My TruePoker WSOP 120K Hands Challenge - Final Update
 

Hi All!

I was asked by several to post a final update/my stats/thoughts, so here it is.

I haven't played online poker since completing this challenge (except for ten minutes when I logged in to play in TruePoker's 5K HU challenge I qualified for.) I may play tonight for the first time in earnest or then again I may not.

From a winrate standpoint, this 120K hands marathon was a failure. However, on alot of other fronts I feel it was a big success.

First from the winrate viewpoint, I finished the challenge losing $ 306.00. Far from what I would have hoped it to be. I thought when I started this challenge that I was not going to beat the game at an substantial rate, but I honestly felt I would end in postive territory. (My goal was to be up about 2K at the end of this challenge.) I can make alot of excuses for being a slight loser for an extended amount of play and you might not want to hear them all, but I think many of the reasons are valid.

First off, 120K hands in basically 39 days is not a good plan to maximize one's win rate. There was just simply too many times I played tired, played when I didn't want to, or played in less than favorable conditions. The less than favorable conditions I am speaking of is sometimes I found myself on $ 5/$10 tables with a flop seen percentage of 18%. Playing in shorthanded games, many times with only one or two opponents. Mixing NL games in with other different limit games at the same time. And these things were all happening with 8 tables going on at once.

My mistakes went up dramatically which cost me quite a bit of money. I'm talking about mistakes like raising with 4K, mistaking it for AK. (did it twice) My most common mistake was to think spades were clubs or vice versa. I also made the incorrect play a bunch of times, that is folding instead of betting or raising, betting or raising instead of checking or folding. These mistakes occurred due to the speed I was playing with and playing tired. To put it simply, there is no way I can play 120K hands in that amount of time and play something which even resembles decent poker. I guess looking back maybe I should be glad I didn't lose even more. With that saying that, if I would subtract out my last two weekends of play, I would have finished up over 2K, but then again I would still be trying to complete this challenge.

The success:

Realizing a dream is pretty big, and it will be great to play in the WSOP Main Event no matter what happens. TruePoker says the package is worth in the range of 13K. On top of that I can add in the value of my True points which stand at 59,473. Their value in cash is $ 594.00 or I could take a three day Vegas vacation for two for 50K points and cash the remaining points for $ 94.00. Or, I am just 527 points away from a cruise for two.

I count the support I received from this forum (which was tremendous) definitely in the success column. Without it, I think I still would have completed this challenge, but it would have been a much more difficult task. Posting on here about the challenge and then hearing your feedback and support was defintely therapuetic. One of the most exciting moments of this challenge was when 8 of the 9 players sitting at hand 120K indicated they were there sweating me! (Of course, I'm sure the $ 300.00 table bonus didn't hurt neither)

A personal goal of mine was to complete this challenge by June 15th, so it goes in the success column, be it a small one. I did not want to be still working on this thing on June 29th.

Even though my winrate sucked, completing the challenge in the amount of time I did made it more valuable for me. I played a total of 297 hours in 39 days an average of 404 hands per hour. (discounting the 3 days where I only got to play 24 hands) Counting the value of the WSOP entry and the paid cost of the trip, the value of True Points and minus my losings makes the net worth of this $ 13,288.00. An average of $ 44.74 an hour. Assuming I played exclusively $3/$6 over these 297 hours at my longest documented win rate of 1.6 BB/100 and I averaged 300 hands per hour, (more reasonable for me) I would have earned $ 28.80 an hour. With those assumptions, it means the challenge was a plus $ 4,752.00 for me.

Finally, the biggest success of all to me was that I was able to prove that poker sites will negotiate for the play of a high volume player by offering them special incentives. A big thank you to David at TruePoker for making it happen.

An interesting side note, Empire Poker called me yesterday to ask why I haven't been playing there lately and what they could do to make their poker playing experience better. Unfortunately, I was not home to take the call or I would have offered up some suggestions.

Finally, something else that was not known about this challenge until now. When I was negotiating with TruePoker about them offering me this challenge, at one point I was feeling a little uncertain if it was going to happen or not. I sent an email to Party explaining I used to be a high volume player at their site and that I was negotiating with another poker site for a WSOP entry in exchange for playing a high number of hands in a short time period. I asked them if they would be interested in earning my business back with such a challenge. I sent this of to anyone and everyone at Party. You know what kind of response I got back? Nothing. Nada. Zip! Once again, kudos to TruePoker for not only listening and responding, but also making it happen!

Once again thanks to everyone for all the support! I hope I can post about a successful WSOP trip!

Re: My TruePoker WSOP 120K Hands Challenge - Final Update
 

so wait what was the challenge they gave you? link?

Re: My TruePoker WSOP 120K Hands Challenge - Final Update
 

[ QUOTE ]
Assuming I played exclusively $3/$6 over these 297 hours at my longest documented win rate of 1.6 BB/100 and I averaged 300 hands per hour, (more reasonable for me) I would have earned $ 28.80 an hour. With those assumptions, it means the challenge was a plus $ 4,752.00 for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you lose over 120,000 hands and you think you have a 1.6bb/100 win rate at $3/6?

