PP 10/20 Flopped Set, Too much action?
 

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">BB caps</font>, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (10.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, Hero calls.

River: (13.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Hero...

Final Pot: 17.50 BB

I was planning on raising the turn with the initial call. Got so much action on the flop that i figured I was against J7/JJ/77/Club draw.

Both villians are SLAGs.

Re: PP 10/20 Flopped Set, Too much action?
 

Why would call in this position pre-flop with 22?Anyway, I would raise on the flop. The pot is already big enough to start protecting, &amp; you might learn something about where you're at.

Re: PP 10/20 Flopped Set, Too much action?
 

is this a joke post?

Re: PP 10/20 Flopped Set, Too much action?
 

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is this a joke post?

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Lol, no. Although I already told Stacy that he played it like a giant 50/3/0.2.

Yeah I would have raised the flop, but I can see waiting to 3bet after the donk bet into the pfr. I guess you were waiting to raise the tur...Oh.

Anyway, I'd call the river. I think it's profitable. I mean they're Slags not tags. I think you get shown AJ, KK-AA and 7x enough here. If it comes back capped, I swear and throw something.

-Craig

Re: PP 10/20 Flopped Set, Too much action?
 

StacysMom probably played this one in the car.

Re: PP 10/20 Flopped Set, Too much action?
 

I don't like any of this.

First, you shouldn't be limping UTG+1 with 22.

Second, I would likely raise the flop to put pressure on club draws. But I can see slowplaying this in some cases.

Third, if you decided that you're going to slowplay it on the flop, you must raise the turn. Or are you now afraid that someone has a bigger set? If so, what the hell are you doing playing 22 in that position?

And because you were weak tight on every street other than preflop, you are now faced with a difficult decision on the river.... (Hint: call)

Re: PP 10/20 Flopped Set, Too much action?
 

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I don't like any of this.

First, you shouldn't be limping UTG+1 with 22.


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In many games, behind a loose limper, this is a fine and commendable play.

Re: PP 10/20 Flopped Set, Too much action?
 

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I don't like any of this.

First, you shouldn't be limping UTG+1 with 22.


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In many games, behind a loose limper, this is a fine and commendable play.

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You are correct, but in most online games, limping with 22 in that spot is -ev in my opinion. In real life, If I was dealt 22 utg+1, my forehead would start sweating and my heart would start throbbing with ecstacy and I would never fold this monster knowing the kind of pot I could win in the typical loose B&amp;M game. But online games usually are not loose enough and too aggressive preflop for 22 to be a profitable call in my opinion.

Re: PP 10/20 Flopped Set, Too much action?
 

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I don't like any of this.

First, you shouldn't be limping UTG+1 with 22.


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In many games, behind a loose limper, this is a fine and commendable play.

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In many games, no, in a 35/8 game, okay sure. commendable...uhh never.

Re: PP 10/20 Flopped Set, Too much action?
 

You're in a difficult position only because you played it so poorly on every other street.

Deuces are a clear fold in all but the loosest and most passive of games preflop. I sincerely doubt that this table met that criteria. Also, that's not a flop where slowplaying is advisable. If you _did_ plan on slowplaying that on the flop though, just calling on the turn is even worse ESPECIALLY when you have a caller between you and the bettor. I can _maybe_ understand not raising if you're looking for overcalls (even still, i'd raise in almost all circumstances), but when you have everyone by the balls, not raising is retardedly bad. You missed 2 bets when your hand was both an almost certain heavy favorite, and when you were still vulnerable.

Then you're faced with two bets in front of you on the river. The thing about concealing hte strength of your hand is that when you're shown strength on the river, you don't know the relative strength of their cards. From their perspective, they have no reason to believe you have a set and just filled up. You'd have to be _terrible_ to not raise the turn if you had a set. Consequently, UTG's raise _may_ just mean that he has trips and is raising for value against the SB. After all, he has no good reason to believe that anyone there is stupid enough to not raise a set on the turn. SB is almost certainly on an overpair or a strong jack and will show the hand down, so he has every reason to raise. Your hand reeks of a flush draw, and he probably doesn't anticipate your overcall, so there's almost no value in him just calling there. Trips gets more value from raising.

