checking this river correct?
 

With my raise PF and I'm getting a caller on the flop and the turn with the A out, I checked the river because I felt I'm more likely to be raised than called and if I'm raised I've probably lost.

My only thought against this was I probably would've been raised on the turn if he has the A.

Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. MP2 posts a blind of $0.25.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 (poster) checks, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls, BB folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds.

Turn: (6 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls.

River: (8 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 8 BB

Re: checking this river correct?
 

no, not correct. decent-sized mistake, and that's really all there is to say.

Re: checking this river correct?
 

please explain why?

Re: checking this river correct?
 

really?

because he will call this with K/Q high, a T, a 5, or a pocket pair, and he didn't c/r or bet the turn when the second ace fell, so he hardly ever has you beaten.

that explain it?

Re: checking this river correct?
 

You would have heard from and Ace earlier. That, plus the fact that the final board has 3 of them out there and you hold the second nuts. . . value bet.

Re: checking this river correct?
 

[ QUOTE ]
please explain why?

[/ QUOTE ]

You have the 2nd nuts???!

Re: checking this river correct?
 

If opponent is typical and he as an ace I think he is c/r the turn like most of time. River is a an easy easy value bet.

Re: checking this river correct?
 

some things that might be obvious to you or others aren't so obvious to some of us "n00bs", I wouldn't be posting here and asking questions about my play if I knew all the reasoning behind it.

Re: checking this river correct?
 

i have this notepad file i keep for times like this, let me cut and paste real quick.

I am sorry if what I said sounded demeaning. I did not mean to come off as a jackass or as if I thought your poker-playing ability was poor. Occasionally, I will say something that sounds bad, but I rarely mean to piss people off or make them feel sad. Usually, it is just the way of the internet - things are hard to say. Please be my friend.

Re: checking this river correct?
 

[ QUOTE ]
some things that might be obvious to you or others aren't so obvious to some of us "n00bs", I wouldn't be posting here and asking questions about my play if I knew all the reasoning behind it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you put and Ace in the villain's hand when you were trying to figure out what he held? If the answer is 'no' then you should be betting. If the answer is 'yes' tell us why. If the answer is 'I wasn't thinking about what he had' then therein lies the problem.

Re: checking this river correct?
 

value betting the river is 1 of the hardest things for me to grasp, I have a weak/tight mentality much of the time and I am terrified by lots of river cards, I am learning to steer away from that mentality and find strength in my hands, I am much better about river bets than I have been in the past but it's part of my game that needs alot of work.

Thank you for the responses, I appreciate your time and consideration.

Re: checking this river correct?
 

nah, it's just that at times I'm not sure people realize that concepts/ideas that are so simple to them might be foreign to someone else.

Re: checking this river correct?
 

I thought there was certainly a possibility he held the A, at this level at Paradise I see alot of passivity, even on the turn in hands like this.

I was in a hand today and bet 2nd pair on the turn, and was HU on the river when an A fell, I again bet my 2nd pair and my opponent did not raise the river even when the A gave him top 2 pair.

I have trouble with a hand like this because I think to myself, "what possible hand did this jerkoff call my PF raise with and continuing to call my flop and turn bets with?" - especially when I'm showing strength by continuing to bet into a board with 2 aces.

If I was on the other end of this hand, I wouldn't be in on the turn if I didn't have an A or a PP.

Re: checking this river correct?
 

that's the thing. they love to call. don't expect them to play like you would. so don't scare yourself into checking behind. it's a rare breed of player that will check call the flop and turn and check rivered quad aces heads up.

expect to see, Kx, Qx, Tx, 5x and any pocket pairs call this river bet.

Re: checking this river correct?
 

value betting the river for you might be as simple as raising with the nuts.

for me it doesn't come that automatic yet, I'm not at the river with 3 aces on board and thinking "he could call me with K high"

Re: checking this river correct?
 

I guess my thought was, if I bet the river and he doesn't have the A, he'll likely fold, so I don't gain a bet, if I bet the river there is a chance I'll be raised.

Part of my problem is I expect them to play better than they do.

