My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

1) Cease our support of Israel. Cut off all foreign aid to them and stop supplying them with weapons, permanently.

2) Pull our troops out of every country in the world. Bring them all back home.

3) Apologize to the Muslim world for all of our crimes.

Most people with common sense can see that this plan would stop terrorism- we all know that most terrorism is committed by Muslims.

Some people on here will say that this plan sounds like appeasement, and it is. Is there something wrong with that? Al Quaeda will have no reason to attack us after this. If they do of course we will pwn them, but they won't. Attacking us after these steps are accomplished for revenge or something like that would just be stupid.

Some on here who say it is appeasement would prefer a more macho proposed solution, like the status quo. But this plan won't work. We will never win the war on terror with violence.

My three-step plan is the best option.

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

Well that would certainly help, but I think you underestimate the economic reasons behind the hatred of the west.

Besides, this might curb terrorism from a certain group, but radical group X would just pick up where they left off.

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

Good points, Frank. So we must add a few steps:

4) give all our money to anyone who thinks we have offended them.

5) sell ourselves into slavery and let them adopt our children and raise them in the "true" religion.

Surely, this will end the terrorist war against us.

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

Even more direct. Kill 1,000 militant muslims for every US citizen killed. If this doesnt work add a nought. They immediately get the message. keep attacking the west we will be liquidated as a race/religion.

ps i agree with your bit about Israel they have caused the west untold problems in the middle east and certainly are not our allies, they do whatever suits them and only that.

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

Your 3-step plan would obviously remove almost all anti-US/ anti-western terrorism. They would have no reason to conduct such attacks anymore.

I think in certain situations foreign interventions can be a good thing but it can't be led by US since US troops are insensitive so much hated that they always end up putting extra fuel on the fire.

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Good points, Frank. So we must add a few steps:

4) give all our money to anyone who thinks we have offended them.

5) sell ourselves into slavery and let them adopt our children and raise them in the "true" religion.

Surely, this will end the terrorist war against us.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup, that's the only logical conclusion to admitting that there are economic reasons behind the hatred of the west. It's that kind of black-and-white thinking that makes this country great!

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

[ QUOTE ]
1) Cease our support of Israel. Cut off all foreign aid to them and stop supplying them with weapons, permanently.

2) Pull our troops out of every country in the world. Bring them all back home.

3) Apologize to the Muslim world for all of our crimes.

Most people with common sense can see that this plan would stop terrorism- we all know that most terrorism is committed by Muslims.

Some people on here will say that this plan sounds like appeasement, and it is. Is there something wrong with that? Al Quaeda will have no reason to attack us after this. If they do of course we will pwn them, but they won't. Attacking us after these steps are accomplished for revenge or something like that would just be stupid.

Some on here who say it is appeasement would prefer a more macho proposed solution, like the status quo. But this plan won't work. We will never win the war on terror with violence.

My three-step plan is the best option.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please take a can of Coke, open it, and spill it on your keyboard.

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

This person is the only sane poster in this thread. And it's not close.

BTW, Counter-Terrorists win here. If Osama Bin Laden has a very specific, reasonable list of concessions he wants the West to make, than Bin Laden might get things done in the fashion of the IRA, Lebanon, Vietnam, etc.

Otherwise, Al-Qaida's going to get smashed (and it's not going to be close).

Oh, and capitalism winz. Economics matter, and poverty hurts.

My 8 Step Plan To Winning the War on Terror
 

1. Convert the Entire USA to Shi'ite Muslims.
2. Issue a Fatwa that all Arab Sunnis (except Kurds) are heretics and should be killed as infidels.
3. Kill them
4. Convert the Entire USA to Sunni Muslims.
5. Issue a Fatwa that all Arab Shi'ites are heretics and should be killed as infidels.
6. Kill them.
7. Convert back to our previous faiths.
8. Drink a beer to celebrate a job well done.

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Al Qaeda will have no reason to attack us after this.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sure that's what Chamberlain thought after letting Hitler have the Sudentenland. What I think is wrong with your logic is that you're trying to give reasonable motivations to unreasonable people.

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Al Qaeda will have no reason to attack us after this.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sure that's what Chamberlain thought after letting Hitler have the Sudentenland. What I think is wrong with your logic is that you're trying to give reasonable motivations to unreasonable people.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well if they do attack us afterward then we can kill as many of them as you'd like. I'd even piss on all their graves afterward. That';s how confident I am that that won't happen.

