The toughness of games at absolute
 

I posted this here in MHSH because it seems a lot people who frequent this forum play at absolute.

I've put in a little under 30k hands there in the past month, 5/10 - 15/30 and am down about $2k for my efforts after this time. In my opinion, I'm running a little bad, but this is the worst 30k stretch I've ever experienced, and I believe it is due to the smaller (if positive at all)expectation I have in these games.

In my opinion, the games are often super tough. Would you agree with me on this? How would you compare these games to those at other sites? If anyone is willing to discuss there results at absolute I'd be interested to hear that as well.



Here's me baring my soul:

http://x51.xanga.com/299877f160d3122.../b15846935.jpg

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

Wow. The end looks like megatilt!

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wow. The end looks like megatilt!

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think so. It is hard to lose that much in such a short time even if you tried.

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

The absolute games are pretty tough. There are usually a few SH prop sharks. I would stay away from them.

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

I've only played 5/10 and lower there. But at 5/10, I have seen many tables where the stats for the entire table are quite TAGish, like 24/17. I have also noticed that many of the 5/10 players are multitabling at higher levels simultaneously.

Games seem much softer at 3/6, on the other hand.

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

[ QUOTE ]
The absolute games are pretty tough.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really?

Compliments of PokerGeek
Absolute Limit Hold'em Ring - $10/$20 Stakes (3 handed)

Preflop: Button raises, Small blind folds, Kurosh calls

Flop: (4.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Kurosh checks, Button bets, Kurosh raises, Button raises, Kurosh raises, Button calls

Turn: (7.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Kurosh bets, Button raises, Kurosh calls

River: (11.75 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Kurosh checks, Button bets, Kurosh calls

Final Pot: $243

Results below:
Button has K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (One pair, kings)
Kurosh does not show T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

Kurosh doesn't fold. Doesn't mean the games aren't tough.

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

[ QUOTE ]
Kurosh doesn't fold. Doesn't mean the games aren't tough.

[/ QUOTE ]


I thought the only tough games were 25/50 and 75/150. 15/30 is reasonably tough but beatable, whereas 5/10 and 10/20 are filled with really bad LAGs IMO.

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

1) I have been playing badly the past few days.
2) You will be 3-bet on that turn most of the time.
3) The only street I don't like is the river.

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

Have you spent much time at 5/10? I usually find it tougher than 10/20 and 15/30. I can honestly say I've never encountered a worse 5/10 game anywhere in the world.

I have not played 25/50 or 75/150 though, so I can't really argue with you.

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

[ QUOTE ]
Kurosh doesn't fold. Doesn't mean the games aren't tough.

[/ QUOTE ]

Trust me, the games are great [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to Dean [Qc Qs]
x - Folds
y - Folds
Geormiet - Raises $15 to $20
Dean - Raises $20 to $30
Geormiet - Raises $20 to $40
Dean - Calls $10
*** FLOP *** [4d 9d 7c]
Geormiet - Bets $10
Dean - Raises $20 to $20
Geormiet - Raises $20 to $30
Dean - Calls $10
*** TURN *** [4d 9d 7c] [10s]
Geormiet - Bets $20
Dean - Raises $40 to $40
Geormiet - Calls $20
*** RIVER *** [4d 9d 7c 10s] [7s]
Geormiet - Checks
Dean - Bets $20
Geormiet - Raises $40 to $40
Dean - Calls $20
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Geormiet - Shows [7d Qd] (Three of a kind, sevens)
Dean - Mucks

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

I think the river call is good but why cap the flop? If villain is laggy I definitely prefer to let him keep the lead.

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

Because I get 3-bet by overcards a lot of the time. I don't want these overcards to check behind on the turn and I'd rather do this and lead than gaybet the turn. It prevents a better hand from raising the turn sometimes. When I do have a good hand, I get to bet-3bet the turn. After I do this a couple times, people stop 3-betting the flop with overcards and I have an easier time playing.

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

This was expert play, on every street.

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wow. The end looks like megatilt!

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think so. It is hard to lose that much in such a short time even if you tried.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't tell if this is serious or not. I don't think losing 100BB is all that hard. I play a lower variance style and still have these types of swings in both directions close to daily.

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wow. The end looks like megatilt!

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think so. It is hard to lose that much in such a short time even if you tried.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't tell if this is serious or not. I don't think losing 100BB is all that hard. I play a lower variance style and still have these types of swings in both directions close to daily.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I guess I phrased what I meant wrong. I meant that this could easily happen do to simple variance, and that tilting is probably not the reason for a drastic drop like that.

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

I lost 75BB in 80 hands yesterday. It happens.

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

I dropped almost 200bb in a day on ap at 25/50 playing 3-4 handed and HU. Do I think the games are tough? yeah. Unbeatable? No. Lots of variance? For sure.

-Brad

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The absolute games are pretty tough.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really?

Compliments of PokerGeek
Absolute Limit Hold'em Ring - $10/$20 Stakes (3 handed)

Preflop: Button raises, Small blind folds, Kurosh calls

Flop: (4.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Kurosh checks, Button bets, Kurosh raises, Button raises, Kurosh raises, Button calls

Turn: (7.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Kurosh bets, Button raises, Kurosh calls

River: (11.75 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Kurosh checks, Button bets, Kurosh calls

Final Pot: $243

Results below:
Button has K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (One pair, kings)
Kurosh does not show T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

how could this river call be less than a 1BB mistake? how?

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

I can only speak for the 25-50 game, but it is bad most of the time except for when it's really really good. Basically if there's a name you don't recognize, it's worth taking a look.

