And I put him on 24offsuit too!
 

what the hell is going on here?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, BB folds, UTG calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, SB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (11 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, UTG calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

River: (15 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, MP1 folds, Hero calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 21 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
SB has Qh 7d (three of a kind, queens).
UTG has 4d 2s (straight, six high).
Hero has Jh Qc (three of a kind, queens).
Outcome: UTG wins 21 BB. </font>

decided to treat this as WA/WB on the turn, I was way ahead of the guy I was worried about at least.

Re: And I put him on 24offsuit too!
 

[ QUOTE ]
decided to treat this as WA/WB on the turn,

[/ QUOTE ]

This may be the billionth hand posted on twoplustwo in which money was burned excessively, and the poster excuses himself by saying "I was WA/WB" when this doesn't even come close to fitting.

Re: And I put him on 24offsuit too!
 

this guy knows how to play. he [censored] up the flop royally enough so that his turn call was correct.

Re: And I put him on 24offsuit too!
 

other than the questionable call preflop, I don't know where i'm burning money unnecessarily in this hand. I'm not nearly a good enough player to fold the river, I'll give you that. And maybe it's not WA/WB, but I wanted one bet and one only to go in on the turn and river.

Re: And I put him on 24offsuit too!
 

RAISE THE TURN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: And I put him on 24offsuit too!
 

ya since no one raised preflop id raise the turn. omfg wtf was UTG doing. i would have punched him in da mouf. god what a fish

Re: And I put him on 24offsuit too!
 

[ QUOTE ]

decided to treat this as WA/WB on the turn, I was way ahead of the guy I was worried about at least.

[/ QUOTE ]
i am going to be a good guy and give you a really good piece of poker advice.
FORGET EVERYTHING YOU EVER LEARNED ABOUT THIS "WA/WB" BS. YOU ARE COMPLETELY MISAPPLYING A COINCEPT THAT SUCKS TO BEGIN WITH. YOU PLAY IN THIS HAND IS VERY VERY HORRIBLE.

Re: And I put him on 24offsuit too!
 

[ QUOTE ]
i am going to be a good guy and give you a really good piece of poker advice.
FORGET EVERYTHING YOU EVER LEARNED ABOUT THIS "WA/WB" BS. YOU ARE COMPLETELY MISAPPLYING A COINCEPT THAT SUCKS TO BEGIN WITH. YOU PLAY IN THIS HAND IS VERY VERY HORRIBLE.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, see, either he's way ahead or way behind. The queen in his hand gives him a very strong hand for this board of QQ7. His hand is not vulnerable to overcards. Personally I think he played it a little too aggressive here. Just make sure one bet goes in on each street. You were "way ahead" in this situation and just unlucky that someone happened to hit their .1 outer. However, if you had been "way behind" you would have lost a lot drawing dead.

Go back to posting in microlimits flawless. Maybe they'll like your crazy chip spewing there. This forum is for the "big dogs" of 2/4.

Re: And I put him on 24offsuit too!
 

[ QUOTE ]
what the hell is going on here?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, BB folds, UTG calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, SB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (11 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, UTG calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

River: (15 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, MP1 folds, Hero calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 21 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
SB has Qh 7d (three of a kind, queens).
UTG has 4d 2s (straight, six high).
Hero has Jh Qc (three of a kind, queens).
Outcome: UTG wins 21 BB. </font>

decided to treat this as WA/WB on the turn, I was way ahead of the guy I was worried about at least.

[/ QUOTE ]

Get the sand out of your vagina and raise the turn

Re: And I put him on 24offsuit too!
 

Thank you, that's what I was trying to say in the first place.

Re: And I put him on 24offsuit too!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thank you, that's what I was trying to say in the first place.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please tell me you are joking because you have an insane amount of pot equity and dead money on this turn.

Re: And I put him on 24offsuit too!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thank you, that's what I was trying to say in the first place.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you hate money?

Re: And I put him on 24offsuit too!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thank you, that's what I was trying to say in the first place.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please tell me you are joking because you have an insane amount of pot equity and dead money on this turn.

[/ QUOTE ]


"No, see, either he's way ahead or way behind. The queen in his hand gives him a very strong hand for this board of QQ7. His hand is not vulnerable to overcards. Personally I think he played it a little too aggressive here. Just make sure one bet goes in on each street. You were "way ahead" in this situation and just unlucky that someone happened to hit their .1 outer. However, if you had been "way behind" you would have lost a lot drawing dead."


This is how I felt at the time. If that's terribly wrong so be it, I don't claim to be a terrific player. I capped the flop, which screams Q good kicker. SB still leads the turn which tells me that he either thinks that he has a better kicker or just hit his worse kicker and that's why I don't raise. My name is Jason, and I'm a little weak on later streets...there, I've got the first step out of the way. BTW, if I raise the turn and get 3-bet, what now?

Re: And I put him on 24offsuit too!
 

