QQ hand at an insane 1/2 party table that left me wondering...
 

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Villain raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls, CO folds, Villain calls, BB calls.

Flop: (16.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Villain raises</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 caps</font>, Villain calls, BB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (18.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Villain raises</font>, BB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls

River: (24.25 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Villain bets</font>, BB folds, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 24.25 BB


OK, well this table had been making my head spin. extremely loose, and some major donks in this hand. i limped because the Villain had been raising constantly, and i knew i could get a 3 bet in here. on the flop i was just going for a c/r, but then Villain decides to go crazy (it was just hard for me to give him that much credit, seriously total donk). i decided my overpair was good here(and drawing to the third nut flush). now if i thought i was in a pot with tough players i wouldve already folded, but as ive been saying, this table was particularly terrible. i hit my set on the turn, but i guess i got cold feet when the mega donk Villain once again raised. the river im calling down with what is probably the best hand, but the insane amount of strength shown had me thinking i was toast here. do i just fold this on the flop? i might have played this totally wrong, and it confused me, so thats why im posting it here.

Re: QQ hand at an insane 1/2 party table that left me wondering...
 

You played this one very poorly. The PF limp sucks at a table full of donks who will coldcall any two cards. Not 3-betting the turn is bad times as well. Even if someone flipped up the nut flush you should still 3-bet as you will fill up more then 20% of the time. Push those equity edges dude.

Brad

Re: QQ hand at an insane 1/2 party table that left me wondering...
 

I'm 3-betting the turn.

Re: QQ hand at an insane 1/2 party table that left me wondering...
 

Given your read on villain, why would you NOT raise preflop? Having him 3 bet it and then you capping it would probably be the most optimal given you have just a great starting hand.

Re: QQ hand at an insane 1/2 party table that left me wondering...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Given your read on villain, why would you NOT raise preflop? Having him 3 bet it and then you capping it would probably be the most optimal given you have just a great starting hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

hmm, i dont know. i didnt see him 3 betting pre flop much, mostly raising if it was limped to him.

Re: QQ hand at an insane 1/2 party table that left me wondering...
 

i guess i was right in thinking i f'ed this one up. so i guess the l/r was a stupid tricky move at the wrong kind of table? i guess i was trying to get advanced with the Villain.

Re: QQ hand at an insane 1/2 party table that left me wondering...
 

Raise PF and try to take your QQ against just the villian. Don't let those others opponents in the hand. Your hand loses value the more multiway it gets, and it's always good to take a big pocket pair against a maniac with noone else in the pot because the money that he puts in we'll sometimes equal what 4 weak passive opponents would put in and your hand will hold up more often against one opponent. Try to get the pot heads up with him PF or charge people to play along. PF limping with QQ is ALWAYS bad in my opinion (at least at small/micro limits).

Re: QQ hand at an insane 1/2 party table that left me wondering...
 

I also think 3 betting the turn is in order. You have all our board-pairing outs (plus the last Q), and even a heart may give you the winning hand.

Re: QQ hand at an insane 1/2 party table that left me wondering...
 

also, i wanted to raise the turn, but didnt for some reason. stupid move on my part. man, i still need to learn a lot about this game.

Re: QQ hand at an insane 1/2 party table that left me wondering...
 

I completely agree. The only hand that beats hero's top set is a made flush.

You may not even be pumping your "boat draw" on the turn - you may be value raising the best hand. Shiggity shiggity shwa.

Re: QQ hand at an insane 1/2 party table that left me wondering...
 

so you guys wanna see the hand results? they're pretty lollerskates. or will that make me look like the donk?

EDIT: Nevermind, ill just shut up now. thanks for the help guys.

Re: QQ hand at an insane 1/2 party table that left me wondering...
 

Yeah, post em. Too late to be results-oriented now.

Re: QQ hand at an insane 1/2 party table that left me wondering...
 

Villain shows [ Qs, Td ] two pairs, queens and tens.
Hero shows [ Qd, Qh ] three of a kind, queens.
UTG + 1 doesn't show [ 3d, 3c ] three of a kind, threes.
MP3 doesn't show [ 4h, 6c ] a pair of sixes.

well, i was behind dudes set, but i dont know what the hell the other two were doing

Re: QQ hand at an insane 1/2 party table that left me wondering...
 

