Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

Since guys that go to the casino probably have more than their share of interaction with police officers, I decided to cross-post this in OOT and here.

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4am this evening, my buddy and I were walking and talking. We do this maybe 3-5 times a week, depending on availability and amount of stuff to talk about. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

We tend to get pulled over a lot, which is both time consuming and stressful, but understandable. Basically, walking at night is atypical and therefore cops will pull you over just for being outside. It bugs me, but it's life.

BTW, I live in Canada.

About a month ago I read an article in The Post about a case heard by the Nation Supreme Court: a boy, aged 15, in Edmonton had been pulled over by cops and searched. It was found that there was no basis for their arrest or their search, and the charges (Marijuana possession) were overturned.

Furthermore, in the article it stated that the legal definition of arrest, in Canada, is (approximately) "any time that you either can not leave in the presense of a police officer or feel as though you can not leave."

(I'm sure this can be expanded to consider civilian arrest.)

So, being sick and tired of being pulled over all the time, I decided to try this out.

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A police car pulled up to us, we walked over and I said, "Good evening officer."

He asked where we were going and I replied, "No comment." He asked where we were coming from and I again replied, "No comment."

He got pretty pissed, saying that if there were two people out walking at 4am there'd better be a comment, and that we were required to give him answers and stuff. I basically kept to my "no comment" line during this exchange, even though he was swearing at us and calling us "dicks".

I was pretty surprised by the lack of professionalism and the amount of confrontation shown by the officer (whereas I was being really polite and my expression was really neutral).

He got out of his car nearly immediately. He asked me at one point to take my hands out of my pockets. I don't think they're legally allowed to command you to do this, but because I didn't want him to feel as though he was in physical danger, I obliged him.

Near the very start of the conversation, he asked me to put my hands on the hood of the squad car. I looked him in the eyes and basically explained that I felt uncomfortable with the situation, that I wanted to leave, that the legal definition of arrest is whether or not I can leave or if I feel as though I can't leave, and asked if I could leave. He said no. I asked if I was under arrest. He said no. He asked if I was in Law and Securities at school, I replied "No comment." He asked if I worked, I replied, "No comment."

He again called us dicks for not answering questions and not allowing him to "investigate a complaint" (we'd seen no one during our walk, so we're not sure if there really was one), and not identifying ourselves. He'd never asked that, so I told him that I'd be willing to identify myself.

He asked if I had ID and I said no, (legally, you're only required to give them your name and address, and in practice you generally wait for them to run the information through their system). He took down our names and called it in. I mentioned that I hadn't seen anyone and asked him if there was someone he was looking for. He replied, "How about this? No comment."

After our named came back that indeed we were citizens of Canada and such, he let us go, not before lecturing us (calling us dicks multiple times during this lecture) on not being dicks, basically. I told him that he shouldn't talk like that and that he should conduct himself professionally. He started to say something but stopped, and I further stated that I was a citizen, and was conducting myself as a citizen, but that he was a professional. He told us to leave, and I told him (again, politely) to have a good night as we left.

I swear to God there were no mocking tones used. I was pretty nervous: enough that I almost cracked a smile once because of the adrenaline, but I managed to keep it down and keep my face neutral the whole time.

So, if you're in Canada, and you're pulled over, unless you've been caught doing something retarded (and would therefore be looking for leniency), this is a decent MO if you feel as though your privacy has been invaded and don't particularly desire to co-operate.

I see it as having negative consequences if at a later date you require assistance from the police and they won't give it to you, which could happen, or if they catch you later and decide to max the fines or whatnot on whatever they can.

It took a while, but not much longer than a standard interview (at least, not much longer than an interview in which they take and process your ID).

--Dave.

Re: Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

Incorrect use of the word oblige and term M.O.

You were a dick with the "No comments" remarks, and this didn't need to be x-posted here.

Re: Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

[ QUOTE ]
Incorrect use of the word oblige and term M.O.

You were a dick with the "No comments" remarks, and this didn't need to be x-posted here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well...

I don't particularly see how it's his business as to where I'm going. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

[ QUOTE ]
Incorrect use of the word oblige and term M.O.

You were a dick with the "No comments" remarks, and this didn't need to be x-posted here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure that "I obliged him" meaning

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=oblige

"To do a service or favor: The soloist obliged with yet another encore. "

is correct.

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I'm not quite as sure about MO though.

Re: Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

[ QUOTE ]
Incorrect use of the word oblige and term M.O.

You were a dick with the "No comments" remarks, and this didn't need to be x-posted here.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're an even bigger nit than Dave! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Incorrect use of the word oblige and term M.O.

You were a dick with the "No comments" remarks, and this didn't need to be x-posted here.

