Home Game Guilt
 

Anyone ever have this feeling?

I never feel guilty winning online, and have only felt guilty winning at a casino once.

But playing in a home game with the same people about once a week has me feeling a bit guilty. I have known all the players since high school, though not close friends of mine, I feel kind of bad winning. There are 2 guys who lose everytime they play, one will drop $2-300 the other has lost up to 800 a few times. Its gotten to the point where I will even review hands with them and tell them what they should have done differently (when they ask).

Am I alone in these feelings

Re: Home Game Guilt
 

for the amount of money you are playign for in this case, no. Because they know what they are getting into, and there has to be an expected level of play with that kind of money. If it was $20 every time and it was someone's gas money, that may be different, but this seems to be a more serious game then that.

Bring some beer, it will help you play worse, and make everyone happy (and also everyone else play worse)

also, I kept reading the title as "Home game GUILD"...

Re: Home Game Guilt
 

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Am I alone in these feelings

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Not at all.

I took up poker during my freshman year at Cornell, and we had a regular game on our hall in my dorm.

A few of the players were decent -- (one, in fact, set up the game to try to take all of our money [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]) -- but I quickly joined the ranks of the one or two people who had most of the chips at the end.

I never felt bad winning against the decent/good players, but there were a few regulars at the game who would donate, rebuy, and donate again. I'd probably walk away with $30-$60 profit on any given night of this $5 or $10 buy-in game with 30BB stacks.

Sure, it got me into poker, and I had some more spending money to play with... but something didn't sit right about going and knocking on everyone's door (with a group), getting them to come to the study lounge and play poker, and then quickly putting their $10+ in my pocket every day.

Yes, yes, I know it's their money and it's their decision to play, but it doesn't mean you can't think about it.

Re: Home Game Guilt
 

Dammit I wish I woulda done that in my dorms...

Re: Home Game Guilt
 

"Its gotten to the point where I will even review hands with them and tell them what they should have done differently (when they ask)."

Bring them over on a special night for a training/strategy session (maybe include bankroll mgmt) Teach them how to play so they aren't chum.

Re: Home Game Guilt
 

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Bring them over on a special night for a training/strategy session

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But then I run the risk of alienating people, and I dont want to come off as if Im trying to tell people I am better than them. Also, they do generally have fun playing, so I dont want to ruin that for them.
1 or 2 have been known to drop 5-10 thousand in a 3 day trip to the casinos (playing BJ), a substantial amount of money for them. So In general they take it in stride when they lose, but I still get a feeling of guilt [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Home Game Guilt
 

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Also, they do generally have fun playing

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Well, that's the important thing. You could recommend some reading (I just turned a beginner in our home game on to GSIH) and I think it's generous of you to offer some additional tips/coaching (we will usually discuss a few hands that have played in our game for the benefit of the beginners in the group).

I don't think you should feel out-and-out guilty, though. They are obviously aware of the stakes, of how they are doing, etc. If they are enjoying themselves, then that's the important thing.

Re: Home Game Guilt
 

Yes. I dominate my home games ($10-$20 buy-in, but many reloads... usually $200 pot for 7-8 people) and feel guilty when I win. I feel especially guilty when I play with one certain kid: his name is Dave and he is one of the nicest people I have ever known. He is AWFUL at poker and loses every time (mostly because he is painfully shy so he hates raising because it puts attention on himself). Oh, and did I mention he is going to West Point? Yeah, taking money from a future officer in the US Military and defender of our nation doesn't sit so right with me.

That said, I need gas money.

Re: Home Game Guilt
 

Be mindful of projecting your motivations on to other people. People don't play for the same reasons you do.

I have some habitual donators at my weekly home game. These are all friends, and the stakes are not big enough to hurt anyone that badly. My only worry is that they go on a long enough losing streak that they think about dropping out of the game. The following comments are of course based on my experience, and YMMV.

I have realized that they regard every hand as a lottery ticket, with greater or lesser chances of winning the jackpot. They will stay in with a gutshot regardless of pot odds, in order to have a chance to win the pot. Any application of pot odds is done in the grossest terms - such as "The pot is big, I have to call", or "That bet is too high, I fold". There is certainly nothing like knowing a gutshot is 10 to 1 and using that knowledge in deciding what to do.

We play dealer's choice, and the weakest players almost invariably select Omaha-8. I recently figured out why - it lets them stay in the game longer, and it awards two pots for the price of one. They don't think they have any advantage at O/8, they just like winning pots, and more pots = better.

