Not just another question about \'going pro\'
 

I don't want to make another silly thread about going pro. I've done the search and read all the material on it. In looking through it, there is really only one question I didn't find answered. If anyone out there uses either poker or some other form of self employment as their primary source of income and also has a family, how do you handle replacing the 'benefits' you get from a 'real job'? Mainly what you do to replace insurance, cafeteria plans, 401k, etc.

I do apologize if this has been covered before, but I'm seriously contemplating quitting my 'real job' after March of next year once I get my yearly bonus and doing a combination of poker playing and freelance programming (I'm a software engineer) to pay the bills, but having a young child and planning to have another some time in the near future I'm a little worried about insurance and some of the other niceties that come from a 'real job'.

Thanks in advance, and if you'd rather discuss in PM please feel free to PM me.

-Rizen

Re: Not just another question about \'going pro\'
 

So let me get this straight you have one kid and want another one soon and you are willing to risk everything playing poker. To be blunt -you are nuts to put your family at risk to play a game. If you were a 20 year old kid with no responsibility then I would say knock yourself out BUT come on lets put a little thought into this.

Re: Not just another question about \'going pro\'
 

Since you have no idea

1. How much he makes playing poker

2. How much he expects to make as a freelance software engineer

maybe you should you be less of a dick and let someone who knows the answers to his questions respond.

Re: Not just another question about \'going pro\'
 

[ QUOTE ]
Since you have no idea

1. How much he makes playing poker

2. How much he expects to make as a freelance software engineer

maybe you should you be less of a dick and let someone who knows the answers to his questions respond.

[/ QUOTE ]

I second this.

Re: Not just another question about \'going pro\'
 

[ QUOTE ]

maybe you should you be less of a dick and let someone who knows the answers to his questions respond.

[/ QUOTE ]

pwned!

Re: Not just another question about \'going pro\'
 

I'm on the fence about being a dick or giving the guy his due. I think the more appropriate response by mshalen would have been to ask what kind of ROI he has and over what kind of length of time. I just hope the OP knows that he is capable of sustaining any variance by playing poker ONLY for a living.

I wish you luck Rizen and just hope you do consider all the factors involved.

Re: Not just another question about \'going pro\'
 

If he does this responsibly, there is minimal risk.

If he has the proper bankroll, and plays at the proper levels, there is probably no more risk than there would be of losing his job.

Re: Not just another question about \'going pro\'
 

It's none of his business what kind of ROI he has and over what period of time. The intent behind it (as I understand it) was to caution OP about danger of such a move. Obviously he is aware, ie. posting this thread, looking for advice from others who do so. Best of luck Rizen. One day I'll be pwning the 200k and 500k w/ ya'll.

Re: Not just another question about \'going pro\'
 

Employers do not have a monopoly on health benefits. All these services can be procured directly from health providers. Here is an appoximation of what your employer pays:

Medical Benefits Quality PPO family of 4 - $900/month
Dental family of 4 $60/month
Vision family of 4 $20/month
Death benefits $15/month
Long term disability $30/month
Vacation 4%-8% of salary
401K (individual Keogh can be setup)
Employers portion of social security tax 8% of salary or ~$6000



I suggest you make a budget. For most people, their employer's contribution to their benefits is substantial.

Re: Not just another question about \'going pro\'
 

My child is a teenager and my wife works as a paralegal, so we get all our benefits from her job. However, my wife has contemplated quitting her job and we got a LOT of good information from our financial planner. Therefore, I would suggest getting a financial planner who understands the business of gambling and does taxes. My financial planner takes care of all the retirement and taxes.

As for the rest, I don't know what a cafeteria plan is, so I can't begin to comment on that. And insurance can be gotten directly from an insurance company, it will just be a lot more expensive than the group plans you'll get from a 'real job'. Again, any good financial planner can help you with ALL of that stuff and more. So my best suggestion is, again, to find a reputable financial planner and discuss all this before 'going pro'.

Re: Not just another question about \'going pro\'
 

wasn't saying mshalen should try to be nosy. was just trying to find a politically correct way of stating his concern when his family is at risk. mshalen has a point in that if you are single and you are risking only your well being, then so be it. a huge consideration for ALL the factors involved needs to be considered when there is an entire family involved (having a baby is not cheap, especially if there are any complications involved). All these things need to be considered. I don't know how successful of a poker player Rizen is, not having been lurking/posting here for more than a couple of months (and only during working hours anyway). I would recommend building a nice bankroll (translation nestegg) to fall back on before quitting. Again, I wish him luck and hope he can pull it off.

