5/10 QQ gives me heartburn
 

5/10 6-max
Villain A is pretty laggy. I have reraised him about 4 times in recent times, so I thought I would take a different line this time.
Villain B recently opened UTG with A9o, I called and he fired two barrels at a T843 board (I called him down with JJ). He seems laggy from his stats.

Villain B has about 800 in the BB
Villain A has 2k+ UTG
I have about 1500 UTG+1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Preflop
Villain A opens for 35, I call, folded to villain B who makes it 115 to go, villain A calls, and I just call

Flop (345)
8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Villain A leads for 250, villain B folds, Whats your play ?

Re: 5/10 QQ gives me heartburn
 

the order of action seems messed up.....preflop was B (in bb), A, you....and flop it's A, B, you?......

Re: 5/10 QQ gives me heartburn
 

I'm confused.

Re: 5/10 QQ gives me heartburn
 

5/10 6-max
LagRaiser is pretty laggy. I have reraised him about 4 times in recent times, so I thought I would take a different line this time.
Reraiser recently opened UTG with A9o, I called and he fired two barrels at a T843 board (I called him down with JJ). He seems laggy from his stats.

Reraiser has about 800 in the BB
LagRaiser has 2k+ UTG
I have about 1500 UTG+1 with QQ

Preflop
LagRaiser opens for 35, I call, folded to Reraiser who makes it 115 to go, LagRaiser calls, and I just call

Flop (345)
8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Reraiser leads for 250, LagRaiser folds, Whats your play ?

Re: 5/10 QQ gives me heartburn
 

I give him 99-JJ and price him in, he can't have AA if he's any good and KK would be strange but not impossible. I would make it about 750 here.

Re: 5/10 QQ gives me heartburn
 

I think it's at least as likely that he has AA/KK as 99-JJ. Probably AA/KK more often, but I'm a fish and would call and get it in on the turn.

Re: 5/10 QQ gives me heartburn
 

[ QUOTE ]
he can't have AA if he's any good and KK would be strange but not impossible.

[/ QUOTE ]

This makes no sense to me - care to explain? What is wrong with re-raising AA/KK out of the blinds with a raiser and a caller, especially in 6 max. If anything, his re-raise is a bit small, IMO.

With QQ, I would have re-raised preflop, after the initial raiser. As played, I think its a muck. IMO, you are more likely to be up against AA/KK here than any other hands - I would need a read on this guy that he is 3-betting w/ 3 way action OOP with a wide range before I make the call.

It seems to me, that by calling this raise preflop in position, you are playing for set value - since you dont act first on the flop - any move you make will be all-in. You may have the best hand, but not often enough to make it +EV, methinks.

D

Re: 5/10 QQ gives me heartburn
 

Push.....

Re: 5/10 QQ gives me heartburn
 

You've already decided, by calling the 115, that he doesn't have AA/KK, since there's not enough there to play for set value alone. When you do that, you pretty much commit yourself to pushing a favorable flop, i.e. one that has no A or K in it.

So here's that favorable flop. Now push, and cross your fingers that your initial read was right.

Re: 5/10 QQ gives me heartburn
 

Sorry I was confused when I wrote my original reply, as I thought villian opened for a raise then smoothcalled the re-raise from a third player and led out on the flop. As this is apparently not the case my comments are not applicable.

If it was the preflop 3-bettor that bet you have a tough spot, but only because your preflop play sucked. I really hate your failure to do anything but call before the flop because now you are in no mans land.

Re: 5/10 QQ gives me heartburn
 

[ QUOTE ]
You've already decided, by calling the 115, that he doesn't have AA/KK, since there's not enough there to play for set value alone. When you do that, you pretty much commit yourself to pushing a favorable flop, i.e. one that has no A or K in it.

So here's that favorable flop. Now push, and cross your fingers that your initial read was right.

[/ QUOTE ]

surely by this reasonining then hero should fold preflop, since bb is going to fire at nearly all flops, can play his hand perfectly, and hero can make errors(eg folding to JJ on K high flop etc). Thats not even counting utg as an unwelcome bonus.

Re: 5/10 QQ gives me heartburn
 

The confused version in the OP is way more interesting than what actually happened.

creedofhubris got it spot on.

Re: 5/10 QQ gives me heartburn
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You've already decided, by calling the 115, that he doesn't have AA/KK, since there's not enough there to play for set value alone. When you do that, you pretty much commit yourself to pushing a favorable flop, i.e. one that has no A or K in it.

So here's that favorable flop. Now push, and cross your fingers that your initial read was right.

[/ QUOTE ]

surely by this reasonining then hero should fold preflop, since bb is going to fire at nearly all flops, can play his hand perfectly, and hero can make errors(eg folding to JJ on K high flop etc). Thats not even counting utg as an unwelcome bonus.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero has position and closes the action, which is helpful. UTG is not going to be able to make any moves; he's the one in a terrible spot.

Reraising villain will make one "error" a fair amount of the time, and that is leading out for a substantial bet on any board. Assuming villain has a broad range, hero's going to snap off a fair number of bluffs from AK-missed, 77, random suited cards, etc. Hero may even get his all-in called from a worse hand a fair amount of the time. (After leading out, villain's going to be committed with a smaller pp.)

Re: 5/10 QQ gives me heartburn
 

Fuzzbox, I agree that since you just called preflop, we should get in all in on a favorable flop here. BTW, what range are you giving the bb here that he will reraise with?

Re: 5/10 QQ gives me heartburn
 

Think maybe areraise after the call preflop to eliminate one of these guys and to see where you really are before the flop. Calling sucks