party poker
 

I am convinced that this software is somewhat questionable. When I first open my account, I won like crazy. For example I would be dealt JT and have the flop come back AKQ. Lots of great starting hands that would connect on the flop. Then after I had tripled my intial deposit things went to [censored]. Playing 60 straight hands without seeing a face card. When having TPTK getting beat by a set, ect. I cashed out and waited a week and opened a new account.

They knew about my old account even though I had used a slightly different name and completely different address. Do they track by IP address???? They allowed me to close my first account and start playing with my new account.

The first 350 hands I played I won like crazy AGAIN!!! Same dam thing flopping boats, sets, ect. Tripling my deposit. However the next 350 hands went to [censored] again, always getting beat by bigger hands and having crapping starting hands.

Anyone else notice this or am I crazy?

Re: party poker
 

You are crazy.

Re: party poker
 

Until you've played 50,000 hands or so you do not have an adequate sample from which to judge. All your experiences up to this point fall in the range or normal expectation.

Re: party poker
 

This is the first time I've heard this complaint.

Re: party poker
 

i see the same thing only i play for a couple days wher no matter what you hild you flop nuts. then i go bad come back 3 weeks later and can not lose.my cousin works with computers at xerox just started playing online at part poker and says that there is a patter to the software. he does not trust it

Re: party poker
 

you know, I won like crazy on party too. I played like almost a thousand hands on there and was killing the game! then I signed up for empire (so I could play more tables), which is supposedly the same games, etc. but the software is totally different, because I've been getting rivered like every other hand!! I think that party must know I signed up for empire, and this is their way of punishing me.

--turnipmonster

Re: party poker
 

You're right. Never would happen in a real casino.

Re: party poker
 

I was talking to someone at a party the other day and she was telling me about how she suspected her roommate, an apparently somewhat dense man, of having a gambling problem. For example, offering to wager a month's rent on a game of pool, having to clear out his 401(k) to pay his bookie, that sort of thing. He said that live casinos are rigged. They let you win big at the tables early and then rig the decks/roulette wheels/dice so you lose everything back to them. She asked why he doesn't go from table to table and leave before they stack the odds. He didn't have an answer.

Anyway, consider that you may suck at poker. Good day.

Re: party poker
 

I once had TPTK and lost to a set on Party. Clearly rigged. I haven't played online poker since then. I'm no sucker.

Re: party poker
 

Its clearly rigged. I cashed out a couple of hundred the other day, and haven't won a single hand since.

Re: party poker
 

Could there be a bit of sarcasm out there!! No way.

I am going to test my theory by closing my account and opening a new one starting with 500 playing at 100nl just as before. I am going to do this 100 times so I have a big enough sample to decide if rigged or not. So far it stands at winning at first (2) busting out (0) If you don't hear back from me, you will know I have found the secret.

Re: party poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you don't hear back from me, you will know I have found the secret.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope we don't hear back for unrelated reasons.

Re: party poker
 

I think two things are true. The first is that this same exact thing happens over and over again to many, many posters. The exact same circumstances. Big runs always followed by bad ones. Big hands always holding up, then never holding up. For other things you can confidently say "where there's smoke there's fire" and will find some consensus, but not with online poker. SFER says maybe the guy just sucks at poker. That may be true. Kurn says it's typical variance. That sounds good too. The thing about variance though is that it's not suppossed to be predicatable. There's also no doubt that the software can be programmed any way they want it.

The second thing that's true takes a lot less time to say. It seems there's many, many guys making very serious money playing online poker. Paying their bills with it. If that's the case, you have to believe what Kurn said. Over the long haul, if you play well, you'll make money online.

Re: party poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone else notice this or am I crazy?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, yeah, I noticed the same thing!!!

You're definitely not crazy, it's totally true, crazy things happen in card games like poker.

I'm with you all the way; you're NOT crazy.

You might, however, be considerably dumber than average.

If we don't hear back from you we'll know that there is a beneficent God out there somewhere, one who loves us all very much (--or perhaps one intolerant of silliness, who sends speedy buses for the moment when folks like you look right stepping off of curbs).

JimmyV

Re: party poker
 

Think about it. If your the CEO of party poker your job is to make the most money possible for your company. If new players come in and get destroyed right away. There not going to play anymore. However if they come in and triple there money and then slowly lose it back. They have been given a taste of winning and might come back to try it again after busting out. What is better for party poker to have 30000 online players and allow newer players to win or just to have 4000 to 5000 very skilled players.

