A study in fascist behaviour
 

Not just the NSA.

Re: A study in fascist behaviour
 

[ QUOTE ]
Not just the NSA.

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*************************Warning****************** **********

You are now on the NSA's watch list!!!!

Re: A study in fascist behaviour
 

I read that the other day, but the main question is whether it is a credible report or not, especially since it is more reminiscent of the Vietnam War era FBI and Mao doesn't really have any relevance to today's terrorist threats. In other words, find a major media outlet that repeated this story.

Si non e vero
 

Do you really doubt that library choices are being monitored? Only the other day, the relevant provisions of the PATRIOT act were extended.

And if someone is monitoring libraries and what books people are borrowing to read, isn't it natural that there will be an investigation when a book in the "watch list" is being borrowed?

This seems absolutely par for the course. A natural consequence of monitoring libraries, books and ideas.

Libertarians should be up in arms. But they are busy fighting for their right to hunt fowl.

Plucking petals
 

Unfortunately many of the self proclaimed, proud libertarians (and conservatives too, I am sad to report) on this forum have their heads filled with the 21st century version of the girl picking petals of a daisy that they have lost sight of the word LIBERTY.

Re: Plucking petals
 

Alot of us don't like the patriot act, but what do you want me to do. I didn't vote for Bush.

Re: Plucking petals
 

Yeah. I've been uncomfortable with the Patriot Act from the outset, and have written my reps more than once. Like you, I didn't vote for Bush in either '00 or '04. I wonder which libertarians on this board they see as supporting it?

Re: Plucking petals
 

When was asked if American will ever have facism, he said yes, we will call it democracy.

Re: Plucking petals
 

I'm still waiting for indpendent corroboration of that story by another media source. Found it yet?

Re: Plucking petals
 

No offense guys. I admit I wrote too hastily.

I see the words conservative and libertarian used by some (although not by Kurn and some others) and see support for various non-conservative activities by the administration and I am perplexed. Then they take anyone who dares point out that these are neither conservative policies (and I am talking about the Patriot act, the Iraq invasion, the fiscal insanity) but are infact un-American in principle and label the critics as naysayers or defeatists or liberals (a word that has been redefined by the republicans).

So, for those self confessed libertarians and conservatives who are against the foolishness emanating from the whitehouse -- my apologies. The rest of you well ....

Re: Plucking petals
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm still waiting for indpendent corroboration of that story by another media source. Found it yet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Irrelevent

Re: Plucking petals
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm still waiting for indpendent corroboration of that story by another media source. Found it yet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Irrelevent

[/ QUOTE ]

Liberal hacks all across America whose political opinions are based on emotions and utopian visions instead of logic, facts and realistic perceptions of long term consequences agree.

Re: Plucking petals
 

I have not looked and have no plans to do so and have no opinion on the veracity of the story.

What is interesting to me is the reaction from those who are a) willing to believe everything from certain sources and b) those who unwilling to believe anything from certain sources.

Re: Plucking petals
 

I am not unwilling to believe that particular source, just unwilling to believe any story that is not picked up by mulitple media sources which means they have vetted it. And canis isn't saying he is willing to believe all he reads, just that it wouldn't matter to him if such a story were fabricated in order to make a political point.

Re: Plucking petals
 

You arent going to make this thread about the source. Its about the fact that america is turning from a republic into a facist nation. Bush wants to be a dictator.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/12/20/9408/0642

Re: Plucking petals
 

I'm sure glad you don't exaggerate.

You keep avoiding the issue
 

It is a fact that the books you or any other American is borrowing from a public library (perhaps even a private library) are being monitored, along with a number of other activities.

Since this is a fact, it follows that the people who are doing the monitoring will investigate when something comes up on their radar -- and they get to define what's on the radar and what's not.

Part of the investigation might be asking the "suspect" some questions. As those guys supposedly did.

But even if that particularly story turns out to be totally untrue, the circumstances are there for the scenario to be played a thousand times. The most you can accuse those spooks of doing wrong is being very blatant about it!

Re: Plucking petals
 

Fascism and democracy are not mutually exclusive. It's quite possible to have a Fascist Democracy, all it requires is that a majority of citizens to be pro-fascist.

Re: Plucking petals
 

But what force could make the citizens accept fascism? Perhaps a charismatic leader.

Hitler was democratically elected you know.

Re: Plucking petals
 

kinda. i don't know if you can really call the circumstances of hitler's rise to power democratic.

Re: Plucking petals
 

[ QUOTE ]
But what force could make the citizens accept fascism? Perhaps a charismatic leader.

Hitler was democratically elected you know.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's been a while since I've looked into it, but I'm pretty sure Hitler was never elected. I think he lost the election but was appointed chancellor. Could be wrong.

Re: Plucking petals
 

Q: Was Hitler democratically elected as Chancellor of Germany in 1933?

A: Yes. Of course he was.

However, because the office of Chancellor was not filled by popular election, it might be more accurate to say that Hitler was constitutionally chosen to be the Chancellor of Germany, a democratic nation. The point is, there was nothing about Hitler's appointment as Chancellor (30 Jan. 1933) which violated the Constitution of Germany. President Hindenburg legally selected the leader of the largest party in Parliament to head up a coalition government. It has happened hundreds of times throughout history without being considered undemocratic.

Re: Plucking petals
 

Before you say 'yeah, but that system is not very democratic compared to ours', keep in mind that we only have two choices, which is one more than they had in communist russia.

Dont look far
 

[ QUOTE ]
But what force could make the citizens accept fascism? Perhaps a charismatic leader.

[/ QUOTE ]

Monitoring libaray books, tapping phone lines without due process, detention without lawyers or hearings.