I definitely don't think raising would be wise here. If anything, _you_ want the overcall from the SB who you almost definitely have beat, and who _will_ call one additional bet, but not two. There is a chance that you're behind UTG, so raising him would be pointless. You lose less when you are behind, and win more when you're ahead by calling.

Calling is pretty much the only thing you can do, unless you've got some strong reads to suggest that UTG is a rock and/or passive absent of EXTREME strength.

If it gets 3bet and capped behind you, it's probably a fold. If there's a 3rd bet after i called two, i'd probably have to call, but i wouldn't be too pleased about it.

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I was planning on raising the turn with the initial call. Got so much action on the flop that i figured I was against J7/JJ/77/Club draw.


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That's an unrealistic range of hands.

More likely than not you're facing an overpair, a strong jack or a strong queen from the SB. UTG is anyone's guess. The raise on the river suggests that it includes a 7, but that he hasnt filled up. If he had a hand that could potentially fill up, he'd have raised the turn.

When you go heavy on the flop and check/call the turn, it usually means that you wanted to _show_ extreme strength, but were actually not that strong. It either suggests a flush draw (where you may even have a marginal edge in a field of 3 if it's to the nuts) or a strong but vulnerable made hand.

For all i know, he may have held J/7. That isn't typical though.

Re: PP 10/20 Flopped Set, Too much action?
 

Thanks for the advice. Although I dont appreciate the stupid/retard comments. I know this hand was poorly played, as I don't post the ones I know I played well.

I don't see how people have objections to limping 22 after a limper. No limper, I fold this. But if there is another limper it seems easy to get odds as limping encourages limping.

I was planning to raise the turn, but the action on the flop scared the chit out of me. Either one of them could have held JJ/77/J7. I figured they both couldn't be betting clubs, and one of em was gripping one of those 3 hands.

Putting them on these hands is the reason I didnt raise the turn, as JJ/77 come back over me.

General consensious seems to be these fears where unfounded. Am I the only one who gets scared on that flop action? If so, it won't happen again.

Re: PP 10/20 Flopped Set, Too much action?
 

Is Stacysmom a he?

Re: PP 10/20 Flopped Set, Too much action?
 

Well, look at it from their perspective.

Most people probably call a 3bet/raise and attempt to trap the third player in between with a checkraise on the turn with top set.

Most people _do_ play an overpair,or TPTK fast on the flop and slow down on the turn.

The only action you should fear with a set (when no flush or straights are out yet), is heavy action you'll get on the turn, but even then, you're as likely to be getting 3bet by top two as you are with an overset (and occasionally an overpair), making a cap more than reasonable even with bottom set. The thing about capping (unlikely 3betting) is that you're not vulnerable to a 5-bet, so you dont have to use the same mentality as 3betting a river, say. In cases where you can be reraised by stronger hands, it's a win 1, lose 2 situation. Capping a turn is win 1, lose 1 situation.

Retard is my term of endearment. Well, maybe not. But i call everyone a retard when they do something i disagree with, so you shouldnt be offended.

Re: PP 10/20 Flopped Set, Too much action?
 

fold preflop unless the table is loose and passive. Rather unlikely Party 10/20 (it does happen tho). I can see UTG with 77 here but he could have AA,KK limped preflop. Set over set is not that unusual, but it is usually horrible on the stack. (unless you have the higher set, natch, which with 22 you never can have). Call the river.

Re: PP 10/20 Flopped Set, Too much action?
 

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I don't see how people have objections to limping 22 after a limper. No limper, I fold this. But if there is another limper it seems easy to get odds as limping encourages limping.