[/ QUOTE ]Don't worry, handsome, take it as a compliment.

You're an even bigger nit than Dave! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Why was this thread cross-posted from OOT? [n/m]
 

.

Re: Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

[ QUOTE ]
I was pretty surprised by the lack of professionalism and the amount of confrontation shown by the officer

[/ QUOTE ]

Not much experience with the police, I assume .

Re: Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

Im glad this cop is doing his job despite it being harder having to deal with a smartass. Next time answer his questions quickly and cooperate and be grateful we have cops that give a [censored].

Re: Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

To quote the great Eddie Murphy, "Might I suggest the use of your night stick, officer?"

Re: Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

Why not just answer his questions? He has a hard job. Sure he was eing unprofessional, but why poke this particular hornets nest with a stick?

Re: Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

nevermind i'll put this reply in the bigger thread. but i don't see what this has to do with B&Ms.

Re: Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

Just say your in Law School. Thats what I do. They hate that and tend to respect you a bit for it. I hate the Bacon...

Re: Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

Someone could have seen you form their house and made a complaint.

I think you're out of line here. Just tell the truth.

Everyone hates cops until they need one.

Re: Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

I'm not a police officer or lawyer (and I didn't stay at Holiday Inn last night), but to me, what you did was no better than Entrapment.

In My Not-so Humble Opinion, you were acting totally within your rights and abusing them at the same time.

If I were a judge I'd admonish the officers for letting you bait them. They gave in to their baser instinct and jumped right into the pissing match you started. They would have been better served by smiling and treating you ultra-respectfully and following "proper procedure" to the letter.

Then I'd find you guilty of interfering with a police officer and put your pitiful butt to work at community service during 60% of every free minute you have for the next 6 months.

You sound, to me, exactly like the guy who screams every time some pissant's "rights" are "violated," and yet you chose to abuse your own. Is it any wonder law enforcement people feel like nobody really gives a damn? You simply prove their point.

Since you like to walk around at 4 a.m., isn't it be nice to know there are police doing their duty at that time, not parked somewhere sleeping or, stereotypically, at the local donut shop? Personally, had it been me, I'd have gone out of my way to make friends with these guys. Then, whenever they saw me, they'd probably wave and drive on by. I'd feel comfortable knowing they were "on the job" and available if I ever needed them.

Now, will somebody please deal the cards?

Re: Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

I am a lawyer, a prosecutor to be specific, and that is not even close to entrapment. at least under U.S. law, the cop can ask questions, but he didn't have to answer, and in fact, just asking him to show his hands was improper.

Re: Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am a lawyer, a prosecutor to be specific, and that is not even close to entrapment. at least under U.S. law, the cop can ask questions, but he didn't have to answer, and in fact, just asking him to show his hands was improper.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you'll go back and re-read my "opening statement," perhaps you'll see I was not saying the officer was "entrapping," rather, the complainant was acting in a manner construed, by me, as an effort to "entrap" the officer.

I've taken a lot of deep breaths and am passing up the opportunity and suppressing my extremely strong urge to take a lot of shots at you, sir.

Re: Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

It's "I obliged."
and you don't really describe M.O.s (main objective)

Re: Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

Why is the officer asking him to show his hands improper?
If he was going to interview him doesn't the officer have a right to safety?

Re: Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

M.O. - Modus Operandi, mode or method of operation (i.e., one's characteristic behavior).

Re: Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

Sounds to me like you're saying that cops are cops are cops, dicks that is, and it doesn't matter where you are, cops are cops and dicks are dicks, and cops will be dicks and dicks will be cops. Sounds about right.

I got pulled over a few years ago. He said "you didn't signal at that last turn." He was full of something brown and stinky, I DID signal, he was just "fishing." He asked for our IDs, we obliged. He asked where we were going, "work" is all I said. He asked me to get out of the car. I obliged. He asked if I had drugs or guns etc. I said "no." He said "can I search your vehicle?" I said "you don't have probable cause to search my vehicle." He then replied in an angry tone "I didn't ask if I had probable cause, I asked if I could search your vehicle." I said "I just told you NO."

He was pissed. He went into his car and I could hear him calling for the dog to be brought over to check our car for drugs. He was even more pissed when they told him it would be an hour. So the dick gave up and let us go.

NEVER give cops more than the absolute minimum, and never voluntarily cooperate with them if they're fishing.

al

Re: Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's "I obliged."
and you don't really describe M.O.s (main objective)

[/ QUOTE ]

Interested re: I obliged.

The M.O. I was referring to was 'modus operandi'.

You're definitely right that you can't oblige someone though (you can oblige or not, and someone else can oblige, but you can't oblige them).