When I first started at PP I had tripled my money in the first four days and then the next 3 weeks or so I played about even. I played about 3000 hands during that time. I am a skilled player? No. Was I lucky at first and the luck just stop? Maybe.

When I started the new account the same thing has happend. I have tripled up in the first week and now have played about a week and stayed pretty much even. I have definitely seen a big difference in the number of good starting hands and also a big difference in the number of good starting hands that have connected with the flop. Coincidence??? I do know? But something just don't seem right.

Re: party poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
Think about it. If your the CEO of party poker your job is to make the most money possible for your company. If new players come in and get destroyed right away. There not going to play anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm. I'm thinking about it. I've thought about it. You are dumb. And it's more than grammar.

Re: party poker
 

I do not believe online poker is rigged, but I will contribute by saying that my recent Party account has been hitting flops like crazy indeed (quadrupling my deposit in one night). I haven't experienced the "censored" part yet though.

Perhaps this is luck. I've heard many people with the exact same story though, it's weird, but I guess we have to attribute this to luck, or people start playing worse because they win so much at first perhaps ?

Re: party poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
When having TPTK getting beat by a set, ect.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unreal. What kind of sick, sick, people would stack the deck against you so flagrantly? I'm taking my money out today.

Paranoia? Maybe....But Without Regulations U Can\'t Be Sure
 

Lets look at the facts.
1. Most of these on-line poker sites are based in 2nd world and 3rd world countries.
2. These sites want to make money. And many of these sites are making TONS of money.
3. There is little regulation for many of these sites.

The million dollar question is would these sites modify their software to maximize their profits?.....

Let us assume a new Poker Site wants to create crooked s/w (software) to maximize profits. What would the optimum strategy for a crooked site to achieve this?

**IMO, the crooked s/w would want to MINIMIZE the number of BIG winners and MINIMIZE the number of BIG losers. In other words, they, idealy, would want to create an atmosphere where the money gets swapped around back-and-forth with no big winners and no big losers while the sites happily collect their rakes. WHY? Big losers, who are usually poor players, will often unfairly blame their losses of the s/w whether its TRUE-or-NOT and leave the sites forever blaming the s/w instead of their poor play.

I would argue, poor players, are the bread-and-butter of poker sites. Poor players tend to give a lot of action and ACTION attracts more players. And the more players there are, the more money these sites make. To achieve this the s/w would have to be modified, to reward poor players and punish good players to even out the playing field.

In the book, "The Worlds Greatest Blackjack Book", the author tells a story where a card counter playing in a 3rd World country plays several hours and asks(and gets relectantly) as a "comp" 4 decks of cards that was being used to deal blackjack. He goes up to his hotel room and inventories the cards and discovers some Aces and 10-point cards have been removed. *By-the-way, a deck rich in Aces and 10-point cards, favors the player so if the house removes a few of these cards they can increase their profits. In otherwords, this casino was cheating to increase their profits. The point of this story is to illustrate a basic tenet of human nature. Greed.

I play lots of poker on-line, and in the year I've been playing I'm ahead a modest $2.5K. So I KNOW money can be made on-line. I concede its possible that these sites could be modifying their s/w to keep the fish happy and to muzzle the Sharks BUT ONLY a THOROUGH mathematically analyis of millions of hands could one make a honest judement.

Your feelings are NOT enough.... The fluxuations of luck in poker can fool poor players that they are the next DOYLE BRUNSON, and can make good players question their skills.... BUT... on the other hand I am CONCERNED that there is little regulation for these sites. If casinos will cheat their customers at Blackjack then it is VERY possible these poker sites could be playing games. Hopefully, some math/computer guru, will analyze this sites for a PhD thesis, and we will know which sites are honest and which sites are cutting corners....

Meanwhile, I'll still be playing on-line...

Re: Paranoia? Maybe....But Without Regulations U Can\'t Be Sure
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hopefully, some math/computer guru, will analyze this sites for a PhD thesis, and we will know which sites are honest and which sites are cutting corners....

[/ QUOTE ]

Only in clown college dude.