Nice assumption

Re: My TruePoker WSOP 120K Hands Challenge - Final Update
 

Congrats man. You may have come out a little behind in terms of money in the end, but the fact that you completed this challenge definitely outweighs that.

I still don't know how you did it. I go on cruise control (like mistaking 4K for AK and raising when I should fold) after about 4 hours. How you kept up that crazy pace for that long I have no idea. But I guess the end reward more than made up for the time and effort you put in.

Congrats again.

Re: My TruePoker WSOP 120K Hands Challenge - Final Update
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Assuming I played exclusively $3/$6 over these 297 hours at my longest documented win rate of 1.6 BB/100 and I averaged 300 hands per hour, (more reasonable for me) I would have earned $ 28.80 an hour. With those assumptions, it means the challenge was a plus $ 4,752.00 for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you lose over 120,000 hands and you think you have a 1.6bb/100 win rate at $3/6?

Nice assumption

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he's just assuming the high end to show the value of the challenge. Since it's likely the win right is probably lower than that one assumed, the challenge was worth (at a minimum) the value he gave.

Re: My TruePoker WSOP 120K Hands Challenge - Final Update
 

Sorry Sponger, but I just don't think that you get it.

O'Doyles (or anyone else's) win rate over this kind of challenge bears little resemblance to what they normally win.

To have a decent win rate, what will any good pro or book tell you?

-Don't play when you are tired.
-Don't play when you are upset or on tilt.
-Don't play at a faster pace than you are comfortable with
-Use table selection to pick your spots.
-Be careful when mixing limits or genres (limit and NL) so that you don't misclick
-Don't play when you are ill.
-Don't play when you are burned out.

I can assure you that anyone on this kind of quest violates most if not all of these precepts, often on a daily basis. Playing to get this kind of volume of hands in almost guarentees that you will play in conditions that will ruin your win rate.

And you don't seem to acknowledge the two really important good things that came out of this:

O'Doyle got a huge "rakeback" from his play far greater than his prospective win rate would have been.

It has been proven that we can get online sites to make deals for a high volume of play. We don't have to rely on "back alley affilliate deals" on sites like Party to get some value out of the site for our play. I think that is a major accomplishment, and one that will continue to bear fruit after the WSOP is over.

Shauna

Re: My TruePoker WSOP 120K Hands Challenge - Final Update
 

Congrats on the whole challenge.

If Mr. Truepoker CEO would let me try this next year (giving me more time, like, from January) I would jump on it. I could do 120K hands in 6 months I think.

Re: My TruePoker WSOP 120K Hands Challenge - Final Update
 

Again. great effort and thanks.

"An interesting side note, Empire Poker called me yesterday to ask why I haven't been playing there lately and what they could do to make their poker playing experience better."

That is interesting. Do they do that on a regular basis ? If so, do they ever actually change anything ?

By the way, we are beta testing in play money one often-heard change request on Truepoker: We will be slowing down the card dealing once a hand betting goes all-in and there will be no more action.

A Four color deck is also coming.

In the interest of attracting higher volume play, we also are currently offering a promotion to re-stock the pond from our play money ranks.

Truepoker CEO

Re: My TruePoker WSOP 120K Hands Challenge - Final Update
 

We would certainly consider something along those lines.

Let us look this past promo over carefully first ... We have some time to consider how to replicate something like this, if it makes sense down the road.

Truepoker CEO

Re: My TruePoker WSOP 120K Hands Challenge - Final Update
 

[ QUOTE ]
so wait what was the challenge they gave you? link?

[/ QUOTE ]

Original Challenge Link

Re: My TruePoker WSOP 120K Hands Challenge - Final Update
 

[ QUOTE ]

I still don't know how you did it. I go on cruise control (like mistaking 4K for AK and raising when I should fold) after about 4 hours.


[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks,

And yes, I think this was one of my biggest problems -- staying focused. Very difficult to concentrate after your on your 5000 + hand. (Those weekends were killers!)

Re: My TruePoker WSOP 120K Hands Challenge - Final Update
 

Do you have any idea how much rake you paid over this challenge?

Re: My TruePoker WSOP 120K Hands Challenge - Final Update
 

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry Sponger, but I just don't think that you get it.

O'Doyles (or anyone else's) win rate over this kind of challenge bears little resemblance to what they normally win.

To have a decent win rate, what will any good pro or book tell you?

-Don't play when you are tired.
-Don't play when you are upset or on tilt.
-Don't play at a faster pace than you are comfortable with
-Use table selection to pick your spots.
-Be careful when mixing limits or genres (limit and NL) so that you don't misclick
-Don't play when you are ill.
-Don't play when you are burned out.

I can assure you that anyone on this kind of quest violates most if not all of these precepts, often on a daily basis. Playing to get this kind of volume of hands in almost guarentees that you will play in conditions that will ruin your win rate.

And you don't seem to acknowledge the two really important good things that came out of this:

O'Doyle got a huge "rakeback" from his play far greater than his prospective win rate would have been.