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

Let's skip the middle step, because Al Qaeda would not stop after we took such steps.

WOW!
 

Well if they do attack us afterward then we can kill as many of them as you'd like. I'd even piss on all their graves afterward. That';s how confident I am that that won't happen.
************************************************** ***
Wow!
I'd even support Dead and go thru some short-lived humiliation just to see him piss on their graves. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
This assumes he does not go back on his promises. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Your 3-step plan would obviously remove almost all anti-US/ anti-western terrorism. They would have no reason to conduct such attacks anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

This commonly held view exposes a common ignorance of an underlying reality of radical Islam.

If you are not a Muslim, or if you stand in the way of their jihadic visions and efforts, radical Islamists have (in their own minds) more than ample justification to attack you. Just as they have done in the Great Jihads of past centuries.

You guys who think it is all due to Israel, economics, and backlash from slights against the Muslim world, really ought to read a good number of sermons from the mosques, and some more statements by radical Islamist leaders. Heck, they'll TELL you what they're thinking. But you guys are only listening to the side you already think you of. The parts about the rightness of killing non-Muslims, of killing blasphemers and apostates; of spreading Islam over the world by the sword; of carrying out the will of Allah in tormenting unbelievers--those parts you handily seem to ignore, or at least are ignorant of. However if you would really pay attention to what the Islamists are SAYING OUT LOUD you would realize there is far more to this than what you presume.

I'm not saying there aren't economic or backlash components to all this--of course there are. But the underlying Islamo-fascist jihadic theme has been present for many centuries, and if you listen to what its leaders are saying loud and clear, you will realize that no amount of goodwill or appeasement will mollify those truly intent on jihad and following Muhammad's example of religious conquest through force, violence, and coercion.

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

I think it's the other way around. Economic and political issues lead to resentment and hate, and then radical fundamentalism is used to galvanize support, because it's always easier to get people to agree with you if you convince them God is on your side (see GWB). Radical Islam is a symptom, not the primary cause, of hatred toward the west, imo.

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

The mullahs sermonize to motivate and encourage their troops just like Bush/Rummy denigrate the Islamists to motivate and encourage the American people and our troops.

Here again is some sensible reading on this subject from someone who understands that part of the world: Link again to Salon article

Far better than your normal reading.

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

Without having read any replies, I will offer my thoughts. Though I agree that this whole [censored] thing is our fault and don't know how the idiot got reelected, your plan will not stop terrorism. Terrorism is caused by people who are attempting to find outside reasons for their problems (and may or may not be justified). They then channel that anger and hatred towards the cause of their problems in very destructive means, feeling justified because they are only destroying the evil which is causing so much badness. There will always be people like this. I like your post even though it won't work.

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

Simply announce that any identifiable remains of suicide bombers in the future will be buried with 100 lbs of partially rendered pork fat. It seems Allah, most forgiving, ever merciful will not let you bang the virgins if you are buried with pigs. I believe I read somewhere that Gen MacArthur quashed a Muslim rebellion in the Phillipines this way. Anyway, it couldn't hurt, if only to throw some extra insults at these bastards.

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's the other way around. Economic and political issues lead to resentment and hate, and then radical fundamentalism is used to galvanize support, because it's always easier to get people to agree with you if you convince them God is on your side (see GWB). Radical Islam is a symptom, not the primary cause, of hatred toward the west, imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

You apparently think radical Islam is a relatively modern phenomenon. It isn't.

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

That article won't run through my firewall. Shame on them if you have to specifically "allow" their URL in order to view it.

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

<<Well if they do attack us afterward then we can kill as many of them as you'd like. I'd even piss on all their graves afterward. That';s how confident I am that that won't happen. >>

I'm actually really interested to know, what makes you so confident that they, after roughly 1500 years of Jihads, many of them unprovoked power thrusts that have shaped and destroyed empires and even continents as per their religious doctrine, would just completely 100% stop?

-Matt

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Al Qaeda will have no reason to attack us after this.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sure that's what Chamberlain thought after letting Hitler have the Sudentenland. What I think is wrong with your logic is that you're trying to give reasonable motivations to unreasonable people.

