Chaos in New Orleans
 

Yesterday, there was some discussion about how authorities should handle the looting situation.

Many posters excoriated those who believed that drastic measures should have been taken to prevent looting.

So much for abstractions. In the real world, we now can see how this 'hands off' policy regarding looters is playing out.

Look at the blogs from people inside New Orleans. Reports of murders, rapes, rape-murders, arson, armed gangs of roving thugs, assaults on EMT's and rescue workers, and shootings are rampant across the blogosphere.

For those hand-wringers with the delicate sensibilities who were vocal in advocating a kinder, gentler approach to looting - welcome to the Real World.

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

Very grim situation in New Orleans as more reports come in. Quite a bit of violence. As I wrote in an earlier post I don't see how they can pump that much water out of the city anytime soon (months). I'm actually hoping someone can explain to me how my take is wrong headed.

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

That situation is dire and they need military presence ASAP.

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

They are sending special forces into Charity Hospital to deal with looters

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

That is good news. Hadn't heard that yet.

Unrest Intensifies at Superdome Shelter
 

Not to have too many threads on this I'll try to keep my info in this one. Ugly, ugly and I don't think I've ever witnessed anything like this in the U.S. in my lifetime. Hopefully the situation is not as dire as I believe it to be:



Unrest Intensifies at Superdome Shelter

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

DL winamp from www.winamp.com

Use this URL http://216.22.26.45:8002/listen.pls

NO National Guard Scanner

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

"The word is that in Jefferson Parish and Orleans, FEMA has "bugged out." They haven't brought supplies in.

THE REAL MILITARY IS NOW FLOWING IN. National Guard is being replaced before our eyes."

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

[ QUOTE ]
For those hand-wringers with the delicate sensibilities who were vocal in advocating a kinder, gentler approach to looting - welcome to the Real World.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who said that? Seriously.

I STILL don't think people deserve to be murdered for looting. You claiming some sort of victory because of the current situation is very sad, and I'm wondering if you think not murdering people is a "delicate sensibility."

Again, thank god (or whoever) people like you don't have any real power. If you did, this country would no longer need a constitution or laws. If someone gets out of line, just kill them!

Oh, "Real World" shouldn't be capitalized unless you're talking about a show on MTV.

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

People are dying because aid cannot reach them because they are being shot at. The looters are in effect killing folks, they should be neutralized

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

[ QUOTE ]
People are dying because aid cannot reach them because they are being shot at. The looters are in effect killing folks, they should be neutralized

[/ QUOTE ]

Neutralized is a far cry from murdered.

You can try to justify it to me all you like, but neither one of us are going to come even close to changing the other's mind.

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

[ QUOTE ]
Neutralized is a far cry from murdered.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stop using words you don't understand. Murder is what the thugs in the city are doing to their victims. Stopping them with deadly force is known as justifiable homicide.

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

Stop talking about things you don't understand.
Stop making blanket statements that you seem to feel apply to everyone who is looting.
Stop advocating death to those who only steal.

"Justifiable" seems to be used rather loosely around here.
It would be murder in the case of people who are just looting, and no twisting of words will change that.

I have no problem with anyone defending themselves or the public from armed thugs who are acting threatening. However, this is different from the majority of people who are looting. It's an important distinction.

But who am I kidding? It's much easier for some of you to think all of these people are faceless and acting exactly the same.

wow this reporter is really dumb
 

I'm watching the former Presidents being interviewed and I have to say the reporter conducting the interview is asking some rather stupid questions or both former President Clinton and President Bush. It's almost as if she is unaware that they are former and not current Presidents.

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

Just curious, but how are people trapped in a city with no electricity busily updating their blogs?

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

Most ISPs and many who run servers keep their own backup generating equipment, and it's quite common to use satellite Internet for redundancy. In an emergency, Internet hubs are much like the ham radio operators of the past.

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

Quite a few companies have their own generators as well

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

[ QUOTE ]
Look at the blogs from people inside New Orleans. Reports of murders, rapes, rape-murders, arson, armed gangs of roving thugs, assaults on EMT's and rescue workers, and shootings are rampant across the blogosphere.


[/ QUOTE ]

can you post some links to these blogs.

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

In the other thread, Sheetwise tries to equate defending your own home/possession (deadly force allowable under LA law) wit police just shooting people on sight that were lotting. Clearly an invalide comparison.

In this thread, he tries to make looters=violent gangs that are assaulting people. Again not the same. I agree with a lot his politics and generally his reasoning is pretty good, but his bloodlust is blinding him here.