Re: Not just another question about \'going pro\'
 

The question of health insurance sort of gets debated every now and then I think. The resounding answer seems to be "you have to be retarded not to get health insurance, ever". So stuff like that, you still need to pay if you quit your day job.

Health insurance costs a ton of money by yourself, I guess companies get some kind of bargaining power with the HMOs. You won't. You probably can/should expect to pay 500 a month for this by youself (I'm sure other posters know better numbers, but I think 500 a month seems about right), obviously we don't know your health situation. Also keep in mind covering your wife/kids.

As you probably know, all "benefits" your company provides could be pay to you. I'm sure somewhere there's a total for how much of your pay is paid to you as "benefits". So if your income from your day job is 50k+5k in "benefits", you should simply look at poker as having to make those up. The key is not to look at "benefits" as "free money", it's *not*, EXCEPT for the fact that you get to take advantage of the collective bargaining the company basically does on your behalf, namely the health insurance example.

I wouldn't feel comfortable unless my "worst case scenario" for poker was 15% above my salery+benefits.

Work also provides a social environment. Who wants to sit at home alone and play on the computer all day. Or deal with the social sludge at cardrooms. It's good once in a while, but personally, I couldn't stand more than a certain amount. Nevermind the security of the job income. And everyone knows night poker is the most profitable time anyway.

Re: Not just another question about \'going pro\'
 

i'll be interested to hear how your experiences with this go. i'm also planning on quitting my job and so i'm looking into health insurace.

- as others have said, individual HI is more expensive than if you get it through a job. so a buddy of mine got himself incorporated so that he could offer corporate insurance to his girlfriend. he's offered the same deal to me, but i'm not sure if i'm too sketched out by it. (anyone with info please pipe up).

- i'm also meeting with a guy from national association for the self-employed a week from today to see what kind of packages they offer.

my situation's a little simpler as i'm 26 and single, but i'm really looking forward to the non-office life. btw, congrats on all the big scores lately.

Re: Not just another question about \'going pro\'
 

schwza... I'd love to hear how that meeting goes, if you wouldn't mind sharing it with us.

Re: Not just another question about \'going pro\'
 

[ QUOTE ]
schwza... I'd love to hear how that meeting goes, if you wouldn't mind sharing it with us.

[/ QUOTE ]

no problem. it's complicated a little by the fact that massachusetts won't let you get high deductible catastrophy-only insurance, but i'll give a trip report. pm me if i forget.

Re: Not just another question about \'going pro\'
 

Hey man, good luck with whatever you choose to do. That said, I dont know if you've read these already - Ed Miller has some good articles that should help you make a decision.

http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/articles.htm

Try not to mind the goofy picture.

Re: Not just another question about \'going pro\'
 

[ QUOTE ]
So let me get this straight you have one kid and want another one soon and you are willing to risk everything playing poker. To be blunt -you are nuts to put your family at risk to play a game. If you were a 20 year old kid with no responsibility then I would say knock yourself out BUT come on lets put a little thought into this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not trying to single this out, but this isn't a 'going pro' thread. That part of the equation there is already a lot of good literature on and quite honestly I have all I need to make an informed decision on if I believe I can make it or not.

My concern is addressing 'other expenses' since I have a family. I already do significant freelance software work and have been a winning poker player for 2+ years (I was primarily a cash game player who dabbled in MTTs until recently). My non 'real job' income far outstretches my income from my 'real job'. I go to my 9-5 job because:

1) I enjoy it
2) I enjoy the benefits and stability it gives me

I've been considering more and more cutting out the 'real job' later next year though because I want to be able to spend more time with my family and there are some other things I would like to do with my time.

My financial situation is really none of your concern, but I appreciate your concern in my family affairs. Trust me, I would NEVER put my family at risk any more than absolutely necessary.

Thanks to those of you that pointed out a few resources I could use to find the information I needed. I'll re-evaluate my options when March comes around and see where it takes me.

-Rizen