[/ QUOTE ]

WWII / WOT comparisons are officially ILLEGAL because they are UTTERLY RIDICULOUS.

NT

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well if they do attack us afterward then we can kill as many of them as you'd like. I'd even piss on all their graves afterward. That's how ignorant I am that that won't happen.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fixed your post.

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

Didn't the WTC get demolished *before* we invaded Iraq?

natedogg

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Al Qaeda will have no reason to attack us after this.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sure that's what Chamberlain thought after letting Hitler have the Sudentenland. What I think is wrong with your logic is that you're trying to give reasonable motivations to unreasonable people.

[/ QUOTE ]

WWII / WOT comparisons are officially ILLEGAL because they are UTTERLY RIDICULOUS.

NT

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, the part about trying to appease unreasonable people makes sense to me. You can't do it. Is anyone really stupid enough to believe that pulling out of Iraq will mollify these cretins?

natedogg

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

BTW, the problem with Dead's plan isn't that withdrawing from these nations won't end terrorism against the US. We could do a lot less in terms of withdrawal and effectively achieve that goal. The problem with Dead's plan is that eliminating US military presence around the globe and US influence abroad would bring an end to our prominence in world trade, destroy our ability to influence or strongarm allies and vulnerable nations, throw our energy supply into jeopardy until we get off the fossil fuel kick, and basically force American consumers to face reality. The bubble would pop.

And we would look like such pussies. Seriously.

NT

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think it's the other way around. Economic and political issues lead to resentment and hate, and then radical fundamentalism is used to galvanize support, because it's always easier to get people to agree with you if you convince them God is on your side (see GWB). Radical Islam is a symptom, not the primary cause, of hatred toward the west, imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

You apparently think radical Islam is a relatively modern phenomenon. It isn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course it isn't. There's a long tradition of religion (not just Islam) being twisted to justify atrocities, i.e. the Crusades and Manifest Destiny. Just as it would be a gross oversimplifaction and a disservice to the religion to say those events were based primarily on radical Catholicism, it's an oversimplification and a disservice to blame the recent terror attacks primarily on radical Islam.

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Al Qaeda will have no reason to attack us after this.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sure that's what Chamberlain thought after letting Hitler have the Sudentenland. What I think is wrong with your logic is that you're trying to give reasonable motivations to unreasonable people.

[/ QUOTE ]

WWII / WOT comparisons are officially ILLEGAL because they are UTTERLY RIDICULOUS.

NT

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, the part about trying to appease unreasonable people makes sense to me. You can't do it. Is anyone really stupid enough to believe that pulling out of Iraq will mollify these cretins?

natedogg

[/ QUOTE ]

Not at all. However, the WW2 analogy has been used for all sorts of fallacious logical purposes far beyond this issue. It's hyperbolic and a transparent attempt to appropriate the legitimacy of our invasion of Europe during that time.

NT

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

[ QUOTE ]

Not at all. However, the WW2 analogy has been used for all sorts of fallacious logical purposes far beyond this issue. It's hyperbolic and a transparent attempt to appropriate the legitimacy of our invasion of Europe during that time.

NT

[/ QUOTE ]
Right, because Nazi Germany didn't declare war on the US and Pearl Harbor didn't happen? WTF do you expect the US to do?

And of course, the real "invasion" happened after WWII ended, with the Marshall Plan making sure that America gained control of Western Europe, not the Soviet Union, which effectively won the Cold War.

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Not at all. However, the WW2 analogy has been used for all sorts of fallacious logical purposes far beyond this issue. It's hyperbolic and a transparent attempt to appropriate the legitimacy of our invasion of Europe during that time.

NT

[/ QUOTE ]
Right, because Nazi Germany didn't declare war on the US and Pearl Harbor didn't happen? WTF do you expect the US to do?

And of course, the real "invasion" happened after WWII ended, with the Marshall Plan making sure that America gained control of Western Europe, not the Soviet Union, which effectively won the Cold War.

[/ QUOTE ]

You read g00t.

I wasn't criticizing the US invasion of Europe, or the aftermath of the war. I was saying that, when people compare it to our current situation in Iraq, it is often a misleading debate tactic that is intended to create a heightened sense of necessity regarding the Iraq war by comparing it to a conflict with which it is utterly dissimilar in most substantial areas.

NT

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

[ QUOTE ]
You apparently think radical Islam is a relatively modern phenomenon. It isn't.