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

Depending on the timeline...Quite a few of the looters have looted weapons and are now shooting at rescue helos, the National Guard, and whatever/whomever they please. FEMA has had to withdraw due to the violence.

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

>>I STILL don't think people deserve to be murdered for looting. <<

Under the circumstances, this remark seems overwrought and hysterical.

The point of showing force to prevent looting - deadly force if necessary - isn't about "murdering" people. It's about preventing lawlessness and anarchy from escalating to unmanageable proportions, which is exactly what occurred here.

How many innocents are being raped, murdered, and assaulted by these roving gangs because action wasn't taken earlier?

I have no doubt that you are a goodhearted person. However, the real world often doesn't conform to the way we believe the world 'should' be.

Those who have some life-experience under their belts understand this very well. Those with less experience, or those that have been sheltered - naturally resist being disillusioned and have difficulty reconciling their notions with reality.

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

Thursday, September 01, 2005



Oakwood mall on fire

Looters set fire to Oakwood Shopping Center in Terrytown today.

The fire was reported at 12:56 p.m., and firefighters fought the blaze for more than an hour before giving up, said Bryan Adams of the Terrytown Volunteer Fire Department.

"There's just no water and the fire was out of hand,'' an emotional Adams said, adding that crews had to fight the blaze with one hose and water from a canal. "I've lived in this communitiy all my life --45 years. It's tough.''

Adams said the fire was intentionally set in multiple locations by people who apparently went in to loot the mall. Authorities found a ladder on the side of a building and a vent ripped off the roof allowed suspects to gain access, he said.

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

[ QUOTE ]
FEMA has had to withdraw due to the violence.

[/ QUOTE ]

Funny, as I just heard the FEMA director say the complete opposite.

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

[ QUOTE ]

Those who have some life-experience under their belts understand this very well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for making assumptions about my life. It's much easier to dismiss everything I say by attempting to discredit me than actually dealing with the reality of what I'm saying.

You're not fooling anyone.

I could just as easily say you don't have enough "life-experience" to discredit your opinions, but I won't stoop quite that low. I'll leave such things to you guys.

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

[ QUOTE ]
I STILL don't think people deserve to be murdered for looting.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is not murder. It's not unlawful and its not done with premeditated malice.

[ QUOTE ]
Again, thank god (or whoever) people like you don't have any real power. If you did, this country would no longer need a constitution or laws. If someone gets out of line, just kill them!

[/ QUOTE ]

That is almost as ignorant as something Cyrus would write. The Constitution is torn apart everyday by our Liberal politicians. They stop at nothing to destroy everything it stands for. It's not about killing people for dissent either, its about stopping people from committing horrible crimes.

The Constitution was the framework for our government. It's goal was to LIMIT the power of the Federal Government. The writers of the Constitution feared tyranny. All the Liberals want is more Federal power. They WANT a tyranny, under the guise of equality.

A Liberals idea of equality is making everyone equally miserable.

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

>>Thanks for making assumptions about my life. It's much easier to dismiss everything I say by attempting to discredit me than actually dealing with the reality of what I'm saying. <<

You are the one who has made the assumption - you assumed that my remarks were directed to you in particular. However, from your reaction it seems that I struck a tender nerve.

In any case, I have a suggestion that I will direct toward you directly - please don't take this the wrong way, it's just an observation. From your posts, it seems that you are highly emotional as far as this issue goes, for whatever reason. Perhaps if you make an effort to be more objective, your you could make a better analysis if your judgment isn't clouded by strong feelings and emotion.

Just a thought.

Regards, Zipo

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

Perhaps I thought it was directed towards me because it was? Your post was directed towards me in every way a post can be. You replied to me, and talked about me personally in said reply.

Nice try, though. Weaseling out of your stance is kind of funny in the end.

You want to discuss issues? Fine. But don't ever act as if you know my life or who I am.

EDIT -

Am I emotional about people advocating more violence which won't solve anything?
Yes.

Am I emotional about people advocating the death of others?
Yes.

Can I still remain objective about my own opinions and the topic at hand?
Yes.

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

I'm still not a liberal.

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm still not a liberal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't say you were.

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I STILL don't think people deserve to be murdered for looting.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is not murder. It's not unlawful and its not done with premeditated malice.

[ QUOTE ]
Again, thank god (or whoever) people like you don't have any real power. If you did, this country would no longer need a constitution or laws. If someone gets out of line, just kill them!