Re: checking this river correct?
 

yeah it takes time to get over that, but once you do you'll say to yourself, "damn these guys suck," and you'll bet so hard all the time. then you'll go into your lag phase where you overdo it. then you'll settle down and be awesome. then, girls, money, and beer.

Re: checking this river correct?
 

[ QUOTE ]
some things that might be obvious to you or others aren't so obvious to some of us "n00bs", I wouldn't be posting here and asking questions about my play if I knew all the reasoning behind it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please don't post this.

Re: checking this river correct?
 

BAHAAHAHHAAHAH!!

Re: checking this river correct?
 

If we bet, and are raised, do we re-raise here?
Let's assume no read on the opponent.

What information/read would you need to have to call the raise or to re-raise?

If we are re-raising, and there is no cap, would you take it to the felt with this hand?

Re: checking this river correct?
 

if he bet into me, i would raise and call a 3-bet

if he check raises me, i'm going to have to just call.

if he's a known retard (like raising 3-pair when the 3rd pair is on the board), this is getting capped

Re: checking this river correct?
 

[ QUOTE ]
value betting the river is 1 of the hardest things for me to grasp, I have a weak/tight mentality much of the time and I am terrified by lots of river cards, I am learning to steer away from that mentality and find strength in my hands, I am much better about river bets than I have been in the past but it's part of my game that needs alot of work.

Thank you for the responses, I appreciate your time and consideration.

[/ QUOTE ]

Think of how this would be different if there were 4 diamonds on the board instead of 3 aces. Is this really the same thing? You have to be celebrating that river card!

Re: checking this river correct?
 

good point, I didn't look at it like that either.

Re: checking this river correct?
 

*Grunch*

Only the remaining A can beat you here, as far as I can see, so I don't see why you should slow down on the River.
If the SB had had the A he would have being mad after the Turn. Fill your boots.

Re: checking this river correct?
 

omg...please tell me I'm reading that board incorrectly.

EDIT: Ok, I double-checked it. You gotta bet this river my man.

Re: checking this river correct?
 

I agree with most of the other posters in this thread - your opponent MUST have the case ace to beat you, and can only tie you if he has the other two kings - even if he had a low set and was slowplaying you, you now have him beat and will make him think twice before slowplaying a set. If you are checkraised, so be it - you have the second nuts! The other player, in a nine-handed game, and the way he has just called you down, probably has a K-T or some other draw (perhaps a K-J or K-Q, etc.) and has missed. If he has K-T, you missed a big bet, and he may even call you w/ king high. Don't always be afraid of these situations - you will miss more bets than cost yourself bets when you are beat.

Re: checking this river correct?
 

[ QUOTE ]
i have this notepad file i keep for times like this, let me cut and paste real quick.

I am sorry if what I said sounded demeaning. I did not mean to come off as a jackass or as if I thought your poker-playing ability was poor. Occasionally, I will say something that sounds bad, but I rarely mean to piss people off or make them feel sad. Usually, it is just the way of the internet - things are hard to say. Please be my friend.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously Miles, I dont say this often, if ever, to people on the internet, and really in real life its almost exclusively reserved for my wife and kids, but I love you!


Bet the river. If he has the ace, oh well, he already has saved you a ton of bets along the way with his passive play, so really you are ahead even if you lose.

Re: checking this river correct?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Seriously Miles, I dont say this often, if ever, to people on the internet, and really in real life its almost exclusively reserved for my wife and kids, but I love you!

[/ QUOTE ]
a/s/l?

Re: checking this river correct?
 

I suggest you review the last hundred hands you took to showdown and examine the river play on each.

Count how many times you:
1) missed a value bet
2) correctly checked when beaten
3) correctly induced a bluff by a hand that wouldn't call
4) made a value bet but got raised*

* This doesn't mean the value bet was incorrect. Sometimes people slowplay or suckout on the river but not often. Even when they do it only costs you 1 bet if you were going to check/call anyways.

This should give you a reasonable idea if you're missing a lot of value bets. I know it helps me. You just have to make sure not to be results oriented.

Re: checking this river correct?
 

Bet the river. Call a raise.