The other day we played a mixed game tournament, and I noticed that in the third rotation, playing Stud, the players were folding much more readily than usual for just one bet. It was four-handed and I kind of wondered why they had gotten more cautious when I thought they should have opened up. Then one of the players said something to the effect that people weren't willing to stay without a hand for $150, unlike in the first round when the bet size was $25. The fact that the $150 was at that stage a smaller percentage of their stacks than the $25 was at the start didn't seem to matter. It was the absolute size of the bet that mattered. This in a tournament, where the chips have no cash value. I found it a very revealing comment.

I've strayed a bit, but bottom line is, what your friends are looking for when they play may be to have fun and drag a few pots (the longer the odds the better), without much regard for the final result. Admittedly the size of the losses is greater (in absolute terms) than those that occur at my home game, but if they're not losing their rent money/child support/other essentials, then it's just the price of entertainment to many casual players.

Re: Home Game Guilt
 

I sympathize, too. I routinely beat the game I play (for MUCH lower stakes- $70 win for a seven-man tourney), but the players at the game have made it clear they don't like it when I mention the odds, etc. I'm not overbearing about it (at least, I think I'm not) and it usually stems from guilt after taking someone who has no business holding hole cards. But hey, if they are comfortable losing it, that's their fault. There are plenty of books out there; hell, that's how I improved from the fish I once once to the amphibian I now am. Mammaldom, here I come!

Re: Home Game Guilt
 

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Bring them over on a special night for a training/strategy session

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But then I run the risk of alienating people, and I dont want to come off as if Im trying to tell people I am better than them. Also, they do generally have fun playing, so I dont want to ruin that for them.
1 or 2 have been known to drop 5-10 thousand in a 3 day trip to the casinos (playing BJ), a substantial amount of money for them. So In general they take it in stride when they lose, but I still get a feeling of guilt [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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If you really want to help them, you might want to refer them to Gambler's Anonymous.

Re: Home Game Guilt
 

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Oh, and did I mention he is going to West Point?

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Beat him like the knob he is. He's gotta get used to it.

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Home Game Guilt
 

How much do they make per week?

Take it from there.

If they make 2k - 4k/week, I'd feel okay with this.

if they make 1k/week or less, I'd stop inviting them.

Re: Home Game Guilt
 

they both make in the 100k area i think

Re: Home Game Guilt
 

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they both make in the 100k area i think

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Then $300/week isn't too bad for them, $15k/year. However, I don't know them. I don't think 'teaching' them is going to help though.

You have to identify if they have a problem with gambling. If so, I'd not invite them back. If not, I'd still feel a little bad, but could play if they wanted to play.

Re: Home Game Guilt
 

at one time i felt that way, but we played such low stakes it wasn't a big deal IMO. it was entertaining for all, but i might feel a little guilty playing for the stakes you play for.

Re: Home Game Guilt
 

Start drinking and playing the maniac role. In my home game, which we play every week, I went for 6-7 months without ever having a losing session. The others were that bad. I started feeling bad about it AND some of the players stopped coming. So, I started loosening up almost to the point of recklessness, gambling more and drinking. Basically, I decided to separate the game from my normal game and treat it as a fun social event. I started to see much more variance in my results. I still come out a winner 3/4 times, but I have a few huge losses here and there, which I don't mind (they are offset by some huge wins and the stakes aren't all that high). The game has become more popular and fun for the other players now because I am creating so much action, and everyone wants to get in there and gamble to take their shots at me.

Just be careful not to let your maniac play leak into your regular game.

Re: Home Game Guilt
 

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Start drinking and playing the maniac role. In my home game, which we play every week, I went for 6-7 months without ever having a losing session. The others were that bad. I started feeling bad about it AND some of the players stopped coming. So, I started loosening up almost to the point of recklessness, gambling more and drinking. Basically, I decided to separate the game from my normal game and treat it as a fun social event. I started to see much more variance in my results. I still come out a winner 3/4 times, but I have a few huge losses here and there, which I don't mind (they are offset by some huge wins and the stakes aren't all that high). The game has become more popular and fun for the other players now because I am creating so much action, and everyone wants to get in there and gamble to take their shots at me.

Just be careful not to let your maniac play leak into your regular game.

[/ QUOTE ]this is his regular game

Re: Home Game Guilt
 

hey dv

if they are old enough to make decisions to play high stakes home game poker, then you shouldnt have a problem with this. im quite confident that the other players in my game would have no second thoughts when they win. they do know that i play online frequently so it is not like i am hiding my edge.

Re: Home Game Guilt
 

I play in a monthly home game tourney (either $50 or $60 buy in) and, in the 6 months we've been playing, I've finished 1st twice, 2nd three times and out of the money once. I don't feel an ounce of guilt because I'm playing with other adults who know what they're risking when they post their buy in. The same players usually bust out early and the same players usually end up in the money. Feeling guilty for winning at poker makes about as much sense to me as feeling regret for doing a good job at work.

JMHO