Re: party poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
Think about it. If your the CEO of party poker your job is to make the most money possible for your company. If new players come in and get destroyed right away. There not going to play anymore. However if they come in and triple there money and then slowly lose it back. They have been given a taste of winning and might come back to try it again after busting out. What is better for party poker to have 30000 online players and allow newer players to win or just to have 4000 to 5000 very skilled players.

[/ QUOTE ]

You do realize that when you 'slowly lose your money back', it most certainly does not go to the poker site. It goes to other players on the site. Party Poker makes money from rake. It doesn't matter to them if you win or lose as long as you're playing hands.

Party Makes $1,000,000,000 per year - why rig it?
 

Think about this. A little quick math. It's 11:40 AM and there are 3800+ tables running on Party right now.

Assuming they rake $0.50 per hand per table, and there's one hand played every minute, that's $1900 in raker PER MINUTE.

Party runs 24/7, so that's 1440 minutes per day, or $2,736,000 per day. That's just under ONE BILLION DOLLARS per year and I'm guessing my numbers are on the low side.

Why the hell would Party rig their site? If the word got out about the software being corrupt, they could instantly kiss their cool billion per year goodbye.

Re: Party Makes $1,000,000,000 per year - why rig it?
 

It's hard to admit you might be a losing player. It's easy to blame cheaters.

Re: party poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
You're right. Never would happen in a real casino.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, Casinos are rigged too. Yesterday, my first hand at the table, I get AA. AND I LOST!!

Re: party poker
 

I don’t consider myself a shitty player except I have a problem laying down TPTK and often get beat by sets. I probably need to slow down and think it through a little better. I play good enough to keep the money which I initially won. However I find it hard to significantly improve my bankroll by bluffing at pots or limping in with T3 suited. I agree that starting two accounts and having the same thing happen twice is far from a stone cold fact, but I have heard this complaint from others. Only a fool would believe that these types of place would not cheat you because they put a statement on there web page that says their legit. Take a look at Enron, InClone and Tyco International who cheated there share holders and think again.

Re: party poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
Take a look at Enron, InClone and Tyco International who cheated there share holders and think again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right. Ignore the thousands of publicly listed companies that don't cheat. Good point.

[ QUOTE ]
I agree that starting two accounts and having the same thing happen twice is far from a stone cold fact, but I have heard this complaint from others.

[/ QUOTE ]

You should look up coincidence in a dictionary. The last two trips to work I just missed the subway as I walked through the turnstile. The MTA must be out to get me.

[ QUOTE ]
I don’t consider myself a shitty player except I have a problem laying down TPTK and often get beat by sets.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not a good player but I try to flop sets. bdk3clash is a good player and he flops quads. Do you see why you're losing?

Re: Party Makes $1,000,000,000 per year - why rig it?
 

Sorry casinos have been known to cheat. That is one of the reasons why have gaming commissions...

Saying, 'why would a casino cheat because if word got it they were crooked, they would lose all their customers', assumes that people running the casinos are 100% logical. Since casinos have been caught cheating before, this fact destroys the ASSUMPTION that casinos are 100% logical and therefore act in their best interest.

Human nature hasn't changed in a 1000 years. The same motivations which causes people to cheat are prevalent in our world today.

As I said before, I play on line and I believe most sites are honest BUT.... I keep my eyes open.

As for someone doing a PhD thesis on on-line poker sites to determine their honesty, I think this would be a facinating thesis. I hope there are some "clown" colleges who will pursue this. Since billions of dollars are spent on on-line gaming, I lot of people would love to read that thesis as oppose to most of the junk that PhDs publish...

Re: party poker
 

To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't be surprised if Party's software is "tweaked". I've experienced the so-called cashout curse and the deposit boom and thought the same as you. It could also be the human brain is amazingly adept at finding patterns or themes where one doesn't actually exist. A series of coincidences can quickly be deduced as a pattern and then every future event is perceived to magically fits this pattern. Kind of a self fulfilling prophecy.

But in the end, I say WHO CARES!!! Party is the home of the most poor online players, period! So even if this conspiracy theory is correct and Party is skimming a tenth of a BB/100 from my "true" win rate, the fact that I cannot make anywhere close to my Party winrate elsewhere makes it THE place to play.

Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Re: Party Makes $1,000,000,000 per year - why rig it?
 

Dissertations aren't written for your amusement or for a wide readership. They are specialized and narrow for a reason.