Of course it isn't. There's a long tradition of religion (not just Islam) being twisted to justify atrocities, i.e. the Crusades and Manifest Destiny. Just as it would be a gross oversimplifaction and a disservice to the religion to say those events were based primarily on radical Catholicism, it's an oversimplification and a disservice to blame the recent terror attacks primarily on radical Islam.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is NOT parallel.

Islam advocates force in order to achieve it's goal of Islam ruling the world. Christianity doesn't.

Mohammed personally led many wars to gain territory and to forcibly place regions under Islamic rule. Jesus didn't.

Mohammed called on Muslims to fight, kill or subjugate non-believers. Jesus didn't.

Islam does not have to be twisted in order to use it to support wars of religious conquest. Conquest is a part and parcel of the philosophical basis of Islam. Mohammed also offered his warriors booty in this world and paradise in the next.

Christianity advocates turning the other cheek when being assaulted, and resisting not evil, and loving one's enemy.

Islam advocates slaying one's enemy, and slaying the enemies of God.

Those who use Islam to advocate war against non-believers are just following the scripture. Those who use Christianity to advocate going to war against non-believers are turning the teachings of Christianity completely upside down.

There have been many misguided Christians who have taken evil actions against others. That is a tragedy but not the point.

Unless you understand that the philosophical bases of the two religions are poles apart in some of the most profound ways, you will persist in thinking it is only the twisting of either that leads to violence. That is simply a factually incorrect view. One religion preaches forgiveness and nonviolence towards others, whilst the other religion glorifies violence and conquest and forcing the world to submit to its own religious rule. Do not confuse the actions of some misguided followers with what the religion actually instructs its followers to do. Look at the actual texts and see for yourself (that is, read and compare the New Testament with the Koran itself, if you wish to gain a deeper understanding of their respective philosophical bases).

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do not confuse the actions of some misguided followers with what the religion actually instructs its followers to do

[/ QUOTE ]

It's seems to me you should heed your own advice. I've studied the Bible, and I could go through it and pull out dozens of passages that advocate peace and dozens that could be used to advocate violent, hateful aggression. I have not studied the Koran, but I'm going to go ahead and assume I could do the same thing with it. We both agree that religion can be twisted to garner support and justification, I don't think this is a shock to anyone.

You contend that Islam is an inherently aggressive religion, and that, by extention, Muslims are inherently aggressive people. I disagree, based on the fact that the vast majority of Muslims do not support radical groups like Al Quada, nor do they "fight, kill or subjugate non-believers."

Do you honestly believe this issue is this black and white? Not even President Bush, in all his religious rhetoric, calls this a war against Islam. Why not? If it was that clear, wouldn't he lay it out to garner support? Of course he would, but he can't because he knows that, even for all the bs we put up with, Americans wouldn't buy that. I know it's easier to believe all our enemies are purely born evil with no legitimate grievances, but that's just not how the world works.

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

Good post. I agree 100%

The muslim world has many valid reasons to hate the U.S., and envy is not one of them. Anyone who thinks otherwise is ignorant of history and politics imo.

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

Ah, like you your firewall accepts only politically compatible thought to get through.

Mine lets all sorts of thoughts through and then I decide.

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Didn't the WTC get demolished *before* we invaded Iraq?

natedogg

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes it did. It was demolished for the two reasons I listed above: our strong support of Israel, and our military presence all over the world, in over 100 countries(but especially the Muslim countries). It could have been avoided.

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

I concur with this view.

We are suffering the backlash of 100 years of colonialism of Arab lands, highly biased support of Israel, and support of the totalitarian regimes of Saudi and Egypt.

This has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with Islam.

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

[ QUOTE ]

Some people on here will say that this plan sounds like appeasement, and it is. Is there something wrong with that? Al Quaeda will have no reason to attack us after this. If they do of course we will pwn them, but they won't. Attacking us after these steps are accomplished for revenge or something like that would just be stupid.

Some on here who say it is appeasement would prefer a more macho proposed solution, like the status quo. But this plan won't work. We will never win the war on terror with violence.

[/ QUOTE ]

As others alluded to on this post, the problem with appeasement has been demonstrated historically. I am not comparing the war on terror with World War II, but I am saying that appeasement will not work against fundamentalist extremists.