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I limp with all pairs after one limper every time in this game. I filtered in PT on Pairs, Not a Blind, and Limped with PC, and I do show a small loss with 22. However, on looking at the hands, I see I only flopped one set in 35 tries. Only in seven of the hands was it raised behind me. Obviously if I flop four sets as expected, instead of just one, I would be doing much better with this hand.

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I was planning to raise the turn, but the action on the flop scared the chit out of me.

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I wouldn't sweat this flop action at all unless it came from passive players. There will be plenty of pumping draws, protecting top pairs, and just plain attempts to run over people going on here.

The first flop call is OK. Pot is small, two others left to act who might peel with very little, and the draws will still be around to pay for them when you raise the turn. But once it's raised and re-raised, it's time to wake up. Not having done that, definitely raise the turn. Don't worry about them coming back over you until they actually do it.

On the river I still think you're ahead most of the time, just call here. It's much easier for BB to have one J with a high kicker (or even suited with a deuce - Edit: Oops, ignore this, three of the deuces are out too) than to have JJ or J7. And it's much easier for UTG to have just the 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] with a high or connecting club than to have both 7s.

Re: PP 10/20 Flopped Set, Too much action?
 

hey flawless, what is your problem?

is everything you say negative?

if you dont like the post, dont reply.

Re: PP 10/20 Flopped Set, Too much action?
 

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I don't see how people have objections to limping 22 after a limper. No limper, I fold this. But if there is another limper it seems easy to get odds as limping encourages limping.

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I limp with all pairs after one limper every time in this game. I filtered in PT on Pairs, Not a Blind, and Limped with PC, and I do show a small loss with 22.

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I did the same filter and I come out from 56 times, 7 times flopped a set, of those 7 times won 5 and lost 2. The two I lost were to a straight and flush respectively. Of the rest I won unimproved but once, otherwise I'm usually folded at the flop. Overall I have 22 as a loser, I play it pretty tight these days.

Re: PP 10/20 Flopped Set, Too much action?
 

BB has AJo and UTG has A7 clubs, take it down!

Re: PP 10/20 Flopped Set, Too much action?
 

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Is Stacysmom a he?

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As much as pokerjo.

Re: PP 10/20 Flopped Set, Too much action?
 

I would have raised the flop. You still need to protect bottom set on a 2-flush board. Do u want a lone [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] to get a redraw on the turn? Or T9 to hit there gutshot? Then, I reevaluate based on the action after my raise. I might call a 3-bet and raise turn, or cap, or call the cap. You need to raise the turn, why do u fear monsters when loose players are betting in this inherently aggressive game? On the river, you need to call. I can see a loose UTG bluff raising on the paired board a dubious holding, even a busted FD.

Re: PP 10/20 Flopped Set, Too much action?
 

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The pot is already big enough to start protecting,

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Protecting it from what? This isn't the reason to raise the flop.

b

Re: PP 10/20 Flopped Set, Too much action?
 

Preflop: fine

Flop: ok. I'd have raised and jammed the hell out of it, but I can see waiting.

Turn: RAISE THE DAMN THING!!! What the HELL are you waiting for!?! If 3 bet, THEN slow down.

River: I'd call. If UTG had a set, he played the turn very odd. Especially given that you just coldcalled the whole flop which looks like a flush draw. If he played Q7, J7 or 72 from EP, more power to him. I've seen many players like to smooth in AA or KK preflop in their blinds in this type of situation so they are possibilities for BB.

It's ok to lose alot of chips with a set. It happens.

b

Re: PP 10/20 Flopped Set, Too much action?
 

Ram and jam. If you got out flopped by another set, so what. It happens. Get as much as you can in on the flop, to better define your hand.

Re: PP 10/20 Flopped Set, Too much action?
 

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Ram and jam. If you got out flopped by another set, so what. It happens. Get as much as you can in on the flop, to better define your hand.

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This is the type of flop where hands (player tendencies aside) won't really be defined until the turn. You can jam many hands on this flop. Rainbow flop would be much more defineable.

You also don't necesarily want to have your hand defined yet.

b