Re: party poker
 

Yes, you've been cheated. I mean it can't be that you suck, or are just plain stupid, can it? Maybe you should stick to checkers or monopoly, or are dirty bastards always cheating you at that too?

Re: party poker
 

Certainly humans can be a greedy lot, and certainly big corporations and little have been known to skim. Even the staggeringly wealthy have been known to cheat a bit so they can get what really amounts to a pittance more. That having been said, online poker remains quite profitable for quite a few people (myself included), so whatever skimming that might be happening, it is just an added bit of rake. I hope this is not occurring, but if it is, it is subtle and not the "cashout curse" or "deposit boom" so many people talk about.

All of this only supports the notion that internet poker would be much better if legalized in the US and properly watched over by a gaming commission with real teeth (like a death penalty for offending sites). Unfortunately, this is not in the offing, but I would happily pay a bit more rake for this relative peace of mind.

Edit: Forgot to mention this... If you can't beat the small stakes Party games, you probably suck and need to take up a different hobby.

Re: party poker
 

I think your crazy. I have heard people make claims that on the river an ace comes to frequently which allows the bad players to win by chasing down Axo, etc. I also have hearc claims that it isn't a real shuffle and isn't really random. I have been winning, ur probably just unlucky to have a bad run of cards. Also, sometimes when people starting winning the way you describe, they begin to overplay their hands, they loosen up, and don't follow the ABCs of poker.

Re: Party Makes $1,000,000,000 per year - why rig it?
 

Yes I am aware of this. You might as well the sky is blue and grass is green. And by-the-way, you've just made my point.

My father has a PhD and a former college professor... I grew up with this stuff... It was not my intention to insult any PhDs. My point is most Phd thesis have very narrow applications. Can we talk about poker?...

Re: Party Makes $1,000,000,000 per year - why rig it?
 

[ QUOTE ]
My father has a PhD and a former college professor... I grew up with this stuff... It was not my intention to insult any PhDs. My point is most Phd thesis have very narrow applications.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow! Mine too, but he never taught. Want to compare SAT scores or something equally pointless?

What was your point? Right, online poker is rigged. Try this on: No it's not. Next.

Re: Party Makes $1,000,000,000 per year - why rig it?
 

I don't know if your intentially trying to come accross as a pompous ass....But you need to re-Read my post, for you failed to get the point.

I NEVER-EVER-EVER said on-line poker is rigged. I don't know whether it is 100% on the square or not. Because of human nature, I said it is within the realm of possibilities that the s/w could be modified to increase profits.

Meanwhile, please spare me any further lectures and platitudes...

Meanwhile I will CONTINUE to play on-line poker and read 2+2 posts that STAY on the subject of poker... And posters who express their ideas in a civil manner.

Re: party poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
always getting beat by bigger hands

[/ QUOTE ]

These are usually the one's that beat you. But watch out cause every once in a while a sneaky smaller hand will beat you too. I hate when a pair of aces loses to 7 high, I always think "How'd they do that?"

Re: party poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
you know, I won like crazy on party too. I played like almost a thousand hands on there and was killing the game! then I signed up for empire (so I could play more tables), which is supposedly the same games, etc. but the software is totally different, because I've been getting rivered like every other hand!! I think that party must know I signed up for empire, and this is their way of punishing me.

--turnipmonster

[/ QUOTE ]

Is my sarcasm-o-meter off or is this really coming from a pooh-bah?

Re: party poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
I once had TPTK and lost to a set on Party. Clearly rigged. I haven't played online poker since then. I'm no sucker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha. Word. That couldn't happen in a casino. I ain't never seen dat on WPT!

Re: party poker
 

Anyone who plays online goes through a period of distrust when they start. When I first signed up at a site I made my deposit and then withdrew $50, just to make sure I could actually get money out.

We hear complaints from people who won originally and then went through a bad stretch, simply because they are still around. The people who lose right out of the gate probably wuit and don't come back, so we never hear those stories, and the people who last a long time before their first bad run don't have anything to complain about.

THis doesn't only happen to new accounts. Last week I lost $6k between SUnday and Thursday, posting losses 4 days out of 5, the first time that has ever happened to me in 2.5 years of online play. Just when I was convinced I would never win again, I made $6,007 on Friday, my biggest single day win ever. It doesn't mean anything is fixed, those are the normal variations that are to be expected in a game of chance. You will get used to the swings eventually, but it will take a while.

Re: party poker
 

Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.