How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

I am curious to see what type of responses everyone gives here.

What amount of money would you need to average per day playing poker to quit your regular job and become an online poker pro.
By quitting your job you will be losing health benefits and the office enviornment where you have social interaction. At the same time you will no longer have deadlines or have to commute to work.

Is it $150 a day? $250 a day? $1K a day?

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

For someone who have a decent paying job I think It would be about 500$ / day, five hours par day. Below that I think you are better part time if you dont hate your job.

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

I suppose it depends, if your 21 and never had a job 100 a day feels great. Alot better then your friends working at costco.

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

$500/day x 200 days/yr = $100,000

I think for many people that estimate would be very high(unless you are talking canadian$). According to the US census Bureau , the mean household income in the US for 2000 was only $56,604 with employed males median salary being only $27K. Which means there's a lot of people out there living on very little....

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

[ QUOTE ]
$500/day x 200 days/yr = $100,000

I think for many people that estimate would be very high(unless you are talking canadian$). According to the US census Bureau , the mean household income in the US for 2000 was only $56,604 with employed males median salary being only $27K. Which means there's a lot of people out there living on very little....

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I was talking about quitting a decent paying job, in my definition its a job who pay about 50k per year. I need at least to make double of that to quit and turn pro.

A lot of people who turn pro say its a grind and all. Its true if you quit your job when you are making 30 $ per hour playing poker. Then you have to play a lot of hours and you have a difficult time to grow a bankroll and some savings.

When you are making 100 $ / hour and more, poker is no more that much of a grind, but a way to make a lot of money, save and invest. You dont have to play 35 hours per week to pay your bills. Also, it usually mean that you have a big bankroll who can confort you for the bad months or to take some vacations.

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

Many people with the ability to be good at poker would also be good at high paying jobs. I know as a software engineer, there's almost no way I could quit and play poker for a living.

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

A consistent $200/day playing less than 5 hours would do it for me.

Would mean time and money to travel, perhaps to go back to school.

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

Here's what I recommend you do. Calculate how much you earn per hour of work. Say you make $50k/year at your current job. That comes out to about $24/hr ( ($50k/52)/40) ). Now, when you can earn $96/hr at poker and have $50k saved, you can consider quitting your job.

That might sound really high, but let me explain. First, you should have a year's worth of living expenses saved. I know people recommend 6 months, but to be safe, you want more. Second, unless you are a machine, it's very unlikely that you'll be able to play 40 hours of poker a week. 20 hours per week is much more likely. Don't forget that you will also be introducing new expenses, such as additional taxes and medical insurance. You also need to be growing your bankroll while you play and sticking some of your winnings away in long term savings for the future.

Take it from someone who took the leap a bit prematurely. You'd much rather be overbankrolled and have more savings than you'll need than to be underbankrolled and have to worry yourself sick over every downswing.

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

Some good articles by Ed Miller on the subject.

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

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A consistent $200/day playing less than 5 hours would do it for me.

Would mean time and money to travel, perhaps to go back to school.

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Assuming a 5-day week, that's $50K per year pre-tax. Yeah, that'll really make you a world taveler.

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

Costco hot dogs rule, tho. I love sour kraut!

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

NPA Ed Miller hits the nail on the head.

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You have a good job that you like. Are you about to get a promotion? Could you see yourself in ten years doing the job you’re doing now? Don’t quit. Good jobs are hard to come by, and, sooner or later, you will want probably one. Building a career is more important than realizing your short-term poker fantasy. In other words, if you are stacking boxes at Walmart, quit. If you are CTO of a tech company and love your work, please don’t quit.

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Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

$50 000 a day

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

This is a great topic!

Calculating what you currently earn/hr is a great start. And translating that into what you would need to make per hour figuring that you are not going to play 40hrs/week is an important step. I would also encourage people to calculate what they are currently spending(keep track of everything for a month -it's a great eye opener), what expenses they will be incurring with out a job(health care, retirement saving, DSL, etc), what expenses will be less without a job(commuting, work clothes, lunches out), and also what expenses will now be tax deductible as a poker pro(DSL, new computer, vegas trip that you would take anyhow). Analyze it like it were a business you were going to start(that is really what you are doing).