Muslims exist in virtually every country in the world. Moreover, they are a significant portion of our country's population. They serve in the military, they vote, and many of them are eligible to become President, if they desire to run.

The problem is that you believe that radical Islamic extremists, on par with the KKK in terms of reason, can be understanding. They DO NOT want to just have their Holy Land back; they DO NOT want to eradicate Israel; and most of all, they DO NOT just want an apology.

They want all of us dead.

Let me repeat this:

They want all of us dead, as quickly and violently as possible. Our response is rather irrelevant. Now, if you are of the opinion that we should be unaffected, continue with our lives, and allow them to do what they will, since it is inevitable, then that is your right to believe.

I do not agree with the war on terror because it is radically ineffective and inefficient. How our military, with all of its resources, can continually fail to find a human being on this planet, in this day and age, defies logic. We are stuck in a quicksand situation in Iraq, too far in to withdraw, for fear of the way the country will go, but not far enough in to do anything other than inflame the situation.

So, I do not agree with Pres. Bush's continued insistence that we stay in Iraq, nor do I enjoy the fact that he has yet to come clean about the reality of the situation to the American public. But, then again, I don't expect any sort of straight answer from a member of either party.

But I digress. The problem with your plan is that it will not have the desired effect, and if, as you say, we will attack them further if they continue to attack(which they will), we will have greatly weakened ourselves as a nation, militarily, politically, and, as a matter of principle.

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

[ QUOTE ]
It was demolished for the two reasons I listed above: our strong support of Israel, and our military presence all over the world, in over 100 countries(but especially the Muslim countries). It could have been avoided.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually I'd add another point to that: U.S. intereference in the affairs of the arab people. The U.S. props up corrupt governments in Saudi Arabia and partly in Egypt, and we meddle in their internal affairs. Arabs resent it, and rightly so.

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

[ QUOTE ]
The U.S. props up corrupt governments in Saudi Arabia and partly in Egypt

[/ QUOTE ]

I found something even more ridiculous than the original posters "plan." Didn't think that was possible.

Re: My three step plan to stop terrorism against the U.S.
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's seems to me you should heed your own advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is precisely what I have done. Sorry you've come so late to this board and have not participated in years of threads involving related matters, but welcome anyway!

[ QUOTE ]
I've studied the Bible, and I could go through it and pull out dozens of passages that advocate peace and dozens that could be used to advocate violent, hateful aggression.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not in the New Testament where Jesus is teaching--which is the essence of the philosophy of Christianity. By the way I am not a Christian.

[ QUOTE ]
I have not studied the Koran,

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously.

[ QUOTE ]
but I'm going to go ahead and assume I could do the same thing with it. We both agree that religion can be twisted to garner support and justification, I don't think this is a shock to anyone.

[/ QUOTE ]

Anything can be twisted but the philosophical underpinnings of the two religions are profoundly different. You have admitted not being familiar with Islam. Why then do you PRESUME it is rather parallel in its teachings and philosophy? In other words, your opinion of Islam is entirely based on nothing more than pure guesswork.

[ QUOTE ]
You contend that Islam is an inherently aggressive religion, and that, by extention, Muslims are inherently aggressive people.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I don't contend that Muslims are inherently aggressive. I contend that ISLAM is.

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree, based on the fact that the vast majority of Muslims do not support radical groups like Al Quada, nor do they "fight, kill or subjugate non-believers."

[/ QUOTE ]

I completely agree that most Muslims are fairly moderate--and, as Ibn Warraq puts it, "There may be moderate Muslims, but Islam itself is not moderate."

[ QUOTE ]
Do you honestly believe this issue is this black and white?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

[ QUOTE ]
Not even President Bush, in all his religious rhetoric, calls this a war against Islam. Why not? If it was that clear, wouldn't he lay it out to garner support? Of course he would, but he can't because he knows that, even for all the bs we put up with, Americans wouldn't buy that. I know it's easier to believe all our enemies are purely born evil with no legitimate grievances, but that's just not how he world works.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no dispute with that. I am only saying that ISLAM itself is philosophically structured to impose Islam over all other religions (and by force if necessary).

Furthermore, the concept of secularism is inherently at odds with Islam, as Islam makes no philosophical distinction between the secular and the sacred, nor between the religious and the political, and Islam's goal is to bring the entire world under Islamic rule.