A poll
 

30/60, fish raises UTG, you coldcall preflop on the button with 88, unknown in the SB coldcalls.

Flop:

2s3s4o, UTG bets, you raise, SB coldcalls, UTG times out and folds.

Turn:

3o.

Bet-call.

River:

Jo.

You bet, he checkraises, you...

Re: A poll
 

i said call, but moreso because at that point in the hand i'm thinking 'what the hell just happened' want want to look up the player (along with the chance my hand is good).


but i think i'd also raise this turn and fold to a 3 bet, as the SB's bet out could be A4, 55 66 or 77 not wanting to give a flush draw/overcards a freebie.

stealthcow-

Re: A poll
 

I would 3 bet the PF, why not isolate the fish?

Re: A poll
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would 3 bet the PF, why not isolate the fish?

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: A poll
 

I don't know how I should vote. I probably call this down about half the time, but I don't think it's making me money.

Re: A poll
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would 3 bet the PF, why not isolate the fish?

[/ QUOTE ]

Lets avoid preflop, this hand wasn't played by me.

Re: A poll
 

I call. Unknowns aren't going to get away with me not knowing whether they are tricky river check-raisers or not.

Re: A poll
 

Anyhow i was against the 2+2er and i knew he didn't know me, i had KQs and decided not to checkraise the river.

Re: A poll
 

[ QUOTE ]
Anyhow i was against the 2+2er and i knew he didn't know me, i had KQs and decided not to checkraise the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if people have answered the poll honestly (i.e. the same as they would have actually played - i doubt this), the river check-raise bluff would have been the correct play against an "average" 2+2'er?

Re: A poll
 

My rough quick math shows i have to be good 1/5 times with my bluff and 1/3 2+2ers fold, so yea, it's good.

... that's assuming a 2+2er would always have 66 77 88 99 here, AJs seems possible, maybe others.

Re: A poll
 

I misread the OP. I thought the turn sequence went check-bet-call instead of the actual bet-call. Because of my misread I voted fold, but would have voted for a call had I been paying attention.

It looks to me a lot like the SB had a nut flush draw and figured the pot was big enough to take a stab at it on the river (this is the only real way to pull down this pot for him). Another factor would be that I would like to see if this unknown player is actually the tricky river type player. What better time to find out this information on a new player then the first hand you play with him? This is not a bad situation to find out that kind of information as there is also a fairly good chance that you do indeed have the best hand. You only need to have the best hand about 10% of the time to show a profit here.

My answer could have been different depending on whether ot not the UTG player timed out with disconnect protection. I can't see the OP right now but I think it was mentioned that he was folded out.

Re: A poll
 

I think there may also be a difference btwn how we act and how we know we should act. I wonder how many of us actually fold here. Regardless, I think this is a should call anyway. The chance that he has missed is str8 or flush is too great.

However, odds are you're losing this hand -IMHO

CSC

Re: A poll
 

[ QUOTE ]
30/60, fish raises UTG, you coldcall preflop on the button with 88, unknown in the SB coldcalls.

Flop:

2s3s4o, UTG bets, you raise, SB coldcalls, UTG times out and folds.

Turn:

3o.

Bet-call.

River:

Jo.

You bet, he checkraises, you...

[/ QUOTE ]

i voted call. it reeks of a draw.

-Barron

Re: A poll
 

[ QUOTE ]
My rough quick math shows i have to be good 1/5 times with my bluff and 1/3 2+2ers fold, so yea, it's good.

... that's assuming a 2+2er would always have 66 77 88 99 here, AJs seems possible, maybe others.

[/ QUOTE ]

a thinking player would realize what was going on...by not checkraising the TURN, it gives too much of a chance for a call...

if you think you're going to make this play on the river then do it on the turn and bet the river if called on the turn...i think this gets you a fold way more often. plus you may get a free card on the turn.

but by not checkraising the turn, it looks so much like its a last ditch effort that id call here every time.

-Barron

Re: A poll
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My rough quick math shows i have to be good 1/5 times with my bluff and 1/3 2+2ers fold, so yea, it's good.

... that's assuming a 2+2er would always have 66 77 88 99 here, AJs seems possible, maybe others.

[/ QUOTE ]

a thinking player would realize what was going on...by not checkraising the TURN, it gives too much of a chance for a call...

if you think you're going to make this play on the river then do it on the turn and bet the river if called on the turn...i think this gets you a fold way more often. plus you may get a free card on the turn.

but by not checkraising the turn, it looks so much like its a last ditch effort that id call here every time.

-Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, I agree with this reasoning if you are going to make this play but you mention the possibility of a free card on the turn which you are, in fact, paying $60 for (this is party 15, right).

I want to add that I am no longer a big fan of raising/chkRzing a flush draw. It is just so damn obvious and common.

CSC

Re: A poll
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would 3 bet the PF, why not isolate the fish?

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: A poll
 

[ QUOTE ]
plus you may get a free card on the turn.


[/ QUOTE ]

How are you getting a free card on the turn?

b

Re: A poll
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
plus you may get a free card on the turn.


[/ QUOTE ]

How are you getting a free card on the turn?

b

[/ QUOTE ]

by attempting the c'r on the turn from the blinds you may whiff but still get a free card to opponents small pair or ace high when you're no good on the turn at the moment...

-Barron

Re: A poll
 

A free card on which street?

results?
 

You have well over 100 in the poll running @ 2:1 for calling.

So what happened?

Re: A poll
 

1800,

when you coldcall the flop and lead the turn, what are you thinking the button will put you on?

I've never really seen this line without a 3 before, but:
1) not many hands of yours will have a 3 without the preflop action.
2) wouldn't you c/r a 3? or would that blow him off a hand you want him calling with?

Re: results?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You have well over 100 in the poll running @ 2:1 for calling.

So what happened?

[/ QUOTE ]

Please learn to read.

Re: A poll
 

I meant to say checl-bet-call on the turn not bet-call, sorry :/

Re: A poll
 

[ QUOTE ]
A free card on which street?

[/ QUOTE ]

ok, here's how i read the action: sb checks utgbets 88 raises. sb cold calls, utg folds (timeout).

on the turn the sb checks (but not sure because you said "bet-call" when the sb acts first. now the 88 may (from the sb's point of view) may check here. if he DOESN'T, the plan is the checkraise the turn since the sb plans to c'r the river. the extra bet investment in the river bet (follow through) will get you a ton more folds (given no fold immediately on the turn) than a call from the sb and checkraise on the river given a cold call and the unknown nature of the sb (it would LOOK like a strong hand, small set, straight etc...). but by waiting till the river to checkraise, it looks much more desperate.

what i meant about getting a free card is that the sb may have the turn checked through. he's of course offering and not taking the freebee but if its free its free. so a plan to checkraise the turn will sometimes result in a check behind=free card.

-Barron