Many businesses fail because they don't have enough funds to keep them going through the hard times. Since only a experienced, winning player is going to seriously consider going pro, it should be safe to assume that you already have a sufficient roll.

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have $50k saved

you should have a year's worth of living expenses saved. I know people recommend 6 months, but to be safe, you want more


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Many people actually reccomend 3-4 months of a safety net in savings, but Pokerace is right, as a poker pro, you should have more to accomodate downswings and any possible emergency. Use the figure your getting from tracking your spending for a month. If your making $50k a year, your living expenses are not $50k per year(if they are, you DEFINITELY shouldn't quit your job), they are are your take-home pay(gross minus taxes) minus your savings. From there, figure at least 6 months, preferably more...and put it somewhere that earns interest yet you could pull a month's expenses out at a time without a problem.

You also need to figure in what your long term goals(buying house, family, etc) are and what you are going to do if/when poker falls out of favor. Yeah, there will always be a ton of low limit games, but there was just a post the other day in one of these forums about 15/30 games being harder to find.

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Quote:


$500/day x 200 days/yr = $100,000

I think for many people that estimate would be very high(unless you are talking canadian$). According to the US census Bureau , the mean household income in the US for 2000 was only $56,604 with employed males median salary being only $27K. Which means there's a lot of people out there living on very little....




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I was talking about quitting a decent paying job, in my definition its a job who pay about 50k per year. I need at least to make double of that to quit and turn pro.



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That's what I'm saying - most people are not making over $50k yr in their jobs. But what you say about making MORE per hour playing poker than at your job is very good advice!

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

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Some good articles by Ed Miller on the subject.

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These articles rock!

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

Dude! You seem very excited! YEAH!

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Kyle

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

Location plays a huge part in playing for a living. I started playing for income at 18 (two years ago) and it doesn't take much to survive here in Arizona. Keep in mind I had no HS diploma or college to back me up, so anything I made in poker was going to be better than a minimum wage job.

Arizona cost of living is very low. A good apartment on a decent side of town runs between 500-900 /month. Not having kids is a big plus too. Your family /location and a number of factors are questionable. The very best jobs here pay 15$ an hour. The worst 5.35

I can make a few grand a month and be happy. More is better but I don't need bundles of cash. If I lived in New England than that'd be a different story.

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am curious to see what type of responses everyone gives here.

What amount of money would you need to average per day playing poker to quit your regular job and become an online poker pro.
By quitting your job you will be losing health benefits and the office enviornment where you have social interaction. At the same time you will no longer have deadlines or have to commute to work.

Is it $150 a day? $250 a day? $1K a day?

[/ QUOTE ]

$100 a day, and cutting back from 40 hours at my job to 20, or maybe 25, would be awesome. Play 5 days a week averaging 100 a day, and work 20 hours at my job. At 40 hours, and taking as much work as I can in those 40 hours I make between 2k and 2.4k per month. Cutting back to say 25 hours, and putting in the time to do a fun "job" with 15-25 a week, with 2 days off - great. I can handle $2900-3000 a month gladly. At that point I could still give myself time off from poker to still really enjoy the game, taking 2 days off a week.

<shrug> This question isn't really about turning pro, it's about what you have when you don't turn pro. If you've got a great paying job, you'd be a fool not to stick the job out. If you make [censored], but manage to acquire money on the poker table and make yourself have a little bit better life because of your *skill*, well that's the way the American Dream is supposed to be. Using a skill to carve yourself out a great life the American Way. Earning it.

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

$100/day was enough for me to quit my PhD program

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

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I suppose it depends, if your 21 and never had a job 100 a day feels great. Alot better then your friends working at costco.

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I'm 21 too, but 100/day is not even close to 'feel great'. To go pro I think I'd want to do 200/day.

