I\'m definitely over my head...
 

and you can laugh at me...

apologies in advance for the format, and I didnt know how to adjust for a shortstack opponent here... no read, whats a good default line?

Seat 1: BradMajors
Seat 2: MopITup
Seat 3: B_O_K_E
Seat 4: stoxtrader4 [ A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ] ($11,263.00 in chips)
Seat 5: CMsuited
Seat 6: wannaabe
Seat 8: the_lark ($1,871.00 in chips)
Seat 9: mih2099
Seat 10: bedeviling ($5,025.00 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
bedeviling posts blind ($25), BradMajors posts blind ($50).

PRE-FLOP
MopITup folds, B_O_K_E folds, stoxtrader4 bets $150, CMsuited folds, wannaabe folds, the_lark calls $150, mih2099 folds, bedeviling calls $125, BradMajors folds.

FLOP [board cards K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img],6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ] (pot = 500)
bedeviling checks, stoxtrader4 bets $400, the_lark calls $400, bedeviling folds.

TURN [board cards K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img],6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ]
stoxtrader4.... (pot is 1300, opponent has approx 1300 behind)

Re: I\'m definitely over my head...
 

check fold looks good

Re: I\'m definitely over my head...
 

Fold equity=0
Odds=not there
Play=check/fold

Re: I\'m definitely over my head...
 

This is not a 100% fold unless we know opponents stats, how often does he call this flop and you're ahead?

Re: I\'m definitely over my head...
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is not a 100% fold unless we know opponents stats, how often does he call this flop and you're ahead?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not often enough.

Re: I\'m definitely over my head...
 

Who likes checking the flop to avoid this situation?

Re: I\'m definitely over my head...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Who likes checking the flop to avoid this situation?

[/ QUOTE ]

crickets chirping

Re: I\'m definitely over my head...
 

[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: I\'m definitely over my head...
 

i probably just push and hope for the best. your fold equity is not great but its not 0% either. some of the time he will have been peeling on the flop to see if you stopped betting. some of the time he will have a flush draw and your winning. you will often have an overcard or 2 if he ends up calling with a lower pp. some of the time he will have a K or a boat and things arent so great but i dont think that is the case often enough to check/fold.

Re: I\'m definitely over my head...
 

prob c/f. Hate it, but maybe that's why greenstein recommends the shortstack and so many give others fits playing it.

Re: I\'m definitely over my head...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Who likes checking the flop to avoid this situation?

[/ QUOTE ]

not me at all, although OP's bet size did leave him in a predicament. (sp? its late!)


I dont htink checking is the answer,though

Re: I\'m definitely over my head...
 

yeah i was thinking bet enough to make it push/fold for short stack, especially because an overbet here isn't so bad anyway as the only normal stack is OOP.

Re: I\'m definitely over my head...
 

Yeah, I check this flop quite a bit.

Re: I\'m definitely over my head...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fold equity=0
Odds=not there
Play=check/fold

[/ QUOTE ]

i think the shortie most likely has either a K or pocket pair here, and is willing to go broke with both. From my experience with short stacks, once they call a flop bet and the pot approaches the size of their stack, they rarely fold. Him being on a flush draw is unlikely. I think any bet is -EV, and you don't have odds to call a bet. Pray he really is bad and gives you a free card, or just fold to a bet. I would consider betting river (about 600-750) if he checks turn though.

Re: I\'m definitely over my head...
 

we need some reads on villain. If this is UB 25/50 i'm not folding this hand on the turn. your equity against 88 is huge; and you almost have odds to push- so you need almost no fold equity. I think he also has 89 or clubs here a fair % of the time. I think i might actually chk/call.

Re: I\'m definitely over my head...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Who likes checking the flop to avoid this situation?

[/ QUOTE ]

not me at all, although OP's bet size did leave him in a predicament. (sp? its late!)


I dont htink checking is the answer,though

[/ QUOTE ]

what's a better bet size? why?

Re: I\'m definitely over my head...
 

i dont raise pf w/ this hand early. i like to get dead limpers in w/ me im hitting to the nuts on all counts. then when the flop comes like this ill check raise.

Re: I\'m definitely over my head...
 

bet less on flop if you are betting.

Re: I\'m definitely over my head...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Who likes checking the flop to avoid this situation?

[/ QUOTE ]

I know some tight passive people that do, problem is, they lose at poker and not win, I prefer to play winning poker [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: I\'m definitely over my head...
 

[ QUOTE ]

I know some tight passive people that do, problem is, they lose at poker and not win, I prefer to play winning poker [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Myself, limon, flawless_victory.

Re: I\'m definitely over my head...
 

If you check and lark bets, it's a c/r all-in, right? What if bedeviling bets?

Re: I\'m definitely over my head...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Who likes checking the flop to avoid this situation?

[/ QUOTE ]

not me at all, although OP's bet size did leave him in a predicament. (sp? its late!)


I dont htink checking is the answer,though

[/ QUOTE ]

what's a better bet size? why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Other people say to check, and that has alot merit. I suspect thats slightly results oriented thinking, (oh no,we missed our draw andare in a horrid stack committment t pot size ratio!) but I wouldn't check because it's easy to fold alot of hands which if you check will not fold later. (if that makes sense...)

Your hand has alot of equity on this flop, and you've built the pot to 10bbs. It's certainly worth stickng your neck out to fightfor it... if you did havea "read" that the_lark wll autobet his button, checkraising (and putting him all in once he bet) probably becomes a default / optimal play.

I'd bet more or less, normally in this spot I'd pot+ it, although this is also a seemingly good spot (once I can just take the entire hand in, I probably would click bet too fast to realize the better play!) but a small underbet.

Re: I\'m definitely over my head...
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you check and lark bets, it's a c/r all-in, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

[ QUOTE ]
What if bedeviling bets?

[/ QUOTE ]

He already checked.

Re: I\'m definitely over my head...
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you check and lark bets, it's a c/r all-in, right? What if bedeviling bets?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know what hand people are representing if they check-raise the flop all-in.
You have just checked a fairly draw heavy flop 3 way.
If lark's been playing very aggressively then maybe he'll give you credit for playing a big hand this way, otherwise your line looks a lot like a draw and he could reasonably call with Kx.

I guess an advantage this line has over betting the flop is the awkward situation you are faced with when lark calls your flop bet.
Check-fold and you might be laying down the best hand, pushing in probably won't fold out many better hands.

Re: I\'m definitely over my head...
 

[ QUOTE ]
If lark's been playing very aggressively then maybe he'll give you credit for playing a big hand this way, otherwise your line looks a lot like a draw and he could reasonably call with Kx.

[/ QUOTE ]

I reckon it's better to get it in as a coinflip and maybe (and who knows he might fold) then to risk getting flat-called behind and missing the turn ~3/4 of the time

Re: I\'m definitely over my head...
 

If lark has been playing very aggressively a c/r would be great with AK. Now that I think about it (and after realizing that bedeviling checked already), I like checking this flop.