Probably also too tight 4 left where I'll fold hands like A8, KJ, etc if 4th is getting low stacked.

Re: Ideal ratio of 1st : 2nd : 3rd finishes?
 

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I seem to be 3rd > 1st > 2nd so far. Am I just playing too passively ITM? I think I might be play "over"aggressive and pushing almost everything and calling almost every all in with a LARGE chip lead and high blinds. Standard? Probably also too tight 4 left where I'll fold hands like A8, KJ, etc if 4th is getting low stacked.

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it seems likely that you're trying to squeak ITM.

Re: Ideal ratio of 1st : 2nd : 3rd finishes?
 

Yeah, do you advocate just being a total bully with a lot of chips on the bubble? And pushing a lot of strong hands with 4 left if are currently in 3rd, but have a good shot to double up?

Re: Ideal ratio of 1st : 2nd : 3rd finishes?
 

For a given ROI, the best distribution is one which produces the highest ITM.

Re: Ideal ratio of 1st : 2nd : 3rd finishes?
 

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For a given ROI, the best distribution is one which produces the highest ITM.

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That would mean all thirds and zero firsts and seconds.

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Ideal ratio of 1st : 2nd : 3rd finishes?
 

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For a given ROI, the best distribution is one which produces the highest ITM.

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That would mean all thirds and zero firsts and seconds.

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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yes

Re: Ideal ratio of 1st : 2nd : 3rd finishes?
 

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For a given ROI, the best distribution is one which produces the highest ITM.

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Uh...no. That's only if you give a [censored] about variance. ROI is ROI. Who cares about ITM? [censored] ITM

Re: Ideal ratio of 1st : 2nd : 3rd finishes?
 

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For a given ROI, the best distribution is one which produces the highest ITM.

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Uh...no. That's only if you give a [censored] about variance. ROI is ROI. Who cares about ITM? [censored] ITM

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I give a huge [censored] about variance! Low variance = high sanity.

Re: Ideal ratio of 1st : 2nd : 3rd finishes?
 

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For a given ROI, the best distribution is one which produces the highest ITM.

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Uh...no. That's only if you give a [censored] about variance. ROI is ROI. Who cares about ITM? [censored] ITM

[/ QUOTE ]

I give a huge [censored] about variance! Low variance = high sanity.

[/ QUOTE ]

high variance + high ROI = mad gangstaness = MASS BITCHES

Re: Ideal ratio of 1st : 2nd : 3rd finishes?
 

[ QUOTE ]
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For a given ROI, the best distribution is one which produces the highest ITM.

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Uh...no. That's only if you give a [censored] about variance. ROI is ROI. Who cares about ITM? [censored] ITM

[/ QUOTE ]

I give a huge [censored] about variance! Low variance = high sanity.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you might want to reconsider your choice in careers if you value sanity over profit.

Re: Ideal ratio of 1st : 2nd : 3rd finishes?
 

10 tabling 55's
ITM: 35%
ROI: 17%

http://saturn.walagata.com/w/nirrrr/Finish_graph.png


im godlike...

Re: Ideal ratio of 1st : 2nd : 3rd finishes?
 

[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For a given ROI, the best distribution is one which produces the highest ITM.

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Uh...no. That's only if you give a [censored] about variance. ROI is ROI. Who cares about ITM? [censored] ITM

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I give a huge [censored] about variance! Low variance = high sanity.

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I think you might want to reconsider your choice in careers if you value sanity over profit.

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heh.

i did say "for a given ROI."

Re: Ideal ratio of 1st : 2nd : 3rd finishes?
 

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10 tabling 55's

http://saturn.walagata.com/w/nirrrr/Finish_graph.png

wow, you have almost as many 5ths as I do! And way more 1sts!
im godlike...

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Re: Ideal ratio of 1st : 2nd : 3rd finishes?
 

How big a sample is that over Nir?

Re: Ideal ratio of 1st : 2nd : 3rd finishes?
 

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How big a sample is that over Nir?

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little over 1k.

Re: Ideal ratio of 1st : 2nd : 3rd finishes?
 

Do you guys use PAHUD when you play? I find it tough when I'm 10 tabling to get a lot of good reads because I can't focus on all tables. Or is the strategy when the blinds get high to basically just push all your good hands anyways so that doesn't matter?

Re: Ideal ratio of 1st : 2nd : 3rd finishes?
 

only reads i make are who is constantly raising my blind. and whose blinds i raised too much. thats it.

Re: Ideal ratio of 1st : 2nd : 3rd finishes?
 

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Do you guys use PAHUD when you play? I find it tough when I'm 10 tabling to get a lot of good reads because I can't focus on all tables. Or is the strategy when the blinds get high to basically just push all your good hands anyways so that doesn't matter?

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I use PAHUD. Who would you rather push into? Someone with a 5% VPIP or a 55% VPIP? I use it a lot. PAHUD = my reads.

Re: Ideal ratio of 1st : 2nd : 3rd finishes?
 

Agree with DonkBluffer. (And no I haven't forgotten about that script to close tables lol, just been busy). I do have a good memory for when someone did something stupid as well though, so it's not only PAHUD that I use for reads, but then at the $109s you see the same people enough for that to be a factor

Re: Ideal ratio of 1st : 2nd : 3rd finishes?
 

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Agree with DonkBluffer. (And no I haven't forgotten about that script to close tables lol, just been busy). I do have a good memory for when someone did something stupid as well though, so it's not only PAHUD that I use for reads, but then at the $109s you see the same people enough for that to be a factor

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We're way off topic here. Sorry about that, but do you just remember your reads or do you make a note? I ofcourse also remember things at a table. I have a bad memory but it's not THAT bad. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Ideal ratio of 1st : 2nd : 3rd finishes?
 

I just remember them for the most part. It's very rare that I make a note