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

I gave a fairly glib answer before, so a little more detail. Ed Miller's thoughts on the matter are pretty definitive though.

For me, to go pro, I'd want to play no more than 20 hrs a week. I make close to $100k as an engineer, counting health/disability insurance, holidays/vacation pay, etc. So, we're talking I'd need to make about $2k a week at poker, in 20 hours. So, $100/hour.

If I could 2-table 15/30 6-max at 2BB/100, that'd be about $120/hour. I'm nowhere near being that good. I found that personally, running 4 tables is too frantic. Add to that I'm married with kids and the best play time is at night when they're around, I *MUST* be able to handle side distractions while I play, which means fewer tables.

Now, what do I give up?

I have a stable job, good insurance, and paid vacation time. I've completed my Masters recently in software engineering and picked up enough skills to really work myself into an lead/architect position in the next few years. I can pretty safely assume pay raises, while in poker there is no yearly raise. It's also a job that requires you stay current. If I went pro as a poker player, my ability to go back to being an engineer when the poker boom is over in 5 years is limited. I'd have a really tough time convincing employers I was worth the kind of money I'd need.

Instead, my goal is to play part time, wait until the kids get through college, and maybe build up a big enough bankroll and enough skill that I could think about retiring faily young (late 40's) and play poker for a living. This also lets me see if I even care to play in 10 years.

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

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A consistent $200/day playing less than 5 hours would do it for me.

Would mean time and money to travel, perhaps to go back to school.

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Assuming a 5-day week, that's $50K per year pre-tax. Yeah, that'll really make you a world taveler.

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Yes, in fact it would.
I've been all over the world on far less than $50k/year.

Are you one of those people who can't imagine travelling without $200/night hotels, room service, and cab rides everywhere?

I'm more of a bathroom down the hall, Indian takeout, Metro pass sort of guy myself.

Last trip to London cost less than $2k for me and my niece, inlcuding airfare from the American South.

...and a consistent $50k/year on part time hours would mean I could go back to school with financial worries and still have Summers off to travel. If I want to take a trip, I can always play a bit more for a couple weeks to pay for it.

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

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Second, unless you are a machine, it's very unlikely that you'll be able to play 40 hours of poker a week. 20 hours per week is much more likely.

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I play more than 20 hours/week now with a 40+ hour/week job.

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Second, unless you are a machine, it's very unlikely that you'll be able to play 40 hours of poker a week. 20 hours per week is much more likely.

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I play more than 20 hours/week now with a 40+ hour/week job.

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I have averaged over 50 hours/ week with an ~40 hour/week job over the last 3 months.

No wonder I am tired.

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

I love all the people who refer to $50k/year as a "decent" paying job and $100k/year as a "good" paying job.

$50k/year is more than most Americans have ever made, and $100k/year is far more than they ever will.


I'm not advocating quitting a good job to grind out $10/hour bonus whoring, but keep in mind that in most of the country $50k/year jobs are very difficult to find.

Often it's a choice betweek poker and $10/hour or less doing some tedious crap job you hate.

One big advantage of poker, of course, is that you can make just as much living someplace with a low cost of living as in a big city. Some of you probably pay more in utility bills than I pay in rent.

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

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No wonder I am tired.

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http://www.stopdrugs.org/images/crack.jpg

I hear this helps.

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Kyle

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

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[ QUOTE ]
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Second, unless you are a machine, it's very unlikely that you'll be able to play 40 hours of poker a week. 20 hours per week is much more likely.

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I play more than 20 hours/week now with a 40+ hour/week job.

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I have averaged over 50 hours/ week with an ~40 hour/week job over the last 3 months.

No wonder I am tired.

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Some people can play more than 20 hours a week, some can't.

Before going pro, I was playing about 20 hours a week. After going pro, I found it was really hard to play much more than that each week.

If you force yourself to play a lot, you may end up getting burnt out and find yourself not able to play at all. I learned this first hand.