It has been proven that we can get online sites to make deals for a high volume of play. We don't have to rely on "back alley affilliate deals" on sites like Party to get some value out of the site for our play. I think that is a major accomplishment, and one that will continue to bear fruit after the WSOP is over.

Shauna

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Shauna,

Couldn't have said this better myself.. Thanks for taking up for me!

Re: My TruePoker WSOP 120K Hands Challenge - Final Update
 

[ QUOTE ]

"An interesting side note, Empire Poker called me yesterday to ask why I haven't been playing there lately and what they could do to make their poker playing experience better."

That is interesting. Do they do that on a regular basis ? If so, do they ever actually change anything ?

Truepoker CEO

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey David,

For me this was a first. But, then again, this is the first time I have just quit playing at their site for any extended period of time. I have played a fairly high volume with them over the past 18 months, so I guess it did get their attention that my play dropped to zero.

Evidently, they were not keeping up on my posts, but then again, maybe they were.

Re: My TruePoker WSOP 120K Hands Challenge - Final Update
 

Congrats Doyle, it's one hell of an accomplishment. In the early days of my career I played in the Lucy Jones Bonanza at party (this was the first one they did back when you had to play all night long and they only gave money to the top 20). After two days of pulling all nighters I pretty much didn't want to turn the computer on again (and quit after three days)...I can't imagine what it would have been like after 39.

Good luck at the WSOP...you've certainly earned it.

J

Re: My TruePoker WSOP 120K Hands Challenge - Final Update
 

Sponger, since you are smart enough to understand what O' Doyle meant, and the benefits he got from doing this challenge, your constant bashing on his posts just makes you look bitter. Sorry you can't go yourself.

Re: My TruePoker WSOP 120K Hands Challenge - Final Update
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do you have any idea how much rake you paid over this challenge?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not exactly. If we used an average of 12 cents a hand, that would relate to $ 14,400 in rake paid. However, I think that would be a high estimate for two reasons:

1. I believe TruePoker's rake structure is better than most sites.

2. 75% to 80% of my play was at $1/$2 and $25 NL. The rest was spread from $2/$4 to $5/$10 with a little $ 50 NL thrown in.

I think my estimate is high. Nonetheless, just looking at it from a rake perspective still makes the challenge look like a much better deal.

Re: My TruePoker WSOP 120K Hands Challenge - Final Update
 

I have also pulled an allnighter or two for Lucy.

Now, I would feel like an ass for whoring Lucy for $20, compared to a WSOP entry fee.

Re: My TruePoker WSOP 120K Hands Challenge - Final Update
 

odoyle,

1) congrats!

2) when i 1st saw that avartar, i thought it was a chicken/rooster [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

3) so truepoker doesnt offer rakeback like party, huh? you could have been swimming with 30% rakeback.

4) 1st hand at WSOP-> All-in BLIND [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

you'll get you face on TV for 15 sec of fame. and 15 zillion hrs of fame if you did that and go on to win the bracelet [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

5) Congrats again!

Re: My TruePoker WSOP 120K Hands Challenge - Final Update
 

You take the term grinder to another level and I mean that in a good way. Well done. I hope you cash huge in the big one and then you will have monetary compensation for your hard work. That would be awesome to hear some random story about you getting lucky and busting Chan or Negreanu or whatever. Good luck.

Re: My TruePoker WSOP 120K Hands Challenge - Final Update
 

Go to your room, the adults are talking here.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Assuming I played exclusively $3/$6 over these 297 hours at my longest documented win rate of 1.6 BB/100 and I averaged 300 hands per hour, (more reasonable for me) I would have earned $ 28.80 an hour. With those assumptions, it means the challenge was a plus $ 4,752.00 for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you lose over 120,000 hands and you think you have a 1.6bb/100 win rate at $3/6?

Nice assumption

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: My TruePoker WSOP 120K Hands Challenge - Final Update
 

[ QUOTE ]
Congrats Doyle, it's one hell of an accomplishment. In the early days of my career I played in the Lucy Jones Bonanza at party (this was the first one they did back when you had to play all night long and they only gave money to the top 20). After two days of pulling all nighters I pretty much didn't want to turn the computer on again (and quit after three days)...I can't imagine what it would have been like after 39.

Good luck at the WSOP...you've certainly earned it.

J

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks alot Jason,

I remember I did get tangled up with you playing HU one night duirng this challenge with seven other tables going. That probably cost me some bucks no doubt.

Re: My TruePoker WSOP 120K Hands Challenge - Final Update
 

when i 1st saw that avatar, i thought it was a chicken

I'm not choking it, am I?

Re: My TruePoker WSOP 120K Hands Challenge - Final Update
 

[ QUOTE ]
We would certainly consider something along those lines.

Let us look this past promo over carefully first ... We have some time to consider how to replicate something like this, if it makes sense down the road.

Truepoker CEO

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you'd get at least 1500 players giving it a shot...maybe 50% would complete it in 5 -6 months...dunno if it is +EV for Truepoker (probaly would be). I know I'd give it a whirl if requirements worked out to ~800 hands/day. (I am lazy)

I am curious about the total rake O'doyle generated during his quest though.