AK Early Tourney - Getting away from it.
 

AK in the CO, only 7 players at the table (2 are away, one seat empty). Blinds 15-30, my stack around 1900, UTG stack around 4000.

One UTG limper big stack, I raise 4xbb, BB calls and UTG calls.

Flop is 6A7.

I make a half pot cb, he min raises, I call. He checks the turn and I make a 3/4 pot bet, he moves me all in and I call.

UTG shows 76, makes a full house on the river.

Anyway to avoid hands like this?

Re: AK Early Tourney - Getting away from it.
 

ask yourself what your opponent may have to make such a bet

Re: AK Early Tourney - Getting away from it.
 

I did, and the answer was Ace-x. He was big stack early because he played crap cards and got idiots to go all in against him. I saw him show down an ace with a 6 kicker on one hand, and middle pair on another.

His UTG limp further said to me something like Ace-8, Ace-9. It wouldnt make sense that he limped with 76o and called 3xBB more with it OOP. But he did :P

Only thing I was worried about was Ace-6, Ace-7, and by the turn I was thinking about how I was going to get all my chips in.

Re: AK Early Tourney - Getting away from it.
 

I think his agression could make me think he hit a set on the flop. You said he was a big stack so I could see him playing pocket pairs, even to a raise.

Personally, I think it would be hard to get away from this hand, though I'm not the best of players.

Re: AK Early Tourney - Getting away from it.
 

ur line was fine, dont expect this to happen often coz he needs to hit the flop hard to profit at all.

Re: AK Early Tourney - Getting away from it.
 

what we see here is the benefit of being a LAG. this guy could very well be a donkey getting lucky, or he could be a very good player.

a good LAG will take a line just like this guy did, and he'll get called because people are thinking 'this guy is a lucky donk.'

onyour line... when you get check raised twice you need to start thinking something bad might happen if you call.

Re: AK Early Tourney - Getting away from it.
 

What was the turn?

Re: AK Early Tourney - Getting away from it.
 

Turn was a brick, a trey if I remember.

By the time he check-raised me the 2nd time I had maybe 600 chips left and the pot was up to around 2k, by that time there wasnt much left for me to do.

The check-raise minimum on the flop I thought was simply him putting me on a pair of 10s or so and re-raising with his ace-x. But sadly, was not the case. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: AK Early Tourney - Getting away from it.
 

Maybe, check behind on the turn after being checkraised on the flop.

You almost have odds to call the checkraise on the turn even if you know what villain's hand is.

Re: AK Early Tourney - Getting away from it.
 

Good post, I have usually gone up in flames on hands like these also. I think I've made progress in being able to sometimes get away from them. Here's show I see it. I think my chip counts are right:

Now after he check raises you on the flop, you have ~1400 left and the pot is 1060. On the turn, he checks to you. You bet half your stack ( ~700) and he c/r's you all in....you are facing a $700 call with a pot of
3150 or so, or 4.5 / 1.

Although it's possible Villain is maniacal, he has given you two strong clues you are behind, the most important being the min raise on the flop. MInimum raises are a huge red flag to me. The turn c/r is also huge of course. He's not bluffing.

After the turn check raise, I would have to put him on A6, A7, 66, 77, 0r 67. ( 66 and 77 are the least likely, he'd probably slow play them). You are drawing really thin or dead right now.

I think he'd be calling down, not checkraising, with TPMK like AT, no?

If you fold you are still in reasonable shape. In this situation I have virtually always regretted calling. Take your medicine and fold. You were deep enough (barely) to get the info you needed to get out of this.

BTW I think you played it fine. If you checked behind on the turn and he put you all in on the river, it would be a tougher fold, as he looks like he might be bluffing.

BTW with his image, calling your PF raise is not horrible if he thinks he can stack you or BB. He closes the action after all, preflop. Making this call for 3% of his stack means he is getting about 15/1 on your stack. Not a horrible play against two players and closing the action. ( I wouldn't make it though ).

Re: AK Early Tourney - Getting away from it.
 

My question is really a broader question that applies to hold 'em.

Where is the line between weak tight/and correct play?

Maybe I should have shut down after the min check-raise on the flop, maybe I should have checked behind on the turn.

Maybe when you have KK and the flop come 78A you should make a CB, or maybe you should check fold.

Where is that line, especially since on the net you're getting moved a lot and you have to evaluate a lot of hands in a vacuum.

Edit: Yeah looking back my turn bet was better off being either a check or an all in, was half my stack. But heat of hte moment its tough to weigh everything sometimes.

I often find myself in a situation where I find out (too late) on the turn or the river that I probably dont have the best hand and end up pushing the rest of my chips in because the pot odds are just too good or I'd be down way too far otherwise. Gotta stop doing that. :P

As Dan Harrington says, you need to play smallball. Get in, and get out if you hit resistance.

Re: AK Early Tourney - Getting away from it.
 

I think when you go up against lag big stack early, you're stack is always in peril. That said I feel that a larger than average raise say 5-6 bb is more appropriate so if you get a caller before him the price isn't so good. Otherwise he could be inclined to see a flop with 67o. He was willing to limp in the first place why not punish him a little more for the privilege?