Re: Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

[ QUOTE ]
Sounds to me like you're saying that cops are cops are cops, dicks that is

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm so tempted to use Team America references here.

[ QUOTE ]
He asked for our IDs, we obliged.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now THERE'S a man who know how to use the word oblige!

[ QUOTE ]
He was pissed. He went into his car and I could hear him calling for the dog to be brought over to check our car for drugs.

[/ QUOTE ]

At eurowid.org they talk about this a bit. The basically say that as long as a police officer doesn't have probable cause to do a search he can't do it, and that includes bringing out the dogs. Two ways to get around this (to avoid giving them probable cause while denying permission) is to say that you're tired and would like to go home, or saying that you are afraid of dogs.

Re: Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

[ QUOTE ]
Then I'd find you guilty of interfering with a police officer and put your pitiful butt to work at community service during 60% of every free minute you have for the next 6 months.


[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't interfere with him at all. I just didn't help him. I identified myself when asked, and told him where I lived.

[ QUOTE ]

You sound, to me, exactly like the guy who screams every time some pissant's "rights" are "violated,"


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Well, put it this way. I'm not asking for the "right" to free ice cream or something. I'm basically asking to live without interference.

[ QUOTE ]

and yet you chose to abuse your own. Is it any wonder law enforcement people feel like nobody really gives a damn? You simply prove their point.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm 24 years old. Since age 18 I've been pulled over by the cops something like 15-20 times... It's only been thrice this summer but it seems like once a month in the summer and once per 2.5 months in the off-season in the past.

Out of these times, once was to help locate some kids that were running away from home: I obliged.

Another time, I was carrying half a bottle of zinfandel back from a party and I got a $120 fine, even though I wasn't drunk.

Every other time they've just wanted to know where I was going. On several occassions I've had them really grill me about it.

I hate it when they shine lights in my eyes, especially spotlights from cars. I can't really describe how angry it makes me or some of the things that it makes me consider. I'd certainly not choose to publish them here.

I was really happy to help out with the kids situation, but everything other than that has been halfway between bothersome and really f-king irritating, to downring invasive.

[ QUOTE ]

Since you like to walk around at 4 a.m., isn't it be nice to know there are police doing their duty at that time, not parked somewhere sleeping...?


[/ QUOTE ]

It's a beautiful thing, man. And I do like it.

[ QUOTE ]

I'd have gone out of my way to make friends with these guys. Then, whenever they saw me, they'd probably wave and drive on by.


[/ QUOTE ]

You'd be surprised how seldom this happens. Out of the 15-20 times: once. Did that make it all worthwhile? No.

[ QUOTE ]

I'd feel comfortable knowing they were "on the job" and available if I ever needed them.


[/ QUOTE ]

I am. I just don't want them to talk to me unless they have a damn good reason, and if I tell them that I'm only going to identify myself and that's it, I want them to be done with it: they know where to find me if they have evidence to arrest me, once I've identified myself.

--Dave.

Re: Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

[ QUOTE ]
Sounds to me like you're saying that cops are cops are cops, dicks that is, and it doesn't matter where you are, cops are cops and dicks are dicks, and cops will be dicks and dicks will be cops. Sounds about right.

I got pulled over a few years ago. He said "you didn't signal at that last turn." He was full of something brown and stinky, I DID signal, he was just "fishing." He asked for our IDs, we obliged. He asked where we were going, "work" is all I said. He asked me to get out of the car. I obliged. He asked if I had drugs or guns etc. I said "no." He said "can I search your vehicle?" I said "you don't have probable cause to search my vehicle." He then replied in an angry tone "I didn't ask if I had probable cause, I asked if I could search your vehicle." I said "I just told you NO."

He was pissed. He went into his car and I could hear him calling for the dog to be brought over to check our car for drugs. He was even more pissed when they told him it would be an hour. So the dick gave up and let us go.

NEVER give cops more than the absolute minimum, and never voluntarily cooperate with them if they're fishing.

al

[/ QUOTE ]

Jayz lyric can always save the day:

The year is ninety-four, in my trunk is raw
In my rearview mirror is the motherfuckin law
Got two choices y'all, pull over the car or (hmm)
bounce on the Devil, put the pedal to the floor
And I ain't tryin to see no highway chase with Jake
Plus I got a few dollars, I can fight the case
So I, pull over to the side of the road
"Son do you know why I'm stoppin you for?"
Cause I'm young and I'm black and my hat's real low
Or do I look like a mindreader sir? I don't know
Am I under arrest or should I guess some mo'?
"Well you was doin fifty-five in the fifty-four;
license and registration and step out of the car -
are you carryin a weapon on you? I know a lot of you are"
I ain't steppin out of [censored], all my papers legit
"Well do you mind if I look around the car a little bit?"
Well my glove compartment is locked, so is the trunk in the back
And I know my rights, so you gon' need a warrant for that
"Aren't you sharp as a tack! You some type of
lawyer or somethin, somebody important or somethin?"
Child I ain't passed the bar, but I know a little bit
Enough that you won't illegally search my [censored]
"Well we'll see how smart you are when the canine comes"
I got 99 problems, but a bitch ain't one - hit me!