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

I'm planning on saving 2 years worth of cash beforee I take the leap. Your post leads me to believe that I might be a little premature here...

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

Two years worth of expenses will be plenty and is probably overkill. Better safe than sorry though.

After that, you need to make sure you can make enough at poker to cover your expenses and taxes, and to also grow your bankroll. You'll want to move up in limits to give yourself raises as often as you can.

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

Actually, I was thinking that I'd be living off of the two year's worth of expenses that I save. Then everything I do with poker is building for a third year, and so on.

Because I have a family, I'd rather live off of guaranteed money than play for our nut every month (even with a year of backup cash). Going broke is not an option when I've got (other) mouths to feed.

But I suppose if I was single, 1 year would be plenty.

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

That would be fine too, as it's accomplishing the same thing.

It sounds like you are willing to do what is needed to provide for your family which is good. With 2 years worth of expenses, it's nearly impossible for you to go broke if you are a winning poker player.

I also recommend that you pay off any debt that you may have in order to reduce your monthly expenses as much as possible.

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

Whoa. I was going to ask you, PokerAce, why the hell you were having a serious forum conversation with yourself. Then I took a closer look at your avatar and realized it was two different avatars.

That's all.

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

$500 a day

Right now I make about 65k a year at my job and I hope to make an additional 25k a year in poker making this 90k a year keeping my job. I am about 13 years away from retirement(at age 45, present age 32) and have a pretty decent medical plan which I have to think would add at least 10k to this. If I were to go pro I would want at least 6 weeks off a year which would mean I'd have to make a 100k in 46 weeks. That brings me to $434/day. However, considering that I would likely get promotions in the next 13 years and the security of my job is nice I bring that up to $500 a day. I doubt I'll ever get good enough to go pro.

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

$1000-1500 a day. Seriously the opportunity cost of not starting a career or having residual income is worth at least that much. The no job security or benefits and large financial swings are also major issues.

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

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For someone who have a decent paying job I think It would be about 500$ / day, five hours par day. Below that I think you are better part time if you dont hate your job.

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This sounds about right...if I quit my job and played 5/10NL live 5 days a week, full sessions I would want to clear ~2K/week to live comfortably.

I plan on moving to vegas next year but I will play poker only in a part-time spectrum since it would get very monotonous.

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

[ QUOTE ]
For someone who have a decent paying job I think It would be about 500$ / day, five hours par day. Below that I think you are better part time if you dont hate your job.



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LOL LOL LOL.....

Now thats hillarious....I lived in Montreal for like 3 yrs and VERY few people not mention french people make 500 a day after taxes. Something like 220k per annum Canuckian(320 days per yr...exchange...). You can live so well in Montreal as a single man for like 80K canadian it is scary.

You can also have sex with alot of hot chicks and probably still collect Social insurance and get paid to learn French.

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

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For me, to go pro, I'd want to play no more than 20 hrs a week.

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I dont get it....did like on the 2+2 gang say this in one of their obscure poker essays volume 14 books...because of the pros I know and have talked to as beginners they play-played in excess of 70 hours a week. Not only did they kind of receive a perverse pleasure from this but im sure it does wonders for live reads....

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

$150/hr * 30 hrs/week * 40 weeks/year = $180,000 = £100,000 tax free.

Spend £25,000/year
Save £75,000/year

Completely own a house in 3 years.

This is my plan. I plan to quit my job in 1 years time (when I should be very financially stable). The major gamble is that the games stay as good for the next 4 years. After that it's plain sailing.

Re: How much $ per day for you to turn pro?
 

[ QUOTE ]
$150/hr * 30 hrs/week * 40 weeks/year = $180,000 = £100,000 tax free.

Spend £25,000/year
Save £75,000/year

Completely own a house in 3 years.

This is my plan. I plan to quit my job in 1 years time (when I should be very financially stable). The major gamble is that I'll be commiting tax fraud . After that it's plain sailing.

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Am I reading this right? Maybe things are different in the UK. I wish you all the luck, bro. But please dear God don't get caught.