But it goes without saying that the reason to play Absolute is for rakeback/bonus whoring, which is the best out there AFAIK.

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

Hey guys I heard of this new poker room called party poker. They have these 10-20 games, I dont know if youve heard of them, but they are pretty soft. Just a headsup.

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

I love this thread as it has reinforced that I should not return to Absolute. I deposited and played 15/30 and 25/50 about two months ago - quickly dropped a few thousand, and decided there just weren't juicy enough games to waste the time. Seeing that all these regular posters play there is not making me rethink my Absolute boycott :P

-DeathDonkey

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The absolute games are pretty tough.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really?

Compliments of PokerGeek
Absolute Limit Hold'em Ring - $10/$20 Stakes (3 handed)

Preflop: Button raises, Small blind folds, Kurosh calls

Flop: (4.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Kurosh checks, Button bets, Kurosh raises, Button raises, Kurosh raises, Button calls

Turn: (7.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Kurosh bets, Button raises, Kurosh calls

River: (11.75 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Kurosh checks, Button bets, Kurosh calls

Final Pot: $243

Results below:
Button has K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (One pair, kings)
Kurosh does not show T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

how could this river call be less than a 1BB mistake? how?

[/ QUOTE ]Less than a 1BB mistake? You think there is zero chance I am ahead?

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

I play 5/10 at Absolute, and today I saw the first loose-passive player in a week.. The tables are like 30/20, full with LAGs who fold the flop when you hit it [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Moving to party very soon..

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

A few of the players I hate at absolute:

any2willdo4u
yoggi bear
puccininy
hat rin
kimbola


I wonder how many of these are reading this forum.

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

It's not a 1 bb mistake. The play looks worse in a vacuum.

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

[ QUOTE ]
I play 5/10 at Absolute, and today I saw the first loose-passive player in a week.. The tables are like 30/20, full with LAGs who fold the flop when you hit it [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Moving to party very soon..

[/ QUOTE ]

Very good description. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

Ah, the age old question: choose nice rakeback deals or juicy games.

I believe this was one of the topics covered in the Lincoln/Douglas debates.

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

hat rin is pretty retarded HU from a few sessions I've seen.

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

These players aren't necessarily world class, I just hate them all and want them to go on 600BB downswings.

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

A lot of those players are on my fish list.

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ah, the age old question: choose nice rakeback deals or juicy games.

I believe this was one of the topics covered in the Lincoln/Douglas debates.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

you are on my fish list

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The absolute games are pretty tough.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really?

Compliments of PokerGeek
Absolute Limit Hold'em Ring - $10/$20 Stakes (3 handed)

Preflop: Button raises, Small blind folds, Kurosh calls

Flop: (4.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Kurosh checks, Button bets, Kurosh raises, Button raises, Kurosh raises, Button calls

Turn: (7.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Kurosh bets, Button raises, Kurosh calls

River: (11.75 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Kurosh checks, Button bets, Kurosh calls

Final Pot: $243

Results below:
Button has K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (One pair, kings)
Kurosh does not show T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

how could this river call be less than a 1BB mistake? how?

[/ QUOTE ]Less than a 1BB mistake? You think there is zero chance I am ahead?

[/ QUOTE ]

against some people its a 1bb mistake.

against some people its a 0bb mistake (i.e. +EV)

without any reads its probably a mistake but not a full bb one at all

seeing kurosh play first hand id be valu betting way way worse than KK in that spot. gotta tighten your game up man.

Barron

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

mine too, especially yogi bear [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

rake-free games are a lot more useful at the low limits. at the higher limits, you lose any game selection, you probably feel somewhat obligated to earn a big rakeback check from them (I'd imagine baronzeus pulls in 10k+ a month in rakeback [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]), and the rake isn't that big to begin with. at 5/10 you are gaining about 1.9 BB/100 compared to 25% RB Party. at 10/20 it's around 1.35. at 25/50 it's around .66 compared to 20/40 on Party. so the benefit gets exponentially smaller. you guys say the 5/10 games suck. can they be worth 1.9 BB/100 less? also it seems like very few are winning serious money on there. maybe that's because baronzeus is taking it all

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

actually if u truly are "rake-free" on AP the 5-10 puts u at 2.5 to 3bb per 100. This of course is playing 6max games and such, its worse if u play 9 handed. So u have slightly tougher games (no one is world class or anything and a more than a decent amount of players suck postflop still) but u are automatically a 2.5-3bb winner, sometimes more if u play 2-4 handed a lot. really though, I think once u get past 10/20 its best to just head over to stars or Party. You will want to have more game selection for 15/30 and beyond.

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

Come on these games aren't THAT hard. Almost every game I'm playing has 1 player thats good, one who is too tight and sucks postflop, and 1 super lagtard or 1 super loose passive. Good seat position and decent game selection is all that's required. There are some games that are absolutely horrible there but so what? How hard is it to jump games or just stop playing for 15mins do the dishes and come back when some new players show up? This isn't a problem with AP it's a problem with all medium sized sites.

If the fish goes bust and you butt heads with the remaining 2 players who happen to be the best players at that limit then you really can't complain about running bad or tough games.

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

[ QUOTE ]
but u are automatically a 2.5-3bb winner

[/ QUOTE ]


come on. reread that [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] no guarantee someone can beat the game, even rake free

Re: The toughness of games at absolute
 

Those 1.9 and 1.2 bb handicaps are a pretty big deal. At 5/10, i think you won't find soft enough games online to make up for that much. But you're almost certainly right about 25/50.

25% at party? But I thought....ok i'll IM you.