Re: Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

[ QUOTE ]
NEVER give cops more than the absolute minimum, and never voluntarily cooperate with them if they're fishing.

[/ QUOTE ]
That advice may or may not be helpful in a foreign country where the police may or may not have a right to beat your ass for little reason.

Re: Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

[ QUOTE ]

Everyone hates cops until they need one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

In order to take actions to ensure his safety, such as ask to see someone's hands or pat them down, you need to have a reasonable suspicion that they are involved in criminal activity---specific and articulable facts. Walking on the street is certainly not enough, and even if there was a complaint, unless it was specific with a description, the alleged illegal activity being engaged in, and independantly corroborated by the police officer's observations, the officer would have no right to see his hands. of course, this applies in the United States, and not a foreign jurisdiction.

Re: Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am a lawyer, a prosecutor to be specific, and that is not even close to entrapment. at least under U.S. law, the cop can ask questions, but he didn't have to answer, and in fact, just asking him to show his hands was improper.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whether showing hands is improper or not, it is a reasonable request by the officer to ensure he was not in immediate danger. Show some empathy for a lone cop approaching 2 strangers in the middle of the nite for the sole reason of ensuring things are safe for the neighborhood.

Re: Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

I have a lot of respect for the difficulty of an officer's job, and I understand that they put their safety constantly at risk.
But they still need to obey the law, or else evidence ends up getting suppressed, etc.... The case as described by the poster isn't even a close one, the officer can ask to talk to the pedestrian, who can refuse, or not answer his questions, or not show him his hands. Of course, there might be more to the story, but I am just going on what was presented here.

Re: Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

You are a dick.

The next time someone is out of place at 4am in your neighborhood, I hope the police don't question them and they bust into your home and butt f**k you.

Maybe then you will understand a few simple things.

Next time don't be a prick, Give the man some respect and answer his questions. When he is done, thank him for his hard work and carry on with your worthless little life.

Re: Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Everyone hates cops until they need one.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Or until one of them gets killed on duty.

Re: Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

Damn Canadians.

Re: Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

Most police are the guys that picked on others in school or the guys that got picked on. Most are bullies and nothing more. I think the officer's reaction to lawful behavior is testament to that. Frustrating the cops when they are trying to harrass you is one of the most thrilling and enjoyable things in life. Man, do they get angry when you don't submit to their every whim.

"Protect and serve" is a farce. Just look at the scores of officers in the NOPD who abandoned their post to save their own butts. The US National Guard Bureau is reporting that two-thirds abandoned the force.

Re: Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

Foreign country?

I, like all Americans, think that the world, nay the universe, ends at the borders of the USA! USA! USA! (obnoxious hooting please). [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

al

Re: Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

Well, it appears both you and I are tempting fate by dumping gas on the fire here...

But I gotta admit, that was good.

al

Re: Just got pulled over by the cops while walking at night
 

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone hates cops until they need one.


[/ QUOTE ]


That about sums it up, everyone says cops suck and what not, but someone breaks into your house or threatens you with a weapon, and you cant say "thank god the cops are here" fast enough. Of course cops arent perfect, you should complain about the bad ones, but in this case he seemed like a rather good one, if I knew someone was walking around my neighborhood at 4am I would want him questioned because odds are he is up to no good.

[ QUOTE ]
Most police are the guys that picked on others in school or the guys that got picked on. Most are bullies and nothing more. I think the officer's reaction to lawful behavior is testament to that. Frustrating the cops when they are trying to harrass you is one of the most thrilling and enjoyable things in life. Man, do they get angry when you don't submit to their every whim.

"Protect and serve" is a farce. Just look at the scores of officers in the NOPD who abandoned their post to save their own butts. The US National Guard Bureau is reporting that two-thirds abandoned the force.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cop bashing great, combined with stupidity and lack of knowledge, someone give this guy the stupidest person on the planet award. First of all the cops quit because they were outnumbered badly, a few were killed because people looted the gun stores. So they were badly outnumbered and had inferior weapons, not to mention the angry mobs kept targetting them. They knew they were going to get killed and werent even going to be able to do much, thats pretty much why they quit. If you are going to blame anyone blame the government for its slow response.