UTG+1 never put a raise in with his set, but he checked the flop and it came back 3-bet. I bet he shat in his pants.

Re: QQ hand at an insane 1/2 party table that left me wondering...
 

MP3 raises and caps the flop with that. BUDDY LIST.

Re: QQ hand at an insane 1/2 party table that left me wondering...
 

[ QUOTE ]
MP3 raises and caps the flop with that. BUDDY LIST.

[/ QUOTE ]

done. i buddy listed half the table within 10 minutes of playing there.

Re: QQ hand at an insane 1/2 party table that left me wondering...
 

[ QUOTE ]
UTG+1 never put a raise in with his set, but he checked the flop and it came back 3-bet. I bet he shat in his pants.

[/ QUOTE ]

too bad i suck out like a champ

Re: QQ hand at an insane 1/2 party table that left me wondering...
 

OK, I see "raise PF to get the villain HU" and then "against donks who will cold call with any 2 cards...". Well, it can't be both. If you know that your opponents are coming in the hand regardless, the only reason to raise is to get more $$$ in the pot. If that is the case, the l/r is fine. You got 3 bets from everyone PF instead of 2. (You better have a good read on the Villain to make this work, looks like you did.)

You are right about not raising the turn though. Big mistake. If you're beat at the moment, you're beat. You still have plenty of outs, but I still think you're ahead. When you spike the set, make anyone calling with the bare A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (and anyone else on a draw) pay big to see the river.

Re: QQ hand at an insane 1/2 party table that left me wondering...
 

i'm capping the turn, leading the river and calling a raise. given your read, he could be doing this with the lone A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

Re: QQ hand at an insane 1/2 party table that left me wondering...
 

*Grunch-approved reply approach*

why are you limping this UTG? just raise it

flop is good

its 5handed, you not only have the best hand a good % of the time, but will improve to a boat 3.6/1 giving you value in reraising even if someone has a made K or Ahigh flush

Re: QQ hand at an insane 1/2 party table that left me wondering...
 

Assuming your read is good on Villain I guess the preflop limp reraise is ok, but I probably wouldn't do it. I hate the flop checkraise attempt after threebetting preflop and being called down, I don't think you want to give a lone Kh or Ah a chance to draw at you for free. They're correct to call, but at least give them the opportunity to make a mistake. Also, your limp reraise caught a bunch of players who could conceivably have other draws out against you that you don't want getting a free look at the turn.

Villain's raise on the flop is meh, but the cap from MP3 is really worrisome. I think you're behind at this point, and with this many players still around I'm not sure your Qh is good. On the turn you pick up outs, but I don't know if betting is the right play here, I'd be inclined to check call. Having a read on MP3 would be nice here, and where did he go for the river? Folded to Villain's raise?

-Tim

[edit: I obviously didn't take into account the number of players on the turn and have undoubtably been playing sets too passively against straight/flush possibilities.]

Re: QQ hand at an insane 1/2 party table that left me wondering...
 

[ QUOTE ]
i limped because the Villain had been raising constantly,

[/ QUOTE ]
This is exactly the reason you should have raised UTG, and hope that Villain 3-bets so you can cap it PF.

You must 3-bet this turn against a maniac Villain raise. The chance to fill up plus the need to charge anyone (MP3) who might be on a draw plus the probability that you are ahead here make it mandatory.

If Villain caps the turn then I'd still bet/call the river.

Re: QQ hand at an insane 1/2 party table that left me wondering...
 

I haven't read any replies yet. Hopefully this isn't too far off. I would probably raise PF but if your read on the villian is that accurate then the limp is good. I think you have to lead the flop since the pot is big enough you can really protect your hand. The rest of the hand I would play the same.

Re: QQ hand at an insane 1/2 party table that left me wondering...
 

Raise it preflop and given villain the chance to 3-bet or cap it for you.

Bet, raise, re-raise, cap the flop. Sounds like this guy wants to give away his chips.

I probably 3-bet the turn, though I'd be very wary of the other 3 players still in it here. Villain's raises would not be getting much respect from me, especially after I turn top set.

River: I bet. If villain raises, I probably 3-bet him. If someone else raises, I choke and call.

Re: QQ hand at an insane 1/2 party table that left me wondering...
 

Well with 10 outs to the full house or quads on the river if you are fearing a made flush could you not raise the turn for value with all those players in the hand with you.