omfg
 

i am running super bad, but i am trying to keep a level head. what is the proper river play here? CO is like 60/8 in 60 hands. MP is loose and passive.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, BB calls, MP calls, CO calls.

Turn: (10 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, MP calls, CO calls.

River: (13 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO 3-bets</font>, Hero lets out a string of profanities and does what?

Re: omfg
 

Calls and sees KT. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

What's his post-flop aggression like? It might be good to bet/call the river instead of 3-betting as you didn't fill up and all.

Re: omfg
 

Calls.

Re: omfg
 

[ QUOTE ]


What's his post-flop aggression like? It might be good to bet/call the river instead of 3-betting as you didn't fill up and all.

[/ QUOTE ]

He didn't 3-bet, CO did.

Re: omfg
 

WHERE ARE YOUR READS FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.
(by which I mean, what are MP's stats?)

Anyways,

readless I call, though it could be a cap. I think a fold is out of the question. MP could have 2 pair or 33, CO probably has 2 pair. If MP raises QQ preflop, I think you're ahead more than enough to cap this.

Re: omfg
 

[ QUOTE ]
WHERE ARE YOUR READS FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.


[/ QUOTE ]

uh, CO is like 60/8 in 60 hands. MP is loose and passive.

Re: omfg
 

With that flop action, i'm not putting them on T8 or KT. I'm thinking that one of them has 33 and the other hit 2 pair somewhere. I don't think I can find a fold here, and I can't really put them on hands that beat yours (except a possible 99 that was overplayed on the flop).

I call and i'm not surprised when I win this at least 1/5 times.

-d

Re: omfg
 

are you DERG? what is up with your name changes? did you piss off a mod?

Re: omfg
 

i missed the stats in your OP, but then realized I wanted more, so I edited. Sorry. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Re: omfg
 

[ QUOTE ]
i missed the stats in your OP, but then realized I wanted more, so I edited. Sorry. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

He's loose passive, as noted in the post..

Re: omfg
 

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i missed the stats in your OP, but then realized I wanted more, so I edited. Sorry.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



He's loose passive, as noted in the post..

[/ QUOTE ]

yea I got that, my mistake. But I think it's important to know how passive he is preflop, as to whether he raises QQ and JJ preflop. I think that is the deciding factor for the river cap.

Re: omfg
 

cap it. What about MP and CO's flop play implies they have a straight? If they have a higher set so be it.

Re: omfg
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


What's his post-flop aggression like? It might be good to bet/call the river instead of 3-betting as you didn't fill up and all.

[/ QUOTE ]

He didn't 3-bet, CO did.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh, whoops. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Re: omfg
 

If you're beat here, that's life. at least call

Re: omfg
 

Hero caps and laughs when CO flips over J9.

Re: omfg
 

I just call the flop. youve got a bettor and a raiser, why scare the hell out of them with a cap? MP may do it for you which equals a yummy turn. There is no big draw so a free card isnt likely to be taken, and with a passive MP he'll prolly gladly call 2 cold on the turn when you c/r, or you can donk a benign looking card and hope it gets popped again.

on the river, im hard pressed to put either one of them on the straight given the flop, but I wouldnt be suprised to see it, cuz well its 3/6. I doubt you were ever thinking fold, if so, no way in hell. If I thought MP would fold to my cap, then id call, if not then I prolly just say "[censored] it" and cap.

re-omfingg-sults
 

i am running super bad, but i am trying to keep a level head. what is the proper river play here? CO is like 60/8 in 60 hands. MP is loose and passive.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, BB calls, MP calls, CO calls.

Turn: (10 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, MP calls, CO calls.

River: (13 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO 3-bets</font>, Hero lets out a string of profanities and does what?

I assumed I was beat by some uber retarded crap as neither of these guys was all that aggressive, but i couldn't bring myself to fold. Capping here seemed absurd. I called. They both had J9o. I win. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: re-omfingg-sults
 

[ QUOTE ]
They both had J9o.

[/ QUOTE ]

OMFG! gh

Re: re-omfingg-sults
 

I don't think capping is too absurd, though I probably wouldn't. One thing a lot of bad loose players do: overvalue two pair. KT is totally unreasonable given the flop action. A bigger set is pretty much all I'd fear here.

Re: omfg
 

[ QUOTE ]
I just call the flop. youve got a bettor and a raiser, why scare the hell out of them with a cap? MP may do it for you which equals a yummy turn. There is no big draw so a free card isnt likely to be taken, and with a passive MP he'll prolly gladly call 2 cold on the turn when you c/r, or you can donk a benign looking card and hope it gets popped again.

on the river, im hard pressed to put either one of them on the straight given the flop, but I wouldnt be suprised to see it, cuz well its 3/6. I doubt you were ever thinking fold, if so, no way in hell. If I thought MP would fold to my cap, then id call, if not then I prolly just say "[censored] it" and cap.

[/ QUOTE ]

i never considered a cap. it was call or fold. either way i was saying [censored].

Re: omfg
 

The fact you never considered a cap and calls it absurd is part of the reason you're "running bad."

Re: omfg
 

[ QUOTE ]
The fact you never considered a cap and calls it absurd is part of the reason you're "running bad."

[/ QUOTE ]

im not sure how one has anything to do with the other. i suppose the cap did enter my mind, but given my reads it seemed -EV, thus absurd.

Re: omfg
 

[ QUOTE ]
The fact you never considered a cap and calls it absurd is part of the reason you're "running bad."

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think so. This type of hand comes up like once a week at most.