[/ QUOTE ]

That is almost as ignorant as something Cyrus would write. The Constitution is torn apart everyday by our Liberal politicians. They stop at nothing to destroy everything it stands for. It's not about killing people for dissent either, its about stopping people from committing horrible crimes.

The Constitution was the framework for our government. It's goal was to LIMIT the power of the Federal Government. The writers of the Constitution feared tyranny. All the Liberals want is more Federal power. They WANT a tyranny, under the guise of equality.

A Liberals idea of equality is making everyone equally miserable.

[/ QUOTE ]

You wouldn't agree that some of the principles put on this document in the 1780's are a little arcane nowadays? I don't want government involved in every aspect of our lives, and you can't think most liberals actually do. Sometimes, as twisted as it is, only the government has the resources and knowhow to solve certain problems. If the constitution were never interpreted liberally in 200+ years, I wonder if we'd have made it this far as a nation.

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

[ QUOTE ]
... but his bloodlust is blinding him here.

[/ QUOTE ]

No bloodlust. I believe shoot-on-sight should be a stated policy. To make the policy work, you need to be willing to carry it out. No reasonable person would expect an officer to shoot before asking an offender to halt -- and no reasonable looter would not jhalt if he believed the officer would shoot. It's simply publicly declaring that the city will not put up with the crap we're seeing now. Eventually, I believe, they will make this policy.

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

>> But don't ever act as if you know my life or who I am. <<

LOL - your highly charged emotional responses tell me everything I need to know about who you are.

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

[ QUOTE ]
>> But don't ever act as if you know my life or who I am. <<

LOL - your highly charged emotional responses tell me everything I need to know about who you are.

[/ QUOTE ]

And your transparent attempts to discredit me and ignore the real issues tells me all I need to know about who you are

Well, it doesn't tell me everything about you, but it does tell me that you aren't really worth more of my valuable thought. One thing it doesn't tell me about is your "life- experiences."

I would never be foolish enough to claim that I knew what someone's entire life was like after reading a few posts of theirs on a message board.

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

[ QUOTE ]
Am I emotional about people advocating more violence which won't solve anything?

[/ QUOTE ]

Violence frequently solves problems. All acts are not morally equivalent. There is a difference between murder and homicide -- it's known as intent.

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Am I emotional about people advocating more violence which won't solve anything?

[/ QUOTE ]

Violence frequently solves problems. All acts are not morally equivalent. There is a difference between murder and homicide -- it's known as intent.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you using murder as a verb or a noun? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
Murder: To kill brutally or inhumanly.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is the definiton I have been using.
If it's not the same as yours, that's just the way it goes.

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

[ QUOTE ]
You wouldn't agree that some of the principles put on this document in the 1780's are a little arcane nowadays?

[/ QUOTE ]

The only things I can think of are the fact that Senators are not popularly elected, equal rights are not gauranteed to everyone regardless of race/sex, slavery is not outlawed... That's all I can think of right now.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't want government involved in every aspect of our lives, and you can't think most liberals actually do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most liberal citizens probably don't. I cannot say the same about most liberal politicians.

[ QUOTE ]
Sometimes, as twisted as it is, only the government has the resources and knowhow to solve certain problems.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, and they are granted the power in the Constitution to deal with just about every one of those problems. However, they have REALLY overstepped their bounds.

[ QUOTE ]
If the constitution were never interpreted liberally in 200+ years, I wonder if we'd have made it this far as a nation.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think we would have made it farther.

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

mur·der (mûrdr)
n.
The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice. Dictionary.com

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

>>And your transparent attempts to discredit me and ignore the real issues tells me all I need to know about who you are <<

I haven't discredited you. I merely pointed out that you have discredited your 'analysis' by your highly emotional responses.

Of course, I am not ducking any issue. In this thread (and in earlier threads before the reports of widespread violence in NO emerged) I merely pointed out that by failing to curb mass looting - with use of deadly force if necessary - then the violence was destined to escalate into mass chaos, anarchy and an orgy of rape and murder would ensue.

Factually, my analysis was dead on insofar as it was borne out by subsequent events in NO. This is beyond dispute to any objective, rational observer.

Re: Chaos in New Orleans
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is beyond dispute to any objective, rational observer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again with the discrediting.

"Anyone who doesn't agree with what I said is wrong because of their own inability to be objective or rational."

That's right, I see through you as if you were the glass on my front door.