Bayes' theorem dude: there's one queen left in the deck which means the likelihood of him having one is extremely small. You need to start thinking in terms of putting players on hand ranges and probabilities of hands and less "oh my god, he might have a queen" Play some six-max...it will help you grow a pair on the later streets:)

Re: And I put him on 24offsuit too!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Bayes' theorem dude: there's one queen left in the deck which means the likelihood of him having one is extremely small. You need to start thinking in terms of putting players on hand ranges and probabilities of hands and less "oh my god, he might have a queen" Play some six-max...it will help you grow a pair on the later streets:)

[/ QUOTE ]

You see, I interpret that differently. I think that everytime he bets and raises it is more likely that he has the other queen or a hand that beats mine:

his flop 3 bet, likely to have a queen, but since he's in the SB, prolly a small kicker.

he calls cap, tells me nothing

he leads turn, tells me he could have a queen with a better kicker or a boat now so I just call

if I raise the turn and he 3-bets, I assume he's got me beat and i'm drawing thin.

that's the way I look at the theorem anyway.

Re: And I put him on 24offsuit too!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Bayes' theorem dude:

[/ QUOTE ]
this is possibly a concept that is even more misapplied than WA/WB... bayes thoerem is even less relevant to this hand than WA/WB concept.
gl, youll need it.

Re: And I put him on 24offsuit too!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i am going to be a good guy and give you a really good piece of poker advice.
FORGET EVERYTHING YOU EVER LEARNED ABOUT THIS "WA/WB" BS. YOU ARE COMPLETELY MISAPPLYING A COINCEPT THAT SUCKS TO BEGIN WITH. YOU PLAY IN THIS HAND IS VERY VERY HORRIBLE.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, see, either he's way ahead or way behind. The queen in his hand gives him a very strong hand for this board of QQ7. His hand is not vulnerable to overcards. Personally I think he played it a little too aggressive here. Just make sure one bet goes in on each street. You were "way ahead" in this situation and just unlucky that someone happened to hit their .1 outer. However, if you had been "way behind" you would have lost a lot drawing dead.

Go back to posting in microlimits flawless. Maybe they'll like your crazy chip spewing there. This forum is for the "big dogs" of 2/4.

[/ QUOTE ]
i think u got me dude. nh.

Re: And I put him on 24offsuit too!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bayes' theorem dude:

[/ QUOTE ]
this is possibly a concept that is even more misapplied than WA/WB... bayes thoerem is even less relevant to this hand than WA/WB concept.
gl, youll need it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the encouragement jackass, I'm doing just fine without perfect knowledge of all of these abstract theories and BS. So I might have misplayed a hand, I'm sure it's never happened to you. My winrate over a significant sample is about 2BB/100, so I guess I'm doing okay. The only reason I even played this hand is b/c my VPIP is only about 14.5 and I've been looking for spots to increase it a little.

Re: And I put him on 24offsuit too!
 

So what if you think you might be behind on the turn. Theres a great chance you are ahead and you have players in between to make up for when you arent. I cap the turn given the chance.

When pots are large and multiway, generally you should get agressive and try to win it instead of watching it slip by when a flop-peeler like the sb finds a gutshot on the turn and doesnt know about partial outs.

To the SB:

Personally, I wouldnt even complete this preflop, but depending on how bad your opponents are and how likely they will pay you off, this can be OK.

On the flop: I know you like to see the turn card, but two other players seem to have really good hands. Also, when players are raising back and forth with others between them on the flop, it often represents a flush draw or trips in this case, meaning that your runner-runner outs are tainted.

On the turn:
Some players like to semi bluff raise their gutshots on paired boards. However, given the substantial action on the flop, I like that you choose not to semi bluff raise.

On the river:
While you hit your miracle donk-hand, I still wouldnt bet out. Since the mp bet out last hand, you can safely c/r the field. However, the way you played it, I would have probably 3bet the river, since your opponents will have trouble reading your hand and be completely obsessed with their pitiful trips

Re: And I put him on 24offsuit too!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bayes' theorem dude:

[/ QUOTE ]
this is possibly a concept that is even more misapplied than WA/WB... bayes thoerem is even less relevant to this hand than WA/WB concept.
gl, youll need it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Was this directed at me or original poster? I was just talking about calculating the probability of a given hand given an opponent's raise to get out of that 'I must be beat' mindset.

Re: And I put him on 24offsuit too!
 

There was no preflop raise, It is highly unlikey you're up against a better queen. I would put him on a worse queen and jam that pot to the river. If he has a worse queen then yes your WA but guess what? he's not folding.
The entire point of the concept is don't make only the hands you can beat fold. There are tons of hands you can beat that are going to the river with you no matter how much raising you do. It does not apply here.

Re: And I put him on 24offsuit too!
 

Squeek, call me the next time you see this donk at the tables. If I could play with this guy often, I'd never have to work again! mewhhwhahhahahahha

Re: And I put him on 24offsuit too!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Go back to posting in microlimits flawless. Maybe they'll like your crazy chip spewing there. This forum is for the "big dogs" of 2/4.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL

Re: And I put him on 24offsuit too!
 

my guess is the other guy in the hand that folded was on a diamond draw so you had to dodge alot of cards on the river anyways. Sure you might have been behind in the 1st place but getting the other 2 out or making them make bad calls on turn when you reraise is more beneficial.

I remember a situation in TOP very similar with 4 players where you might be behind to one person but a reraise squeezes out the other 2 players on draws. Be glad you have utg at your table and remember his name and play with him again,you will get that money back, make good reraises in the future.