A lot of calling with JJ
UTG+1 is 14/6/1.61 but this is a limited 50 or so hands.
MP2 is 55/8/0.31 over a similar limited sample because I don't mine this level. I've only been at the table a couple orbits and haven't done much. Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (8 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, UTG+1 calls. Flop: (10.66 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, MP2 calls, Hero calls. Turn: (9.83 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, MP2 calls, Hero calls. River: (18.83 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, MP2 calls, Hero calls Let me have it. |
Re: A lot of calling with JJ
I think I would cap flop or perhaps 3-bet turn. UTG+1 could have AK with Ah. I'm not ready to give anyone credit for flopping a flush or hitting a set of aces on the turn until I get raised.
|
Re: A lot of calling with JJ
i don't like just calling on the flop, OR just calling on the turn. your equity is too high vs a flush draw esp. 3 handed so unless the guy flopped the flush you want as much going in as possible. sometimes i wait til the turn with a hand like AJ here, for obvious reasons.
to me the turn is an obvious 3 bet.. by the way, why no preflop cap? i would feel sick not putting in more action on this hand |
Re: A lot of calling with JJ
[ QUOTE ]
i don't like just calling on the flop, OR just calling on the turn. your equity is too high vs a flush draw esp. 3 handed so unless the guy flopped the flush you want as much going in as possible. sometimes i wait til the turn with a hand like AJ here, for obvious reasons. to me the turn is an obvious 3 bet.. by the way, why no preflop cap? i would feel sick not putting in more action on this hand [/ QUOTE ] UTG+1 check 3bet this flop, look at his stats. I think I like this hand just fine. |
Re: A lot of calling with JJ
I think I really out-thought myself preflop. Even against a 6 and an 8 PFR I should cap preflop.
|
Re: A lot of calling with JJ
I don't play 15/30 and I'm sure it's more aggro than I'm used to, but I think the default by-the-book PF play is to fold JJ against a raise and a reraise. Looking at these stats, a 6 PFR opens and an 8 PFR 3-bets (and if he's playing over half his hands but only raising 8% of them, I doubt he's 3-betting with anything worse than JJ. AQs/AKo maybe. But you're also not closing the action. I dunno... everyone here loves playing JJ for any number of bets PF, but it's close for me.
|
Re: A lot of calling with JJ
I think this is an easy cap preflop. A 55/8 is 3betting an enormous range of hands here from 77+, KQ+ and AJ/AQ+.
I would cap the flop and 3 bet the turn. I'm still putting these guys on a fairly large range that does not involve a Flush or set of Aces at this point. Plus you have tons of outs against a made flush. Stop hanging out with nits [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] |
Re: A lot of calling with JJ
[ QUOTE ]
I think I really out-thought myself preflop. Even against a 6 and an 8 PFR I should cap preflop. [/ QUOTE ] i didn't even think about those stats, since you said you had a very limited # of hands on them.. ok i lied, it's because i never look at the stats, but looking back i don't think you can draw a conclusion that makes you call instead of raise preflop |
Re: A lot of calling with JJ
[ QUOTE ]
I think I really out-thought myself preflop. Even against a 6 and an 8 PFR I should cap preflop. [/ QUOTE ] Against a pfr of 6 and a pfr of 8 after thousands and thousands of hands this becomes close to a fold. Given that you have such limited data, you should be jamming the [censored] out of this because the default assumption is that at 15/30 players are more aggressive. |
Re: A lot of calling with JJ
Why didn't you 3-bet the turn?
|
Re: A lot of calling with JJ
[ QUOTE ]
draw esp. 3 handed so unless the guy flopped the flush you want as much going in as possible. [/ QUOTE ] Wouldn't it be the case that even if he knew UTG+1 had AhKh and the other player had a very tight 3-betting range (TT+, AK) he should still be capping the flop as he would probably have over 33% equity in this pot with top set? Add to that the fact that there is no way UTG+1 always has a flush here, obviously, and that this should be an easy flop cap? |
Re: A lot of calling with JJ
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] draw esp. 3 handed so unless the guy flopped the flush you want as much going in as possible. [/ QUOTE ] Wouldn't it be the case that even if he knew UTG+1 had AhKh and the other player had a very tight 3-betting range (TT+, AK) he should still be capping the flop as he would probably have over 33% equity in this pot with top set? Add to that the fact that there is no way UTG+1 always has a flush here, obviously, and that this should be an easy flop cap? [/ QUOTE ] could be, depending on his equity, which depends on the other guy's 3-betting range like you said. all i was saying is if the guy doesn't have flush, you want as much $$ going in as possible. if he has a flush, that may not be true. |
Re: A lot of calling with JJ
[ QUOTE ]
I don't play 15/30 and I'm sure it's more aggro than I'm used to, but I think the default by-the-book PF play is to fold JJ against a raise and a reraise. Looking at these stats, a 6 PFR opens and an 8 PFR 3-bets (and if he's playing over half his hands but only raising 8% of them, I doubt he's 3-betting with anything worse than JJ. AQs/AKo maybe. But you're also not closing the action. I dunno... everyone here loves playing JJ for any number of bets PF, but it's close for me. [/ QUOTE ] I am not an online player, but there is no way I am folding JJ pre-flop here against two virtually unknown players. Not capping is debatable, but folding is ridiculous. |
Re: A lot of calling with JJ
With a limited sample I could see capping pre-flop. If you are pretty sure that they are both relatively passive, I would fold pre-flop.
I think 3-betting the turn would be good. You are probably only going to get re-raised by the absolute nuts. Then you can decide whether to take a free showdown or not. Overall I think you win the most lose less this way. |
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:03 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.