Re: omfg
 

[ QUOTE ]
The fact you never considered a cap and calls it absurd is part of the reason you're "running bad."

[/ QUOTE ]

I think maybe the fact the he is running bad is the reason he never considered a cap.

Re: omfg
 

There is almost no way either person has a straight given the flop action. If they are insane enough to raise the flop with KT then they are insane enough to raise the river with 27o.

The only thing you have to fear is a higher set. I suppose someone could have a higher set, but as a general rule of thumb, never fear set over set. Especially try given the preflop action. And you would only have to win this hand 33% of the time for a cap to be profitable. (edit: This assumes everyone comes for the ride) I would cap this and expect to win it 70% of the time.

Missing value bets is as bad as paying off value bets. This particular situation is rare, but it implies that you're missing value because you're fearing monsters.

Re: omfg
 

[ QUOTE ]
There is almost no way either person has a straight given the flop action. If they are insane enough to raise the flop with KT then they are insane enough to raise the river with 27o.

The only thing you have to fear is a higher set. I suppose someone could have a higher set, but as a general rule of thumb, never fear set over set. Especially try given the preflop action. And you would only have to win this hand 33% of the time for a cap to be profitable. I would cap this and expect to win it 70% of the time.

Missing value bets is as bad as paying off value bets. This particular situation is rare, but it implies that you're missing value because you're fearing monsters.

[/ QUOTE ]

if i cap, am i getting 2 overcalls? I doubt it. But I sure am getting called if I'm beat.

Re: omfg
 

You called them loose. what makes you're think MP is folding for 2 more in a huge pot? CO is certainly calling for 1 more after he 3 bet the river.

Re: omfg
 

[ QUOTE ]
You called them loose. what makes you're think MP is folding for 2 more in a huge pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

i also called them passive......

Re: omfg
 

Not to be results oriented, but they actually don't seem that passive based on the flop play. But even so, passive spring to life with plenty of hands you beat.

Re: omfg
 

Caps.

Re: omfg
 

I agree with you, JJ is the only hand he can feasibly be behind here, I would also cap, and expect both to call with JX or 33.

Mack

Re: omfg
 

[ QUOTE ]
Caps.

[/ QUOTE ]

The flop action says it all.

Re: omfg
 

Is it the latest fashion to not post AF? even if you've got 20hands atleast post it for us to use if we want to.

Umm i think it will be capped, I dunno if you're good enough to call this.


19:2 to call? Bleh call it.

Re: re-omfingg-sults
 

[ QUOTE ]

I assumed I was beat by some uber retarded crap as neither of these guys was all that aggressive, but i couldn't bring myself to fold. Capping here seemed absurd. I called. They both had J9o. I win. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

Hero caps and laughs when CO flips over J9.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sigh, if only I were so visionary when I'm actually playing [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: re-omfingg-sults
 

2 pair is so much more likely here than a straight or over set. If one of them has KT you can add them to your buddy list and chalk this pot up to finding a great fish friend. definitely cap this for value.

Re: omfg
 

hahah, man have I been here about a zillion times...
I call the 3 bet, people overplay there hands all day at this level but even if you think your beat, the overcall is still profitable imo... I think youll be seeing two pair type hands, no way this moron hit the str8, QQQ is possible but unlikely....
this is just ugly
lemme know what showed down...
cdl
sucks bad

Re: omfg
 

I dont see how you can put them on KT or T8 with the flop action..

Re: re-omfingg-sults
 

hell ya, this is what I like to see, and expect to see, not even a toddler holds on to 8/10 here for the str8 and these morons holding 99 are slim, so nice cap, calling the 3 bet at least is good..the cap seems better against these goons
GL in the future, get outta that slump
cdl

Re: omfg
 

Not capping here is bad.

On the river, hands that got there are T8, KT, 99, etc. If there was any kinf of flush draw on the flop I would probably just call the river, but i'd say you lose to a straight here almost never based on the flop agression. Same thing with 99 - if these guys aren't raising 99 preflop then they aren't raising it on the flop.

That being said, if I was running bad I'd just call here, which is terrible, but I like to be honest in my posts. But the difference between a call and a cap is 1 BB for you and 2 more when they both call and one guys shows his slow played 33 and the other guy craps himself with QJo.

There was a post in High Stakes from BK that I think is relevant here where "skp" makes an interesting point about how actions on the river representing a hand are not really relevant if the rest of the hand doesnt add up. If the BB 3 bets out of the blue, I consider just calling - but based on the flop action I think it is better to cap here.

Re: omfg
 

PokerBob - As I mentioned before, I feel your pain and am grinding my way back via the 3/6 (and on other sites too).
Good for you for posting hands and trying to 'patch things up' as it were.
Me: I'm just trying to read and study more and learn by absorption.


Anyway....even if you think capping is over-zealous I think I spotted a little flaw in your thinking that I disagree with:

[ QUOTE ]


if i cap, am i getting 2 overcalls? I doubt it.

[/ QUOTE ]



I don't know why you would doubt this.
If they have J9 or something (as they did) there is every reason to believe they just would not be able to lay-down 2-pair. They might even be stupid enough to not lay-down AJ or KJ here (if they had gotten very weird with it).


While you can expect your opponents to 'usually' play normally...I have found that it is also best to expect the unexpected at 3/6 from your sillier opponents.

I've had hands similar to this where it was capped PF and crazy stuff post-flop, and he hits his gutshot by the river with J8 or something to bust my set.
It IS possible imo. It's a weird game.